Legislation from the ground up: AMA with Rep. Raul Grijalva (D, AZ), full transcript
On December 9th, 2020, Members-elect of the 117th Congress joined current members, staffers, technologists, scientists, academics, and advocates for the inaugural Tech, Science, and Data New Member Orientation Day, hosted by the First Branch Tech, Science and Data (TSD) cohort.
In the “Science” section of the day, Representative Raul Grijalva [D, AZ] shared the story of how the Environmental Justice for All Act came to be drafted in collaboration with stakeholders and frontline communities across the country.
For a summary and highlight video of this talk, please see here.
Melissa Dargan 0:06: We’re now going to move on to this next session with Congressman Raul Grijalva who represents Arizona’s seventh district. As chair of the Natural Resources Committee Chairman Grijalva has led efforts to bring traditionally underrepresented voices into the policymaking process. I’m going to turn it over to POPVOX co founder, Rachna Choudry to moderate. Rachna, handing over the virtual mic to you.
Rachna Choudhry 0:33: Thanks, Melissa. Chairman Grijalva, hello. So Chairman Grijalva is here because he and his committee pioneered a really new process of gathering feedback from individuals, environmental organizations, and local and community groups for their bill, the environmental justice for all act. And basically what they did was instead of drafting legislation, and then going outside the Beltway to get support from local community groups, they literally flipped the process around. And Chairman Grijalva and his staff got community groups who really understood the issues and who are living with the problems that the bill is trying to fix in their own communities to get involved in the first step. So Chairman Grijalva, my first question to you is, last year, in actually June 2019, I had the privilege of attending this huge convening that you put together of environmental justice organizations. And what really struck me there was that there were groups from all over the country, and not the groups that you usually expect to be at these events, but real local groups that were representing people that were experiencing a lot of the pain points that the bill was addressing, could you tell us about the thought process in convening these groups, and convening them even before drafting legislation?
Raul Grijalva 2:07: Thank you very much, Rachna, and you and Ms. Harris, I want to thank you for the opportunity to talk about this inclusive process that led to the creation of the Environmental Justice For All Act. I can genuinely say with, with all sincerity, that without POPVOX’s platform, that particular platform, our bill would not be where it is today. And the best example is back in 2014, I introduced an environmental justice bill. It didn’t have the buy in from the environmental justice community, and it languished because people didn’t feel invested in it. And even though I thought I wrote the perfect piece of legislation, I learned a lesson there — that the process, and particularly on a piece of legislation as delicate and sensitive as environmental justice issues are, that that we had to, we had to get the buy in, or we have to be inclusive at the beginning. And so the meeting in DC was a reflection, inviting these groups in, laying out the process we’re going to undertake, and then go from there. Principles were agreed to. And again, the platform, POPVOX, was essential in that it circulated the principles, came to consensus on it. And then from those principles, the actual writing of the legislation began, that legislation in its draft form went out on the platform again, and people responded to submit recommendations, and changes to the legislation were proposed. Many of them many, most of them, made it into the final draft. So at every step of the process, we had the input of our communities most affected by the legislation, and also the participation of the working group. And I think we have a stronger piece of legislation, national buy-in. And, and I think that an investment on the part of all these organizations that they had something to do with crafting this legislation was inclusive and transparent.
And that I hope that leaders learn from from our experience, I think the adaptability of this process from the ground up, legislating and policy development is, is something that could be a great utility for individual offices, as well as to committee efforts in Congress. And we’ve had a lot of inquiries, and sure that POPVOX has well, in the interest that this kind of inclusive process public processes has generated. So we’re happy with the product. And we’re happy with the process of that, it’s there. All of a sudden environmental justice issues were part of the discussion by the incoming president and vice president and his administration. It became, it’s been particularly apparent in the energy bill, other parts have been incorporated on other pieces of legislation. So we continued to push this forward. But it wouldn’t, we wouldn’t be in the position of having the attention and get that attention, a substantive effort from outside groups to try to implement some of what is in the Act. So it had to do with the fact that we had the kind of support outside of Washington early. And then the investment that this legislation was part of the creation of a community as opposed to me sitting in my office and writing legislation.
