Family History
Intellectually Curious Catholicism
How Faith informs my family’s journey
I have always been skeptical about everything. I never blindly believed anything without sufficient facts. Even the slightest of discrepancies makes me research until the error is corrected. I would not call it perfectionism — because I know I am nowhere near perfect. Once I started researching my family history, I realized that my desire for truth was rooted in something deeper.
Every Sunday, I would try to convince my dad to not make us go to Sunday Mass. Mass bored me, and I never saw the point in listening to someone talk for hours on end. So, one day, when I became fed up of being answered with “because I said so,” I began to always search for discrepancies as to why I should not have to go. But to my dismay, my dad always had a way to prove me wrong. He used logic to justify his faith.
In the article, “Are Catholics Afraid to Question?”, Randall Smith fights back against the argument that religion fades when faced by science. Instead, Smith believes that religion answer different kinds of questions. In response to Why do human beings love?, The scientist would say “Here is how the brain circuitry works.” Science answers the questions about what causes something or how it causes something but does not necessarily answer why something is. Therefore, Smith proposes that because Catholics focus on less materialistic and more thought-based questions, Catholicism is built upon the basis of near impossible questions to answer.
Smith’s argument goes hand in hand with my own experience, not only in religion but also in school. While many kids in school focus solely on how to find the answer to any given problem, I have often found myself asking the question on why the answer is the answer. While these seem like very similar questions, the why question ends up creating a much greater understanding of the underlying concept rather than understanding only one specific solution.
Catholic Roots in Rochester
My dad’s family has always been two things: raised Catholic and raised in Rochester, New York. I am not sure why this is, or what is even that special about Rochester, but ever since my dad’s side of the family moved from Ireland to Rochester in the 1800s, only the rare few have left the city. My dad, however, left Rochester a couple of times to live elsewhere with his family, but did end up going a Catholic high school in Rochester. He went to mass every Sunday, and even attended mass when he attended the University of Notre Dame.
When the Diocese of Rochester was first established, Rochester was a very diverse place with each ethnic group wanting their own parishes. Its first bishop was Bernard J. McQuaid (1823–1909). Being the founding president of Seton Hall University, McQuaid was a large proponent of education. McQuaid utilized the benefits of Catholicism in education, and by not only building parishes but also by focusing equally on building schools, McQuaid was able to create a basic sense of unity among Catholic Americans in Rochester.
My goal in this project is to try to learn how my father views Catholicism’s effects on himself, and gain insight as to why this tradition has been carried on for so long. However, I specifically want to know how his parent’s divorce affected him, and what he learned from that given divorce is frowned upon by Catholicism. Finally, I want to see if my father has identified a sense of intellectual curiosity similar to my own form as a result of Catholicism.
The Post-Mass Donut: An Oral History Interview
Given my research goals, my intentions with this project, and the fact that my dad was already going to be in Asheville for 2019 Christ School Father-Son weekend, I decided to interview my dad. We had not planned on participating in any of the field games/activities on campus but instead decided we would rather just spend the weekend hanging out together so the interview fit perfectly into our schedules. So on Saturday, we started by going out to lunch and watching some college football. Afterwards, we started the interview.
It was somewhat awkward at first given that I never ask my dad questions in an interview format but the awkwardness dissipated quickly. My dad described his childhood in greater detail than he normally would and provided information as to how Rochester itself affected him. Additionally, he went into detail as to his what his thought process was which allowed me to not only compare our two thought processes but also gave me a lens with which to envision his childhood experience.
Oral History Transcript
Please tell me your full name and date of birth.
John Michael Slattery II, July 10th, 1968
Where did you grow up?
Many places, but Pittsford, New York, in Rochester. Near New York would be what I would call my hometown.
How was growing up in Rochester different?
Quiet. I didn’t realize how different it was until I moved from Rochester to Indialantic, Florida. So, Rochester was smaller, friendlier, and had four seasons with snow in the winter.
Then I move to Indialantic, Florida, and the values and culture were just totally different. It was junior high, and the kids would complain about having to wear flip-flops to school, but they had to wear shoes. It was a rule. Yeah, I would have classmates who would complain “Dude, I can’t be in class. The waves are 3ft and glassy.” Not exactly something I’d ever heard before in Rochester, New York. So, very different. Conservative colonial upstate New York to Fast Times at Ridgemont High. That’s an old movie reference. In a beach area where kids have a hard time understanding why they have to go to school; drugs washing up on shore. Yeah, good times.
