Interview: Liz Marshall, Director of Meat the Future
Today we are excited to interview Liz Marshall, the award-winning Canadian filmmaker and director of the upcoming Meat the Future film. Chronicling the birth of an industry, Meat the Future is a close-up and personal look at the growth of the cultured meat field in the United States and how its pioneers worked to develop a more sustainable way to produce meat. In particular, the documentary follows the field through the lens of Dr. Uma Valeti, the co-founder and CEO of cultured meat company Memphis Meats. Marshall’s previous works include the critically acclaimed documentary The Ghosts in Our Machine (2013).
Meat the Future will premiere on Hot Docs at Home on CBC on Thursday, May 7th. The documentary will be on CBC and GEM at 8pm ET and the Documentary Channel at 9pm ET
You began filming Meat the Future in 2016 at a time when the concept of growing animal products, like meat, directly from cells was novel. How did you hear about it, and what made you decide that this is something you wanted to make a documentary on?
I made a film called The Ghosts in Our Machine that was released in 2013, and it had a wide global trajectory. [That film] focuses largely on the use of animals for food, fashion, entertainment, and for biomedical research. I was looking for a solution-focused story, something I could really follow as an unfolding story.
I first learned about the concept of cellular agriculture in late 2015 or early 2016. And the light bulb for me went off immediately. I remember reading in the media in 2013 about the story of Mark Post’s [cultured meat] burger in London and was fascinated by it as well. And I thought, ‘Oh, this is really interesting.’
So, in 2016, I remember learning about the Memphis Meats’ meatball and reading about Uma Valeti. I contacted Bruce Friedrich, someone I had known for several years and had just co-founded the Good Food Institute, to learn more about and ask some questions about this emerging startup field and industry.
I was introduced to a few of the cellular agriculture companies in the US and was able to have phone conversations with several of the CEOS. When I spoke to Uma, it became clear that he was very open, very receptive to the idea of a character-driven documentary about the birth of the industry. And I was really intrigued by his personal story.
In April 2016, I flew down to the [San Francisco] Bay Area from Toronto, and I filmed with a small crew based in California. I was able to do a full day of shooting and got to know Uma, and it just went from there. You have to have a tingle, you need to feel excited about a story before you sink your teeth into the development phase of making a feature-length documentary because it’s going to be several years of your life. [With Uma Velati,] it was just the right thing to do.
The light bulb wasn’t going off for most people. It went off for me and it was going off for certain people, but a lot of people were just, I think, afraid of the topic in some way. It was a hard sell, but I persevered, and, thankfully, Canada’s Documentary Channel got behind me in 2017 and really helped make it a reality, financially speaking. I continued following the story until the fall of 2019.
Having followed the field for several years, using your own words, how would you describe the field of cellular agriculture and cultured meat to someone?
I try to make it as simple as possible. It’s real meat, grown and harvested from animal cells, and it does not require the breeding and confinement and resources of conventional industrial animal agriculture.
It is a concept that could really change the world for animals — for animal welfare, animal protection, for the environment, and for human health.
I’m also aware and careful to not make any claims, because, not only would that be irresponsible, but this is not regulated and on the market, yet.
We’re in the early genesis phase of something that could be so game-changing, and that is so exciting as a concept.
We really enjoyed being able to see the facilities and Memphis Meats continuous growth. What were your thoughts while being there and seeing all this high-tech equipment, the cells themselves, and everything that is being used to produce meat in a different way?
I was always just so curious and fascinated and was always learning. I also love the fact that the Memphis Meats team, at the beginning, was just a handful of young, really smart people that I can relate to, that are just like you and I, but are super geeks!
They were wearing Converse runners and wanted to change the world. I just love their motivation and their ethos. It always felt accessible and relatable to me, and I wanted the film to portray that. I wanted the film to show that these are people that are relatable, and they really have committed themselves wholeheartedly to something that they feel is going to change the world for the better.
What I’m really happy about with the film is the access that I had to follow a story at the genesis phase of the birth of an industry. That for me is the most exciting aspect of the film.
Your documentary follows the growth of the field through the lens of Dr. Uma Valeti, the CEO and co-founder of Memphis Meats. How have you found their journey to be one of the leading companies in the field?
