The Dynamic Duo: Developer + Designer

Meet Jesse Majcher and Amanda Legge, a developer/designer team at Capital One in San Francisco. Jesse and Amanda spoke at SXSW about how the Capital One culture of full-on collaboration between developers and designers is impacting their work. As these kinds of professional interactions grow, this collaboration between developers and designers is actually helping them build better user experiences.

To figure out why it works, we sat down with both of them to get their perspectives in a quick interview.

Jesse, as a developer, you’ve worked with a lot of designers in your career. What’s the usual collaboration process with a designer?

Jesse (“J”), Developer: Before Capital One, what I was used to was basically no collaboration. It was a static relationship where the designers were off on their own; they just had a set of guidelines given to them from a manager. I would receive assets from them via email, with a zip file. There would be no style guide, no idea of distance between objects. It was all up to me to figure out the important details, like those design-related specs.

Jesse, what’s different about the collaboration between developers and designers at Capital One?

J: It’s a symbiotic relationship: very engaging, face-to-face. We’re working together and fleshing out ideas on the fly. It’s not a commandment — it’s not “this is what I want to see.” We figure it out together. We’re not just a cog in a wheel. The designers here are very open to getting [developers’] opinions. I actually have a say in the design of an application, and the end result is a more engaging experience for the customer.

Amanda, at your recent fireside chat panel at SXSW, you talked about taking a bootcamp class at Capital One called “CodePath.” Tell us about the CodePath class and the app you designed in it.

Amanda (“A”), Designer:
CodePath was a six-week iOS for designers bootcamp. I basically had no life, (laughs) but it was totally worth it. During the last two weeks we were divided into groups and we designed our own app. My group was a team of three, and we wanted to make an app that would give back to Capital One for letting us do this class because it was a life-changing experience. So we created this app called Munch that would hook designers up with other designers randomly at Capital One for lunch. You shake the phone and it says, “You’ve been matched up with this designer,” and then you go grab lunch together. In fact, we actually ended up using one of the animations for a consumer-facing app we created for Capital One.

Jesse, what do you think about a designer creating an app after a six-week boot camp for iOS?

J: I think it’s phenomenal. You’re inspired and you see that they can speak your language. I can speak as an engineer and they understand what I’m talking about. I can get really specific on certain frameworks. (Pause) I know some people could be threatened. Some engineers may feel that coders code and designers design, but you know, it saves time for the company and it saves developer hours. [Amanda] worked up a prototype of an animation and I actually used it. It gave me much better direction as opposed to just a design sketch. I think more designers should be working on the platform they’re designing for, to get a feel for it.

Amanda, how did this improve the way you two work together?

A: Well, the animation prototype that I handed off to Jesse in Xcode was only for iPhone 6. A real iOS developer would use a universal adaptive layout, but I didn’t learn that in my class. So Jesse circled back with me and we sat down. The process is awesome because I’m still learning even though I’m no longer in the CodePath class. Jesse and other developers are teaching me every day.

Amanda, what have you taught Jesse about design?

A: Last month, I set up a tutorial for developers on how to use Sketch so that they can figure out the margins, font sizes and types, groups, and shadows. Actually, this afternoon I’m doing a more advanced Sketch tutorial for all of the developers on the team, where I’ll go over specific techniques.

J: (Chiming in) We were able to jump into this application, which most of us did not have experience with as developers. She took an hour or two to get us up and running right away. We were able to understand where elements were lining up — on our own — instead of running back and forth asking questions. We were kind of amazed at how easy it was.

How important is being “open-minded” in this collaboration? What kinds of things do you have to be open to?

A: I think being open-minded is the most important thing. I don’t have all the answers. So when the developers come to me with suggestions, I have to be open to doing new things. It’s about always sharing and discovering new things, even if it isn’t related to the project. And we try to take the attitude that anything is possible.

J: I think engineers can have a “get off my lawn” approach when it comes to a designer working in their development environment. It’s important to be super open to criticism, and you have to be open to knowledge sharing. That’s been the big thing for me. It’s an iterative platform. We’re trying to create the best user experience for the customer.

Jesse, how has this collaboration impacted the user experience?

J: We have the ability to iterate and find hang-ups where we are losing engagement with our customers. We’re not just settling on something and assuming it’s the best idea for the customer. Our actual communication spawns these new ideas. For example, without that collaboration, we would not have come up with different prototypes for certain streams in our application for a recent project.

What advice would you give managers who want to get the best work out of their developer/designer team?

A: The developers should be included as early as possible. I think a lot of teams miss out because they think developers don’t have input, or it’s too late because the design is already done. Jesse and I talk about things from the very beginning.

J: Tell designers not to be afraid to prototype in our environment and be included in the actual engineering discussion. It creates a whole different appreciation for it. Designers should be encouraged to experiment in ways like that.

It’s clear that a symbiotic relationship between your developer and your designer can create better customer experiences, but it’s more than that. The result is a developer/designer team that knows how to speak each other’s language, anticipate each other’s needs, and bounce insightful ideas off each other. Two heads are definitely better than one, and the proof is in each product that this dynamic duo creates.

For more on APIs, open source, community events, and developer culture at Capital One, visit DevExchange, our one-stop developer portal. https://developer.capitalone.com/