Do you feel like your parents being Catholic affected you?
Yeah, that influenced my upbringing. The part about being Catholic that really resonates with me is tradition. Like Christmas, Easter, holidays, some of the traditions of the church. To me it’s about the belief system but also about tradition.
Did you go to mass every Sunday during your childhood?
Not every Sunday, but almost every Sunday. My dad had this routine where we would get up, and we would go to early Mass on Sundays in a town called Minden. And the church was a small church, until they build a bigger one, and we would always go to this little donut shop across the street from the church. After Mass we would get to pick out whatever donut we wanted, and we would eat the donut on the way home.
Did you want to go to mass or did your parents make you?
It was something my parents had us do and you just got used to it.
Do you think your parents picked Catholicism for you or did you do that yourself?
No, I did it. They picked it for me in the early years, for sure. But no one can take your religious beliefs you have to own them. And so that’s what confirmation was all about. Do you believe?
So, when do you feel that you actually decided?
Well, I decided around high school that I was going to be Catholic. When it really hit home for me was when I went to Notre Dame. One of the highlights of going to Notre Dame was the 10 p.m. Mass every Sunday. It was relaxing, it was engaging, it was all college kids, the priests and then everybody else; the singers, the lectors, all participants were college kids. Sunday night, 10pm, it was a great way to end the week and begin the next one.
Would you define yourself as intellectually curious?
Absolutely.
Why?
I like figuring out things. I like thinking about different questions. I’m also in the technology space, so everything’s always changing. So, I’m always curious about what’s next. What’s going to happen different? What could a technology do? What new businesses can emerge? And it’s just part of how I was an engineer growing up. I was always trying to figure out how things work. So, I would take things apart. See if I can put it back together. Occasionally, there were few spare parts and it carried on into my work life.
The thing I like the most though, is what I’ll call intellectual jousting. Every once in a while, I will take odd positions that I know are odd positions to start debates with work colleagues just to see where the conversation goes and engage in a fun debate. It doesn’t mean that I’m necessarily advocating one position or another, but I enjoy having a fun debate.
Did you do any activities growing up outside of school?
Yeah. We were always playing sports in backyard. Typically, football or some night game around the house with a bunch of friends. Capture the Flag, Kick the Can, or something like that. Sports-wise, I played football at an early age. I remember my parents showing me articles about how I was playing in Pop Warner football. Apparently, I was pretty good. But I gave up football when I move to Florida. Probably one of the biggest mistakes I ever made. Lot of Boy Scouts. I did Boy Scouts all the way through the — well, I started at Cub Scouts because my friends were doing Cub Scouts and then stuck with it and did that all the way through Eagle Scout.
Even when we moved to Florida and then back to Rochester, I regrouped with the same group that I had started Cub Scouts with and there were ten of us who got eagle all at the same time. It was a record in the council to have 10 in the same troop get eagle at the same time. I played recreational soccer; played in soccer leagues growing up. I would also just hang out with my brother and do different things.
How did these activities help shape who you are?
Scouting the most because it taught me independence, how to manage myself; we would go out for hikes. I can’t believe my parents let me do this. We go into the middle of Central Florida, load up the backpack and the adult chaperone who was 18 years old, maybe 18 ½, would drive us. We would have been 14 maybe turning 15. We would go hike with a pack.
Friday night we go in about 7 miles, do about 15–20 on Saturday, and then finish with an 8–10 on Sunday with everything we needed on her backs. There were all kinds of bugs, snakes, wild boar, like all kinds of stuff out roaming around with us. You think back on that and you’re like “what the heck? What were my parents thinking letting me do that?” but that was good.
I also worked so I always had jobs. I was cutting lawns; I had a paper route for one summer. I worked at Wegmans, so practiced a work ethic of have a job and work hard. Boy Scouts teaching me being independent was really good.
How well do you think you did in school?
I did great, just ask me. My grades might tell you something slightly different, but I did fine. I remember this vividly. There were like 186 kids in our high school in my grade, all boys, and I think I probably graduated ranked, between 25 and 30. I was the lowest-ranked kid going to Notre Dame out of my high school, and there were ten of us that year who went to Notre Dame. So, I did okay, but I wasn’t the best in the class.
Do you feel you did the best that you could?
You know, I was under a lot of stress with my parents getting divorced. I used Boy Scouts as an escape. I worked a lot, because I had to, because of my mom needing money and help and whatnot. I did enough to get by. I did enough to get what I needed to, done. I could have done better.
Were any of the schools you attended religiously affiliated?
