BitcoinBlog — The Interview

Bitcoin Insights — The interview by Christoph Bergmann and Philipp Hartmannsgruber about the Bitcoin Bundesverband at www.BitcoinBlog.de

Philipp J.A. Hartmannsgruber

Published in

Bitcoin Insights

6 min readAug 13, 2024

This issue features the interview between Christoph and myself:

„Our aim is to influence policy as the voice of the Bitcoin industry.“

Currently, the Bitcoin Federal Association is being founded. It aims to represent the interests of the Bitcoin industry in Germany. We spoke with the prospective chairman, Philipp Hartmannsgruber (33).

Hello, Philipp. What exactly is your title in the Bitcoin Federal Association?

There’s no official title yet as we are still in the founding phase. Along with Daniel Wingen, I am a co-founder and initiator. The board will be elected at the founding meeting on September 26, 2024, and I am running for chairman, currently the only candidate.

What makes you a suitable chairman?

I was active in the Blockchain Federal Association, the „Bundesblock,“ for four years, including two years and four months as a board member. During my studies in economics, I was the chairman of a stock exchange club. Since 2018, I’ve worked as an IT project manager, in finance, and with digital assets. For example, I applied for the crypto custody business license for a financial institution, led the development of a Bitcoin portal for VR Bank Bayern Mitte, and more.

That’s quite a lot in just a few years. How do you manage that?

Lots of work, little sleep.

How did you go from Bundesblock to founding the Bitcoin Association, from blockchain to Bitcoin?

I realized professionally that it’s good to specialize. Initially, I was involved with many cryptocurrencies, but the deeper I researched and thought about it, the clearer it became that Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency that makes sense. I am disappointed by blockchain technology; almost none of the promises have come true. The revolution of digital identities or the supply chain by blockchain has yet to materialize, to name two examples.

Has this also changed your view on money and life?

Definitely. Saving (in Bitcoin) became more important because I realized that saving is simultaneously an investment in Bitcoin. I invest a bit in Bitcoin every month, every week, and every hour, totaling around 75 percent of my current income.

Did it hurt today or yesterday when the price dropped significantly?

No, on the contrary! I was happy and bought more. The quicker and stronger the price drops, the faster I will become a wholecoiner.

You mean by „wholecoiner“ someone who has at least one whole Bitcoin. So, does the future chairman of the Bitcoin Association not yet own one whole Bitcoin?

No, unfortunately not. I lost the private key to Bitcoin I bought relatively early and hoped to find it during a move. Initially, I thought it was in a safe, handwritten, but it wasn’t there. However, it wasn’t a huge amount, a four-digit sum in euros.

Your association is replacing the old Bitcoin Federal Association, if I understand correctly?

There is a Bitcoin Federal Association e.V. that was founded in 2013/14 but has been inactive since 2018 and is currently being dissolved. We, as the Bitcoin Federal Association, are not replacing it but filling the void it leaves. We had hoped to reactivate the old association, but it failed, so we decided to start anew with a new focus.

What can be expected from the Bitcoin Federal Association?

In principle, we represent the interests of our members, who are typically companies involved with Bitcoin. Natural persons can also join but do not have a voting right.

Currently, we have 42 commitments from 25 companies and 17 individuals. Among the companies are, for example, 21Bitcoin from Austria, Blocksize GmbH, Munich International Mining, and 21 Energy. Notable individuals include Marc Friedrich, Alex von Frankenberg, and Joana Cotar.

How does one envision this representation?

When governments change or introduce laws, it affects companies. Unlike other industries, Bitcoin companies do not have a voice in this process. Our goal is to reach politics as the voice of the Bitcoin industry, for example, by publishing statements or engaging in direct conversations.

So you’re doing classic lobbying?

Yes, although lobbying often has a negative connotation, which it shouldn’t. Nevertheless, we prefer to talk about “representation of interests” rather than lobbying. We mostly provide information, as politicians are not experts, and this is often welcomed. But we also want to educate beyond politics and foster existing networks, strengthening the internal integration of the Bitcoin community.

What would be your idea of appropriate Bitcoin laws?

One must distinguish between my personal interests and those of the association that represents its members. There are many issues, such as mining or taxes. When using Bitcoin as a payment method, the taxation of holding gains is very cumbersome. Not taxing them at all would be unrealistic, but one could consider a tax exemption for payments up to 1000 euros, as is partly the case in the USA.

With mining, much education is needed, for example, to show that mining is already greener than many other industries and that strategically deployed miners can strengthen energy grids.

But often these are international laws. For example, the FATF (Financial Action Task Force) passed the Travel Rule, which then became EU law and finally national law. Is there any leeway here?

The implementation of EU rules often varies nationally. In Germany, for example, the BaFin (Federal Financial Supervisory Authority) is often stricter than others. This should be harmonized; it shouldn’t be harder to work with Bitcoin in Germany than in other EU countries. I have conducted conversations with BaFin in the past, also for mutual understanding on how we can assist them.

What is your vision of where Bitcoin is headed in the long term?

It depends on the time horizon. In the short term, meaning the next 10–20 years, not much will likely change, and the euro will continue to exist. In the medium term, however, the euro, like all fiat currencies, will fail. Then we will have another fiat currency as an interim step, and when that also fails, within the next 50–100 years, we will get a Bitcoin standard.

In the meantime, large nation-states will incorporate Bitcoin into their reserves. I see this negatively, as the state would then have more influence on Bitcoin than is beneficial. State and money should be separate.

What beneficial developments will Bitcoin bring to society?

People will better understand the value of money, they will save more, and we will lead a better, more sustainable life — moving away from unnecessary consumption towards sustainable enjoyment.

How can people get involved in the new Bitcoin Federal Association?

One can simply contact us through the website http://www.bitcoin-bundesverband.de or ask me directly. We welcome every new founding member, especially companies, and additional board candidates. Everyone is also welcome to support us operationally. We aim to be as transparent as possible (see our Website and X account), and since we are still in the process of being established, everyone can contribute.