It was so exciting, because there was no way to know that would have happened. There was no guarantee.
Of course, we could not have predicted that Uma would become a leading figure and that the company would become a leader in the field. That story kept unfolded along the way, and it just was increasingly exciting to follow the development.
I always look at it like it’s sort of a microcosm. The birth of an industry is also the birth of the pioneer, the birth of the young visionaries and influencers. They are on the world stage now along with the birth of the industry.
Was there something about Memphis Meats’ journey that surprised you or weren’t expecting?
I think there was a surprise at every turn, especially how rapid their growth was.
For example, in 2016, [cultured meat] was such a novel idea, and it was such an uphill struggle for the company and for the emerging industry. That was also reflected in me trying to get the film funded. It was just an upward battle trying to get people to believe and understand that this is a great story about how meat gets to the plate in the future.
I think the greatest surprise has been how quickly [the field has] arrived at this endpoint, where mainstream media and the general public are reporting on it, talking about it, and are becoming aware of it.
Also, the regulatory story. Even though the regulatory framework is not clearly established yet, the evolution of that storyline is also, from my understanding, very surprising to see how quickly it has come together.
But also, I must say that another surprise is, as Uma puts it, the ‘Big Tent’. How the stakeholders in this field are from every sort of every tier and levels of the industries. You have the meat industry itself investing in this, you have billionaire influencers investing in this, and then you have the grassroots and smaller investors.
That part of the story is really of interest to me because it’s not a David and Goliath story. It’s much more nuanced and interesting. It’s not a black-and-white story. It’s not about the startups that want to disrupt the entire system of meat making. They actually want to work with the meat industry to transform the system. I find the nuances and intricacies of that story line to be very interesting.
It was fascinating to see how the documentary covers the regulatory ideas of the field, such as attending the October 2018 joint regulatory meeting about cell-cultured meat in the US. What do you think that meeting means for the field going forward?
Yeah, that was a really exciting moment for the cultured meat industry. And we were excited to be in the room.
All of our different shoots couldn’t make it into a 90-minute documentary, but we were also in the room during the first congressional briefing in Washington D.C. and during the first FDA public hearing meeting before the joint USDA-FDA public meeting.
It pushed the regulatory story to a point that gave the industry confidence. It gave Memphis Meats confidence that this is inevitable and that it’s just a matter of when, it’s not a matter of if.
Public perception is going to be a major obstacle for the field moving forward, and documentaries like Meat the Future will help promote the field and explain why scientists and researchers are working to produce food directly from cells. What do you think the field will need to do more of to improve public perceptions and attitudes?
I think that it needs to become a topic that is accessible, and that people are able to learn about it in an accessible way. The more you can learn about it [will help promote the field].
I think this documentary has a key function in the next year, because our goal is to engage a lot of people. If you have a private company that is engaged in producing the meat, you can’t just learn from them because that’s a private company. You need to learn from third-party sources. The media and documentaries and non-profits, they play an important role in all of this.
We are currently putting together a team for an impact campaign that will launch in 2021. We’re fundraising for that this year to make that possible. An impact campaign allows for an educational component for a robust outreach and digital web-related exposure and interactivity with the public. Our goal is to have as much exposure globally as possible and foster education, awareness, and dialogue around the key issues and themes that are present in the film.
Being able to go through the different stages of growth of a pioneering company to the inaugural Good Food Conference is a unique experience. How have you seen the field evolve?
Another thing that surprised us is the growth of the industry worldwide. There are so many startups now around the globe! When I first started following the story in 2016, it was a very novel idea and very few startups. In fact, Memphis Meats was the first company in the United States, and now, I can’t keep up with the count!
It’s in Asia, it’s in the Middle East to Europe. It’s in North America. The field is just growing so much.
At the inaugural Good Food Conference in 2018, it was exciting to see so many stakeholders coming together. It was a great opportunity to interview people and to witness another benchmark. It was the inaugural Good Food Conference too that brought together a lot of important people in that space. I know that the Good Food Conference in 2019 would have been even bigger and that it had a lot of presence from the conventional meat industry as well. I think it’s just continuing to grow and bring people together to work together on the birth of this industry.