My high school was a Catholic all-boys high school, McQuaid Jesuit, which was great. We had to take theology. We had to take philosophy. We would have Masses as a community to celebrate big holidays. We had priests that were teaching us. The priests were probably the most fun classes. The Jesuits have a way of being Jesuits, I’ll just say that. Good educators, but they’re also pretty realistic and they don’t mind mixing things up a little bit.
Then I went to Notre Dame. At Notre Dame, there is a certainly a religious feel to the place though they don’t force anybody to be religious. No one makes you go to anything religious at Notre Dame, but you certainly can. And so again, you take two dorms, and the space in the middle is the lobby and the chapel, and like we were rival dorms during the day, but on Sunday nights we all went to mass at 10 p.m. You know, other students and girls would be part of it, and it was just those that what you did at 10 p.m. on Sundays
How would you say that that affected you?
It just reminded me what an important part that is of my life and it shapes values. You know, that is what the most important thing is. Even through Boy Scouts, through the Church; like the other thing I did growing up that I didn’t talk about was being part of the youth group at my church. The reason I did the youth group was because it got me out of the house and all the stress around the house. It was just my best friends and good friends that we had spent years living around each other and, we would go on retreats and I would help lead Retreats, and other stuff. There was always this religious element, but a lot of it for me was always around community and fun and values. That was pretty special, so that continued straight through high school, primarily with youth group more than McQuaid, and then certainly into college.
What was it about the schools that made you want to go there?
I was told that I was going to McQuaid when we move back to Rochester. I lived in Pittsford from 0 to 3 moved to Madrid, Spain from 3 to 6, came back to Pittsford for 6–12, moved to Florida for 13 through about 15/16. Moved back to Rochester for 16 through graduating and then going to Notre Dame. So, I came back after 9th grade in Florida, which was also at the Melbourne Central Catholic, so another catholic high school. And when I came back to Rochester, my dad said, “well if you’re going to live in Rochester…”, he wasn’t too happy about that. “Then you’re going to go to McQuaid” because that’s where my dad went and that’s where my uncle went. He felt like he was doing the right thing. You know, he felt like it would be the best place for us to get a good education and make sure we were getting the right advice we needed for the divorce, and since he was living in Rochester he just felt like that would make sense. And you know, we settled right in.
So why was it that you kept coming back to Rochester?
Family. All our family was from Rochester. My mom was born in Rochester. My dad was born in Rochester. My mom’s family; my Aunt Joan and her kids were in and around Rochester area. My dad’s sister, Aunt Susan, was in and around the Rochester area, so it was always about family. My grandmothers were in Rochester. So, it was always family that brought us back and that’s quite frankly where my parents had grown up so that’s where they knew to spend time.
Was religion a part of why you wanted to go to the schools?
No, like McQuaid got picked for me by dad but McQuaid was great. The all-boys element was annoying at times. But at the same time, it drove focus and you know, it got you focused on what you needed to do during school, which was good. There was a lot less drama than a lot of the public schools. The work was hard, but the teachers were also super dedicated. Like, our math department had 26 years of average tenure. It was insane how these teachers had been at the school for decades focused on teaching people.
I had the same English teacher my dad had, Mr. Bradley. That was bizarre, so, you know. I think I may have had the same math teacher my dad did. So that was pretty interesting, but it wasn’t religion that took me there. And Notre Dame; I had four schools that I applied to. I applied to Rensselaer Polytechnic (RPI), Worcester Polytechnic (WPI), Notre Dame, and Michigan State. Michigan State was my safety school. I said I wanted to be an engineer. RPI is an amazing engineering school on the east coast. I got accepted but waitlisted in the particular program I wanted. WPI was happy to see me, happy to extend an offer to me, and said “Wow, you are kind of big.” I was 243 pounds when I graduated high school. Said “do you want to play football?” I said, “hmm maybe you’re a little too small for me.” And so, I picked Notre Dame without ever visiting it. I had never been on campus, never seen the place, and just sort of picked it because I felt like if I didn’t want to be an engineer, I could be something else there.
What is your current / past occupation?
Current occupation, I would call business executive. Past occupation, most recently business executive, but it has always been a business executive around technology consulting and technology services. And so, I get to pretend to still be a technologist which is where I started as an electrical engineer.
So why did you want to go into that field?
