Phakwilai Sahunalu — Over 20 years of intersex activism in urban and rural Thailand
This is the second in a six part series featuring interviews with Thai lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex (LGBTI) activists and allies on their motivations, the issues that concern them most, their views on progress to-date and looking ahead.
Phakwilai Sahunalu (Kai) has dedicated almost 30 years of his life towards working for social development as a non-governmental organization (NGO) worker and intersex/LGBT activist in both urban and rural parts of Thailand. With a broad set of skills and knowledge, Kai has organized trainings and seminars, especially among youths, with a goal of developing awareness and understanding of human rights and LGBTI rights in his province. Currently residing in his hometown of Surin, he is also a farmer, agriculturist, a village head and the community focal point for a range of different local issues.
How do you define or classify someone as intersex? Is medical intervention necessary?
Kai: I will answer from my own experience as an intersex person. There are about 70 conditions that can be used to define intersex. The most common trait would be a person having a combination of male and female genitals, chromosomes and/or hormones. The characteristics can be both congenital and developed later in life. The latter would be my case.
Whether or not an intersex person needs medical attention, I assume it varies case by case. I personally have not seen a doctor myself because I feel totally comfortable with my intersexuality. Another reason for not having sought medical intervention would be the availability of professionals who specialize in this field, if there are any at all. Although sometimes it causes me pain, it has been tolerable. In my case, operation may not be necessary. I can tell you, intersex is not a problem, but the way it is medically treated might be.
I am happy not having to choose one gender over another. Actually, I wish not to be identified as either a man or a woman at all, were it to be an option in my country.
How familiar are Thai people, both in urban and rural areas, with intersex?
Kai: Really it depends on what kind of audience I am directing the messages at. However, generally speaking, I find that intersex is not something that is totally new or unusual to Thai society.
Among the activists or members of LGBTI communities whose knowledge is already strong with a decent notion of gender diversity, the “I” has only recently been recognized and included. The understanding of intersex among LGBTI communities is not yet in-depth. There are situations of misunderstanding that need correction. However, their open-minded attitudes never fail to make me sense the warmth and inclusion. They are becoming more interested and involved with intersex issues. It is going in the right direction.
For the general public, people in the city have to some extent come across intersex. They have heard about it in the media or seen it on the Internet. This is why with urban activism I feel more relaxed. The pressure is a lot less compared to rural settings where intersex has never ever been brought up. But being honest and realistic, it is still considered quite a strange and abnormal concept for people to process and comprehend.
The first time I introduced intersexuality to people in a rural area was eventful. The prospect of some human beings having two biological sexes was completely foreign to them. I saw a lot of questions in their eyes and faces. Out of curiosity, they asked several questions just to reassure themselves that what we were talking about was real.
“The first time I introduced intersexuality to people in a rural area was eventful. … Out of curiosity, they asked several questions just to reassure themselves that what we were talking about was real.”
Intersex has recently become a part of the LGBTI movement, why do you think the awareness is growing now?
Kai: This is because the data or information regarding intersex has been insufficient. Dating back to when I was experiencing this issue myself a few decades ago, there was no internet so the only way I could have access to any information was textbooks, which were not as helpful as expected. Intersex may appear as a small sub-branch in medical studies with a lot of terminology. There was nothing about intersex from the lens of human rights protection. I had a lot of questions but there were no answers. We cannot advocate for something if we do not have the facts to refer to or know what it is.
As a result of this issue not being widely discussed or written about, intersex people may not have the courage to come out, and instead they keep it a secret within themselves or, if lucky, at least are able to share with their families. Advocating for their rights is a distant thought. Some people might not even realize they have conditions that can be classified as intersex.
The fear of embarrassment and judgment also plays a compelling role. Some lock themselves up in the closet of shame. LGBT people are often able to be easily identified with a glance. People talk about it. But for intersex, it is different. Especially in Thai culture, any discussion involving genitals or sex characteristics is a taboo. Having said all that, now it is the time to make the lives of intersex people easier, healthier and happier.
“I had a lot of questions but there were no answers. We cannot advocate for something if we do not have the facts to refer to or know what it is.”
Can you please explain how intersex rights are violated? What are the forms of discrimination intersex people commonly encounter?
Kai: I will start with the right since birth. It is common for intersex babies to have their gender assigned by the doctor who determines it by the most distinct and complete organ at the time. This later causes problems. For example, the person may physically or emotionally develop into the opposite sex that was assigned.
There are also jokes that are not funny. With little respect, “Can I have a look?” and “Will you allow me to touch them?” are the most frequently asked questions we encounter. These are questions that people already know the answers to and should not be asked in the first place. I get this kind of verbal harassment all the time and I imagine other intersex people do too.
Sexual harassment is another form as well. Perpetrators wish to sexually experiment by seeking a sexual encounter with intersex people. It sounds harsh but it is very true. We see that this too happens to trans men and women. The past trauma I experienced leaves me with extreme anxiety and apprehensiveness. My concern in this regard is that intersex people tend to be doubly pressured and struggle to speak out or seek help.
Share with us the topics and techniques you use when raising the awareness of intersex.
Kai: I have just received a grant from American Jewish World Service (AJWS) that will help support my upcoming awareness-raising projects. The main topic focuses on gender diversity and fluidity. I aim to establish mutual understanding among LGBTI organizations, providing them an overview of what we are trying to achieve, sharing best practices on how to overcome challenges and being clear about where each of us stands and supports each other as a strong collective network.
In terms of techniques to raise the awareness, I create safe spaces for both speakers and learners. It is also important that both parties feel connected to each other and the topic of discussion. The audience needs to be reminded of why the issues are worth taking into account, and the importance of changing attitudes and behaviours. When delivering a speech or training, I use myself as an example along with the theories I am explaining.
Choosing the audience also counts. My target groups are mostly from the young generation, especially in rural areas. Their minds are a blank slate that deserves to know everything beyond LGBT. The capacity building will have long-term and valuable impacts.
After evaluation, the results prove that young persons can relate themselves well to the issue. They have the confidence to express their identities and opinions and share their experience during discussion. Since gender and sexuality has been an avoided but relevant topic, these youths take it as an opportunity to explore and be part of the learning process. Living in a small town, they do not find it inappropriate, in fact they have been exchanging knowledge with their peers, families and teachers. Some of them have become part of LGBTI activities and initiate projects of their own.
“I create safe spaces for both speakers and learners. It is also important that both parties feel connected to each other and the topic of discussion. The audience needs to be reminded of why the issues are worth taking into account, and the importance of changing attitudes and behaviours.”
What are the policies or laws that you are trying to advance?
Kai: First of all, the policy and law makers need to come to the right understanding of intersex issues first in order to enact effective acts and protections.
I am advocating for gender-neutral laws that equally apply to all individuals rather than specifically men and women, which if achieved will benefit LGBTI communities as a whole. Our rights are subject to the laws. Thai laws specify that gender is based on the biological sex at birth or person’s genitalia and are not known for their gender equality. Of course, the interpretation can be vague for intersex. Where do we stand in legal terms? Which gender box do we belong to?
Being LGBTI in Asia is a regional programme aimed at addressing inequality, violence and discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity or intersex status, and promotes universal access to health and social services. For more information on Being LGBTI in Asia, visit: http://www.asia-pacific.undp.org/content/rbap/en/home/operations/projects/overview/being-lgbt-in-asia/.
Note: Using a preferred gender pronoun is one way of showing respect and acknowledging a person’s gender identity. Throughout this series, care has been taken to ensure that the preferred gender pronoun of interview subjects has been used.
