Photo by Hasan Almasi on Unsplash

Joe Rogan met a former Islamic extremist for 3 hours. This happened next.

David Kimbell
Published in
5 min readMar 30, 2022


As a young British Muslim, Maajid Nawaz was badly affected by racism.

It drove him to Islamic extremism.

Then, in an Eqyptian prison from 2002 to 2006 … something changed.

In Dec 2021, he told his story to Joe Rogan. (Yes, that Joe Rogan.)

I listened to all 3 hours.

Here’s what Maajid Nawaz thinks now …👇👇👇

We’re In A Hybrid War

Information, and Language, are the New Weapons.

Thet are constantly being used to define Reality. To play with people’s memories of what the Government really said way back when. And one of the main weapon platforms?


States Are No Longer Serving Their People, But the Reverse

They are molding their people.

And the people being molded, are fiercely defending the right of the molders to mold them.

The government has lost confidence in its people. It desires to dissolve the people, and elect a new one. -Berthold Brecht

In Prison in Eqypt, the Joke Was:

“Changing your mind about anything is a criminal offence!”

Maajid noticed some prisoners were radicals, but many were just converts from one ideology to another. Christianity to Islam. Islam to Christianity. Communists to moderates.

When you convert in any direction … that’s thinking.

The Eqyptian government … and specifically Hosni Mubarak and his supporters … didn’t want their people thinking. People who think are a threat to Power.

Maajid reasoned his way from Islamic totalitarianism, to libertarianism.

Today’s Governments Are Looking for To Increase Their Power

And suppress dissent (which is just a threat to their continued power).

Emergencies (read: viruses, protests, wars) are incredibly convenient for this.

In the UK, Right to Silence in a Counter-Terrorist Investigation is Criminal Offence

I’m a customs officer who suspects you, and you don’t answer my questions?


When Science Said, The Vax Would Protect Indefinitely …

Maajid allowed initally, that that might be true.

But when it became clear it wasn’t (only 12 wks), the restrictions should have been waived. They weren’t (for the longest time).

The UK government was enjoying increased power too much.

The Spare Kidney Argument:

“You have 2 kidneys. I need one. Hand it over. State says you have to.”

Like that idea?

My Body My Choice, we say (when it comes to abortion).

So why not when it comes to Vax?

Labelling People Antivaxxers Has Sole Purpose of Shutting Down Debate

Prevailing view today is, Truth Is Relative.

When truth is relative, there is no such thing as reality, only Power.

And continued Power requires the killing of all dissent, all question-asking.

Think: Orwell, 1984

Introduction of Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBCDs)

Over 80% of world’s Central Banks are working on them.

The UK CBDC will be “programmable”. The Bank of England will be able to prevent you buying food the Bank (or anyone allied with them) doesn’t approve of.

CBDCs Won’t Be Money, They’ll Be Vouchers/Coupons

Says Maajid: “There’s another word for this: The Chinese Social Credit system”.

The Government will allow you to spend it the way they want you, even though you worked for it.

UK Chancellor of Exchequer Rishi Sunak: “Digital cash could be programmed to ensure it is only spent on essentials, or goods which an employer or government deems to be sensible”.

We Are At a Gutenberg-Style Inflection Point

Technology disrupts existing power structures.

The invention of the printing press led to the 30-Years War in Europe, as governments & church fought brutally to preserve their power.

What’s our inflection point today? CRYPTOGRAPHY

It will lead to the Decentralization of Everything.

Example: Cryptocurrencies are now doing for money, what Gutenburg did for the written word.

Today’s Conflicts Are Really about Centralization vs Decentralization, the Powerful vs the powerless

Decentralized media is under attack as well.

It prevents Power controlling the narrative. Twitter exemplifies this.

Try saying something non-PC on Twitter. Chances are good you’ll be shut down.

There Will Be Short-term Pain

The Russia/Ukraine war is just the latest emergency tool.

The next one, suggests Scottish journalist Neil Oliver, will probably be a Climate Change Lockdown.

If we get widespread food shortages, that will also be the perfect pretext for further centralization. (And out of desperation, most of us will clamour for it.)

We May Get a Decentralized World, which will be Much Better

To get there, we have to get through this period of The Powerful desperately trying to hold on to that power.

It’s also possible … that we get draconian dystopia.

Hannah Arendt wrote about totalitarianism in WWII Germany (in, The Banality of Evil)

How do ordinary nice people become evil?

Step-by-step, you’re led to doing evil things while being told you’re doing good.

It’s easier to just do/believe as you’re told.

What’s currently happening is a revolution in the wrong direction.

A power grab.

And there needs to be a counter-revolution.

Scary Anecdotes:

Prof Susan Michie, member of theUK Science Advisory Group (SAGE), says social distancing & face masks should remain permanently.

Other members of SAGE have left. They have expressed regret that they had engaged in psyOps and fear-mongering, to get the public to comply with Covid measures.

The Elephant in the Room is The Chinese Communist Party (CCP)

Thucydides Trap: How does a rising power overtake a dominant power, without war?

The CCP has figured out how.

Western political elite has come under the influence of CCP.

MI5 has alerted: A CCP spy is operating openly (not secretly) within the UK Parliament to influence policy decisions and current/aspiring MPs.

The Hinckley Point C nuclear power plant is being built partly with Chinese funding.

With Russian/Ukraine, the imperative is: Avoid driving Russia further into the arms of China

China is the bigger threat.

Because it is the ideological country that Russia isn’t.

Twitter has admitted: A lot of the recently-closed fake accounts were peddled by the CCP.

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David Kimbell

Curiosity. Questions. Simplicity. Principles. Meaning. The Vital Few, not the Trivial Many. Be your own Chief Questions Officer.