I’m not really sure. Father Kelly was my guidance counselor at Notre Dame and you know, it wasn’t a conversation I had much with my dad or with my mom and so I was either going to be a forest ranger because I really like the outdoors because all the stuff I was doing with Boy Scouts; I was going to be a marine biologist because I don’t know, it was cool, maybe I could go train Shamu or something; Or be an electrical engineer because I was, you know, I felt like, I don’t know, that seemed interesting. Father Kelly was like, “Well, you’re good at math and you’re good at science so you should be an engineer” because he didn’t know anything about being a marine biologist or forestry. So, I ended up being an electrical engineer, not really quite sure why.
So, how did each of your schools help you in your job?
McQuaid prepared me to go to college and was all about work ethic. And more than that, stupid things like how we would wear sportscoats and ties, that there were rules, and you had expectations that were put on you and you just understood it and you did it. So, it’s about work ethic and also it was a pretty broad education that I think helps provide some good perspective; philosophy. I remember debating with Father O’Malley. He had, I guess it was a religion class, and he’s like “Alright, lets debate whether there’s a god.” So, this is a priest who is in a debate with you about “Is there God?” It’s kind of fun, it sort-of challenged you; back to that intellectual curiosity.
Notre Dame was a lot of the same. Like Notre Dame will give you a broad education, it’s pretty challenging, it’s not the best electrical engineering program in the world for sure, but it was solid. When I came out of college, I had opportunities to go to master’s school and do over-the-horizon radar for GE and get my master’s degree at the same time in Syracuse. I had a sales opportunity with AT&T, or there was this weird opportunity that I found to be a consultant with Anderson Consulting, and I decided that that sounded more fun and went there and never looked back.
When was the most challenging time in your life?
Wow. So many times. High School probably. So, my parents are divorced. My dad ends up moving to Rochester. Before my dad moved to Rochester, we were living with my aunt, my mom’s sister who was 17 years older. We were living with her at her house because we didn’t have the money to go rent a place because my mom was still trying to find a job. So, my aunt took us in. My brother and I were sharing a bedroom, which we had never done. I mean we came from Florida where we had a nice 2500 square foot, maybe even bigger, 4-bedroom house with a pool and now we’re sharing a bedroom. We then get a place and it’s a four-room apartment with a basement. So, a kitchen, living room, and two bedrooms. I vividly remember this. Junior year, we would take the bus to the local high school that we would normally go to but since we didn’t go there, we would just get off and get on another bus that would take us straight to McQuaid. Fine, a little long commute, but it worked.
And I vividly remember one day when the bus driver said, “Hey remind your mom she’s late on the rent” because he was the landlord. So, with that, my mom had a combination of depression and would take too many painkillers. I remember having to deal with that. I remember that a part of me having a job was I would have to fund certain things around the house because my mom couldn’t. So, tires for the car so we could still have a car, car maintenance, food; that’s where a lot of my early Wegmans money went. And then dad moved to town, we were still living with my mom because there was a lot of history between the relationship with our dad, which I finally overcame, but it was fun. Yeah, it was just a crazy time. Let’s just say, while a lot of kids have a great high school experience, high school wasn’t the best for me.
And then I go to college and you can tell it in my weight. So my weight tracks my happiness. When I graduated high school, I graduated at 243 lbs. I was ugly, I didn’t have a haircut because you know, no one was telling me I had to get a haircut and I wasn’t worried about it. I had you know, just good friends that had been my friends for years and years and years, but you know, it wasn’t like I was very social or outgoing and I remember coming back from my freshman year of college weighing 180 having lost 63 lbs because all I needed to do was worry about myself and do my own business. And it was like a weight off my back.
So, when would you say was the easiest time of your life?
Easiest time of my life would have been elementary school. You just go to school, we had fun, we would go play in the yard every day, I would hang out with my dog. It was just fun. That was probably the easiest time. And I still remember great holidays. I had a great time spending time with extended family.
Are there any other times other than Elementary School?
I had a great time in Chicago, but it ebbed and flowed. It depended on how my balance was with work versus my personal life. Had a great time once I got married and I was living in Chicago, even though I was working pretty hard going to grad school, it was fun. The early times at Avanade were a ton of work, but that was a lot of fun. A little bit of stress as we were starting as a family just given some of the challenges of having three kids, some of the challenges as you and your sister were being born, but those were all great times.
You know, I look back on the times that we had; all the times watching you guys grow up have been awesome in different ways. I still remember coaching soccer when you were in like U5, that was fun. Coaching baseball and softball was fun. What I would say is most of the fun times over the past two decades have involved spending time with you, the kids, and spending time with your mom.
