Mike Cernovich and Jeff Norman agree Trump needs to use social media more.
Interview at Politicon in Pasadena on July 29, 2017:
Jeff Norman: I’m with Mike Cernovich, and aren’t I lucky. I feel like a schoolgirl on prom night.
Mike Cernovich: Well, Jeff, we’ve been trying to meet for about nine months now, so finally, it has happened.
Jeff Norman: Right. I appreciate it. I was thinking about you actually when I was in a panel earlier today. Maybe you were in there, too. It was about is Trump a genius or a lunatic, were you in that one?
Mike Cernovich: Yeah, I was in there for a little bit, and then I ended up leaving.
Jeff Norman: Yeah, I don’t blame you because that’s why I was thinking of you, and I was thinking of Scott Adams. They weren’t even scratching the surface. They don’t even think in those terms about him being a persuasive speaker and there being an art to it or anything like that.
Mike Cernovich: Right. I left because it was boring. That’s what I was telling the friend I was with. I go we try to watch these panels, and everything is so basic. They don’t have any deep insight as to what’s actually going on. They’re repeating what other pundits, who were never able to predict Trump has went. They’re repeating what he has to say, their talking points, so it’s boring.
Jeff Norman: So instead of talking about how bad they are, which is fun, but let’s get to some useful information for people, some analysis. We’ve got the Scaramucci era that has just started. To put it simply, it looks like Trump wants to go to war, but can you give us a little more in depth of what’s happening with Scaramucci and Trump and what’s the next phase?
Mike Cernovich: Well Scaramucci and those guys realize you have to go direct to the people. They need to do more with social media and less with the mainstream media. You can see at this event, Politicon, there was a CNN, had a whole panel discussion, there were like eight people, we took pictures, eight people in the crowd. Jake [Taper 00:02:07] is going to have some event at five. There’s maybe 10 or 15 people lined up. But Tomi Lahren, Charlie Kirk, Anne Colter, the right wing people are actually the bigger draws. So you need to bring in social media more.
Jeff Norman: You’ve been saying that for a while, and I’ve noticed that. Do you think that is what Scaramucci is planning to do?
Mike Cernovich: Definitely.
Jeff Norman: Right. I mean people make a joke about it, but it really could be a very interesting reality show in effect. What are the elements that you see having meetings or how much should they show versus how much should be kept private?
Mike Cernovich: I think anything that doesn’t jeopardize national security should be just Go Pro. I want to see them Go Pro, live stream. Unless it’s national security, make everything public. Everywhere you go, just have a guy with a Go Pro walking around streaming everything. We have a right to see it anyway, as the people.
Jeff Norman: Yeah, it’s interesting. It was just a smidgen, but even though it was only a small part, it was interesting, did you see a few months ago when they had a meeting about technology, all the big technology executives were there, and they let the cameras come in for a little while.
Mike Cernovich: Right, exactly. Scaramucci had them Periscope Trump going on Air Force One. It’s happening. It takes a long time for people who … Because what you got to realize is the traditional media job is you are answering press inquiries, oh no, the press wants to know about this. That’s how everybody has been trained. But people like me and others in social media, we’re training to make content. We don’t answer press inquiries. We only think about how do we get our message to the people and have the most impact. That’s the mindset shift they’re going to have to make to win.
Jeff Norman: I saw your very sexy Periscope the other night where you were reclining.
Mike Cernovich: I always get in trouble for those. I’m like look man, I just live stream all the time. Sometimes I happen to be laying around. Sometimes I’m drinking a glass of wine. That’s just the way it is.
Jeff Norman: I love the intimacy. I want to see you in your pajamas. Do you have Dr. Dentons with the cap, the built in feet?
Mike Cernovich: I don’t actually have pajamas. I sleep in a T-shirt.
Jeff Norman: Ah, there you go. You were giving your comments about what’s really the story when the troops are out there, and how there’s just no time to be dealing with everybody’s sensitivies, but I wanted to ask you more about strategy. It seems, I’m not complaining, but it seems to me Trump was maybe a little harsher than he needed to be. I don’t know if that was a negotiating tactic, but do you think there’s any strategy to him speaking so strongly about that issue?