What do you think is next for cellular agriculture? What do you think the field still needs to address and, from your experience, what needs to happen?
Well, there needs to be a clear regulatory framework so that these startups can develop their products to go to market.
There also needs to be an enormous amount of funding for this to move forward, because everyone needs to start scaling up to create that paradigm shift. And that monumental leap forward requires a huge amount of funding.
It’s really exciting that Memphis Meats raised $161 million in January. They have a clear path to bring it to market. And with the coronavirus pandemic, it’s more relevant now. In light of the current public health crisis, it could prevent future health pandemics like COVID-19. We know that growing meat from cells does not require breeding, confinement, and slaughter of animals. So that limits the risk to public health.
Having followed Memphis Meats for those few years, were you able to have any samples that were shown in the documentary? If so, can you describe it?
My crew and I were able to sample their poultry. We were able to have the samples that were shown in the documentary. It tasted exactly how I remember meat to taste. Exactly.
I don’t eat meat, so it was an interesting moment for me. I don’t have an ethical issue with eating [cultured meat] at all. But I just don’t eat [conventional] meat, and I haven’t for decades for ethical reasons.
So would I become a [cultured] meat eater on a regular basis once it’s on the market? No, because I don’t need to eat meat for myself personally, but I have no ethical issues with it whatsoever and I’m so excited for it.
What are your thoughts about the future of food in Canada? How can Canada become another leader in the cellular agriculture field from the lessons you saw in the US?
There needs to be a similar trajectory to take place here that has happened in the US and other countries around the world. The Canadian government needs to see the value and the future in this. The meat industry needs to invest in it. And we need way more startups and innovators and researchers and pioneers in Canada.
I don’t see Canada as being any different. I just think that Canada is behind some other countries that have taken leadership [in cellular agriculture].
This is the moment. We can’t wait. There needs to be a complete shift in the same way we are looking at a shift towards clean energy. We need to look at a shift towards this new way of producing meat. The amount of subsidy that is given to conventional meat producers needs to be looked at, whether it be climate-related or from issues of sustainability and health. That is also in focus right now with the coronavirus pandemic around the subject of zoonotic diseases that are caused by interactions between animals and people. So now is the time.
This is a very timely and urgent moment to be ushering the idea of this industry into the world, because the world needs solutions that are at our fingertips. This is just one solution, and there are many solutions. Plant-based is another solution. There’s all kinds of solutions.
Based on these experiences, what would you say to Canadians or students that want to enter the cellular agriculture field?
I think there’s a future in it. It’s a field that needs scientists, researchers, and innovators that want to change the world. It needs visionaries to move it forward so that it will continue to grow.
I think the younger generations, Millennials and Generation Z, are really open to the concept [of cultured meat]. They are really aware of the environmental implications and the treatment of animals. They care about these things in a deep profound way, and they’re also looking at the sustainability of their own future.
This is a perfect field for them to explore and consider in my view.
Having done one film on cellular agriculture, do you imagine yourself working on it again for another film?
Absolutely. It’s a possibility.
I was embedded for three and a half years, so I have a lot of knowledge and the relationships. I’m really fascinated by what the next phase will be.
Meat the Future is about the genesis phase of the field. It’s about the emergence of the pioneers and influencers that are moving the needle forward. The next days will be about scaling up and getting to market. That’s the next evolutionary chapter in the unfolding story.
I’m not actively pursuing it, but I think I’m very well positioned.
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Meat the Future will premiere on Hot Docs at Home on CBC on Thursday, May 7th.The documentary will be on CBC and GEM at 8pm ET and the Documentary Channel at 9pm ET.
Click here to check out our Live Q&A Session with Liz Marshall and Dr. Eric Schulze from Memphis Meats.
This interview was conducted and edited by Ahmed Khan, co-founder of Cellular Agriculture Canada and founder of CellAgri.
Cellular Agriculture Canada is a nationwide interdisciplinary organization with the mission to support and promote the cellular agriculture industry in Canada. Subscribe to CAC newsletter at www.cellag.ca to get the latest updates about the field and our upcoming projects straight to your inbox. You can also follow us on Twitter and Instagram.