So how did these challenging and easy experiences affect you at the time?
The challenging ones, like back in high school, I knew I had to help take care of others. I had to help take care of my brother, had to help take care of my family, my mom, me, so it just forced a lot of responsibility, work ethic, accountability, which, you know, is all good stuff but it just meant I didn’t get to have as much fun. Later, grown up, you know, I was focused on “How do I make sure that my kids have fun?” and we have fun as a family.
I describe myself at work as a servant leader. Like I’m here to help take care of others. That’s sort of how I’ve always lived my life. Now the downside is that I’m always worried about what others think of me, are others doing alright, and at times I’m probably not as worried about what I want to do but that’s okay.
So how would you say that they affect you now?
Little bit of that same answer, to me, it’s about how I’ve just grown up. I focus on serving others, I focus on making sure others are having fun or engaged, and the downside is — and I’ve seen it in some of the leadership workout done — some of this just causes me unnecessary stress. So, I’ll worry about things, I always worry about “what if?” or “what could be?” when no one else is worrying about it. It enables me to head off a few things, but it makes me worry more than I should.
I also put a bunch of expectations on me that no one else does. Like “People expect me to do this?” and “People expect me to work this hard” and the reality is no one does, I do, it’s all self-imposed. And so that’s one of the things I’m trying to focus on; giving myself a break. Lowering some of my own self expectations, that are probably too high, like no one else expects it, why should I? But don’t stress yourself out over it.
Do you think you would be where you are today if those events didn’t happen?
No way. They helped shape me, there’s no doubt about it. You can see it if I think about “What has made me successful?” I’ve got a reputation as being a hard worker. I’ve got a reputation as being able to think about the future and envision the future. I’ve got a reputation of working hard to serve my clients and make my clients successful.
And I hope I have a reputation of trying to prioritize time with my family, you can answer that yourself in you essay. I think all of that came from how I grew up. I wasn’t, you know, some people grow up super awesome childhood; never having to worry about anything, everything’s always provided, don’t really have to work for what they need, it’s just given to them, and they have a ton of fun, maybe too much fun, and that’s great. It wasn’t my childhood. I had to work for everything I wanted. I’ve worked pretty hard to make sure we could provide great experiences for our kids and if anything, that’s the one thing that concerns me; is that we made your life too easy. But given how you and Allyson and Kaylin have grown up and you’re all so unique but we’re super proud of how each of you of grown-up and what each of you were doing today and hopefully what we think each of you will do in the future.
Oral History Reflection Questions:
How did your perception of community history change, from before the interview to now?
My perception of community history has changed by learning the true extent of the idea that there is always something you don’t know about. After living with my dad for my whole life to date, I thought that after all of the explaining he did about his childhood, there was no way he would bring up something I didn’t already know. However, I learned many new things about him, such as how he also went to a religious all-boys high school.
How did this project inspire you to learn more about your family and community?
This project inspired me to learn more about my family by helping me learn the lesson explained above. The project has extended my curiosity in a direction I probably never would have thought was interesting.
What were some of the challenges you faced during this project? What could you do differently in your next oral history interview?
One of the challenges I faced during this project was the fact that I didn’t know the environment of Rochester very well. I had never been there, I don’t remember meeting my dad’s mom before she died, and didn’t know much about her ancestry. In the oral history aspect, I wouldn’t change much. I feel that the questions worked out well and I set them up nicely.
If the roles were reversed and you became the tradition-bearer, what stories would you like to tell?
The story that I would tell is would go further into detail about my thought process growing up. I would also explain more about how or why it happened rather than just saying what happened.
Sources
Barrett J.L. (2013) Cognitive Science of Religion. In: Runehov A.L.C., Oviedo L. (eds) Encyclopedia of Sciences and Religions. Springer, Dordrecht
Demo, David H., and Alan C. Acock. “The Impact of Divorce on Children.” Journal of Marriage and Family, vol. 50, no. 3, 1988, pp. 619–648. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/352634.
Roche, Mark W. (2003). The Intellectual Appeal of Catholicism and the Idea of a Catholic University. University of Notre Dame Press.
Sanders, James W. “American Catholic Education.” History of Education Quarterly, vol. 30, no. 3, 1990, pp. 381–388. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/368695.
Keenan, James F. A History of Catholic Moral Theology in the Twentieth Century: from Confessing Sins to Liberating Consciences. Continuum International Publishing Group, 2010, Google Books, books.google.com/books?id=IuWoAwAAQBAJ&pg.