Rachna Choudhry 6:27: That was a really great summary of the whole process, from bringing together principles to drafting legislation, and then including local and community groups in the whole process. So initially, when you were at the convening, the first big step of pulling together all these organizations was to have a conversation about what those initial principles would look like, even before they became legislation. So what was the kind of response you got from advocates and community groups, when you and your staff first went to them to ask for, for being part of this process? You’ve done it a lot of times, but this time, it was distinctly different.
Raul Grijalva 7:14: I think there was a general wariness about it, that we would not actually implement what we thought the process should be, and what we were recommending as a process. It was well received, but somewhere in us, you have to understand that many of these communities have been led down the Primrose lane in the past, and that there’s no consequence. I mean, there’s no consequences that happened because of it. And so there, they have an absolute right to be wary, and to make sure that their buy in and their effort is going to mean something. I think once we had developed a level of trust, for lack of a better word, then everything else involved in the process began to work. But initially, there was some wariness — and trust is earned, it’s not automatically given, especially if you’ve been one of these organizations that has had to deal with environmental justice issues in their frontline communities. That wariness is justified.
Rachna Choudhry 8:28: And you also just, from working with you through POPVOX, you and your staff had a lot of transparency in the whole process. So it was open for everyone and everyone can read others’, other organizations’ comments and feedback and you had that transparency in the process.
Raul Grijalva 8:47: I think also, what that is, I think you’re pointing to a trust factor: that transparency. That I think that did more to develop the trust among everyone, than any other particular effort that we had in the process, I think that was key and you zeroed in. That helped me answer the question of how the trust could have been developed. And I think it’ll develop because there’s accountability and everybody’s in.
Rachna Choudhry 9:22: You’ve been doing this for a long time. Could you talk a little bit about why it’s so important to include diverse voices in the process more broadly as perhaps a takeaway for people that want to replicate something like that in different policy arenas?
Raul Grijalva 9:42: Congress needs some values — and in representing in a constituency and such, you know, when we get to Washington, that’s the urgency that we come there with. You know, having been here a while, there’s things that work towards making that not a constant priority. And I say that because it’s a pressure cooker bubble that we’re in in DC. And so any mechanism that keeps us connected is important. And this particular platform has proved to be essential, as far as I’m concerned — what I saw, what I experienced, is that it was always after the fact that you wanted to go get the buy in, and that way you didn’t have the public support, and the public will to proceed on pieces of legislation, simply because they weren’t involved, and they had no real investment in the issue. I think it’s a major piece as we go forward on the reconstruction, and rebuild in our nation once we deal with this pandemic, God willing, and come out of this dark period — I think that there’s a lesson to be learned about how you involve the people that have been most affected in helping carbe out how we build and how we recover. And and I think that principle of inclusion, and accountability serves so well, even if it’s difficult. Not all the feedback we got on your initial draft was was positive, especially around issues of cumulative effect and impact. Some were very insistent for that to be key to the legislation, and they were correct. So we’ve learned a lot from it, but I venture to say that acting on the instincts that we come to Congress with is a good place to start in keeping that connection. Home is essential, that environment — it’s not only about getting things done, it’s also about the security of knowing that you’re taking positions and promoting ideas that that your constituents really want. It’s a wonderful way to make sure that you understand the pulse.
Rachna Choudhry 12:30: That’s a great answer. And it segues into my last question (Melissa, I hope we have time for one more!): Is there any advice you would give to incoming lawmakers about this process, if they’re looking to replicate something like this? What advice would you give them?
Raul Grijalva 12:54: To talk with you folks! To look at what — you know, it’s public information, how how we got to the Environmental Justice For All Act, and why it has the level of support that it does across demographics, across communities — from coastal communities to, we just finished an online discussion with people in Appalachia regarding coal ash, and the issues there, and the list goes on. And so I think, looking at that is something.
Beyond that, the best advices is I would say that you can shape your office the way you want. And my colleague spoke formerly of the key positions chief of staff and scheduler, I cannot reiterate that enough. But I think that as you set up your offices, that public component, that engagement component, how you factor that in? I think it’s really important. We have the wherewithal now technologically to be able to do that, and do it expansively. And so I would urge you, I think that that’s so important, to not only keep you in contact, but to learn from within our own districts and outside our district. So there’s a great deal of talent and intelligence that can come to bear on pieces of legislation that you’re working on, or working on with others.
Rachna Choudhry 14:33: Thank you so much. It was truly a pleasure to work with you on this and with your staff as well. And thank you so much for being here.