Mike Cernovich: You got to rile up the left. They want to shut down Christian Bakers. They’re coming after us disrupting our events and everything like that. He just wanted to rattle their cages a little bit.
Jeff Norman: I’ve heard other people suggest well he wants to make it a campaign issue. It’ll help …
Mike Cernovich: Yeah, you make them die in that hill, make the Democrats die in that hill, it’s a marginal issue, it’s a dumb issue that we shouldn’t be talking about all the time. These dumb gender bathrooms. It’s a marginal, not even one percent of the population, it’s one-third of one percent of a population, and everybody wants to make it a big deal. Everybody wants to make it every story. People are getting burned out about that, especially the kind of people in those rust belt crucial states. They want jobs, man. They’re tired of this frivolous BS that we deal with every day, with the Russia nonsense. Real issues is what people want to talk about.
Jeff Norman: Now I respect your knowledge a lot, but I don’t necessarily assume that you know the same amount about everybody. I’m curious about Scaramucci. Do you know a lot about him and what his talents are?
Mike Cernovich: He’s a great communicator, great business person, great entrepreneur, has a good energy, good vibe. Highly optimistic about him.
Jeff Norman: Do you think this is a long term relationship, or is he coming in for a short mission?
Mike Cernovich: I always laugh when people go give me your prediction for five years, and I go five minutes I can give you, five days, kind of, five months, I have no idea what’s going to happen five months from now.
Jeff Norman: I’m not pushing so much for a real specific prediction, but my thought is Scaramucci is really hot, and he’s really wild, and they say well Trump likes what he’s saying, but he doesn’t want people to steal the spotlight, so that’s kind of what I’m thinking.
Mike Cernovich: Yeah, he’s a Trump guy through and through, but Scaramucci is also a smooth guy, and he knows how to flatter Trump and how to charm Trump, so the spotlight stealing thing could be a real problem, but Scaramucci is a charming guy. He knows how to work in Trump. You always got to remember, it’s a 48 law of power, they’re cannot be anyone shine out the master. As long as you remember, no matter how big you are, if you’re in the White House, never outshine the master. Remind Trump that you know he’s in charge, he’ll be fine. But what happens is people get their egos out of control, well even though I work for Trump, I have my own thing, okay, but don’t let Trump think that. You can go home and tell your wife or your girlfriend or whatever, your husband, hey, I’m running things, that’s fine, but when you’re with Trump, you need to remind him that you know he’s in charge.
Jeff Norman: So where are you at now with Cernovich Media? By the way, what is this business of you referring to yourself in the third person? What’s that all about that you do sometimes?
Mike Cernovich: It annoys people, so I do that because they go how dare he, how dare he call himself, so like okay, if that’s going to bother you, then good.
Jeff Norman: It takes a lot to bother me, but it just makes me wonder what’s going on.
Mike Cernovich: Well why don’t you refer to yourself in the third person?
Jeff Norman: I don’t know. I hadn’t thought about it.
Mike Cernovich: Exactly.
Jeff Norman: Can you give us a little run down on where you’re at with Cernovich Media? It seems like you’re on a pretty rapid escalation, an ascension to something, taking advantage of what the new media landscape is like now.
Mike Cernovich: I mean I keep growing. I keep going to events. I keep grinding away. You can hate me for a lot of reasons. You can doubt my character. You can doubt my integrity. You can doubt my motivations, whatever. Nobody can doubt my work ethic, though. I’ve worked all week, all day. I’m here grinding away. I’ll be grinding away tomorrow. I’ll be grinding away on Monday. That’s the future of Cernovich Media is every day we wake up, work hard, and grind.
Jeff Norman: Once last question, if you don’t mind. Who’s we? It’s obviously you’re working, but it seems like there’s some other people involved. Just wondering what the extent of the operation is.
Mike Cernovich: Well I have my Facebook guy with me. I don’t run Facebook anymore. I have a great Facebook video team running Facebook. We is just we the people. Every time you say I, I, I, I, what about we? It’s a collective movement of people sharing articles, sharing things on social media. Without people sharing my articles and links, I would have a diary.
Jeff Norman: All right. Thanks, Mike. Appreciate it.
Mike Cernovich: Glad we finally got to talk, Jeff.
Jeff Norman: Same here. Thank you. Take care. Appreciate it.