Rightwing Women Discuss Guns — And It’s Not What You Think
This round, the group discusses gun ownership — why they carry, what’s wrong with the NRA, what the left should understand and what you should know about guns.
How would you explain guns and your support for gun rights and women carrying to a liberal friend?
Katie:
I grew up with and around guns. In fact, the first time I shot a gun was when I was about 7 years old, so it has always seemed natural to me to have them in the home and to go to the range. As a military brat, I was taught gun safety, and my dad made sure we knew every mechanism on the gun and that we could take it apart, clean it and put it back together before we were ever allowed to shoot a gun. I’m also a hunter and my family lives on a rural farm in Alabama, where the average response time for 911 is well over 30 minutes.
Now, being a college student and a young woman, I find myself in a difficult situation where my campus is gun free. Obviously, whether or not you agree with them, you have to abide by the law, so I can’t carry on campus. It leaves me feeling pretty scared and vulnerable, especially when just last year, I got several safety notices from the university about armed robberies and sexual assaults on and around campus. I walk to my car sometimes at 2 a.m. in a dark parking lot after several hours in the library and I fear for my safety. Carrying a gun, I don’t have that same fear because I know I can protect myself if, God forbid, the situation were to arise where it’s necessary. If I had to explain my support for gun rights to a liberal, it all boils down to being able to protect myself.
Jenna:
I grew up in rural South Carolina, where hunting is a big part of the culture, so my experience was very similar to Katie’s. I started shooting when I was very young and understood the gravity of guns and the damage they could from a very early age. I can still hear my dad’s voice in my head telling me the rules for gun safety.
I also learned very quickly the best way to feel comfortable with a gun is to understand it. You should know it inside and out, how to take it apart and put it back together. Just like with so many other things in life that can be a little scary, knowledge is power with guns.
I decided I wanted to carry when I was finishing college. I started living alone, and I honestly felt very vulnerable. Trips to the store at night were stressful, and I can still remember a few walks to my car in a dark parking lot with my keys tucked between my fingers just in case. I decided I didn’t like feeling like I was at a disadvantage in my surroundings, so I made the decision to carry and never looked back.
This, of course, brings up the question of why many women feel so unsafe doing everyday activities, but that may be a different subject for a different roundtable. I think it would be good for us to talk about how our gun ownership differs from what might be portrayed by the NRA or other gun activists in the media (e.g. AR-10 graduation photos).
Katie:
First off, let’s get something straight, the graduation pics with guns are obnoxious and not at all how you should act with or portray guns. The best way to be a supporter of the Second Amendment is to be a responsible and law-abiding gun owner. For the most part, you shouldn’t want people to know you’re carrying. From a tactical standpoint, keep the element of surprise.
Jenna:
I totally agree on that point. I recently told someone I went to the range over the weekend, and they were totally shocked I carry and routinely practice with my gun. I thought about that for a while, and I decided that is exactly how I want it to be.
Guns aren’t meant to be an ego boost or a toy to make you feel like you’re part of a political movement. They are real and can be dangerous when used incorrectly. The irony of these people who feel compelled to show off their guns is that I often notice them breaking important gun safety rules.
Sarah:
I’m not as knowledgeable about guns as the other women here, but I always planned to keep a gun in the household for protection and peace of mind as an adult. That plan is temporarily delayed since I currently live in New York City, where legally owning guns is a very difficult process, but in the meantime I try to educate myself about guns and to gain as much experience as I can.
Vic:
Like Sarah, I live in New York, which means I have not had access to firearms in my daily life. I was a victim of gun violence in 2016, when I was mugged at gunpoint by gang members in Brooklyn.
After that incident, I looked into concealed carry and found Kimberly Corban, who began to carry after a sexual assault as a means of protection. I was immediately attracted to the idea of a gun as an equalizer and stood by the Second Amendment as a staunch constitutionalist, but I never had access to them.
However, more recently I’ve began to support more gun reform measures as my partner was from an area around Sandy Hook,and as we see more and more acts of gun violence — I feel a preventative response to this violence is warranted, but my perspective has been developed through my own experiences.
Marybeth:
I also grew up around guns, and I was raised with a healthy level of respect for the role they play in our lives and what they are designed to do. I’m not a hunter, I’m not a collector; I own guns for the sole purpose of self-protection. My family is originally from St. Louis, and growing up I’d watch the news and see stories on missing kids, violence against women and eventually I’d learn my uncle’s girlfriend was murdered by a serial rapist.
Our family took self-protection seriously. My mom worked in a prison that ran a sex offender assessment unit and the Missouri Sex Offender Program (MOSOP), and we also have survivors of abuse/assault in our family, so throughout my life it was made clear what kind of dangers were out there. By the time I was working and too young for a gun I had a collapsible baton and a body alarm. I wasn’t raised to embrace panic and fear, it was merely an understanding of what was out there, and the knowledge that fear shouldn’t own you or control how you live. Being prepared is the best course of action.
If you asked 99 percent of the people I’m around, they’d have no idea whatsoever that I carry. I don’t think it’s a political prop, something to show off like a toy to the world or something to be taken lightly. It’s a weapon that should be treated with respect, which involves acknowledging the damage it can do. I pray every day that I will never have to use it.
I carry because I live alone and I refuse to live in fear. I refuse to run to my car in dark parking lots, I refuse to stay home when the sun goes down instead of taking my dog for a walk. I refuse to stop hiking or going for walks in the country by myself. My gun gives me the power to breathe and enjoy life more without being paralyzed by the thought that bad people are out there and I could become a statistic.
That said: I don’t believe all people should own guns. If you’re a responsible gun owner, your guns will become an added layer of protection for you and your family, but if you’re not a responsible gun owner they serve as a danger to you and those around you. Accidents happen when people who shouldn’t have guns have them, so I’m a strong advocate for restrictions, background checks and updates to our current system.
Katie:
Completely agree on that last point with Marybeth. Another thing I’d definitely have to bring up when talking to anyone who is against guns is that I know there is a need for a complete overhaul of our background check system (NICS). I don’t know the exact number off the top of my head, but a lot of states currently fail to report crimes and mental illnesses that would bar people from purchasing and owning a firearm.
Marybeth:
Katie! YES! I had a thread of tweets regarding the NICS. It’s a mess. The majority of mass shooters have a history of abusing women, and a horrific number of domestic abusers are never added to the database. I’d go on a tangent about how this is all connected to how poor treatment of women isn’t taken seriously, but that’s a whole different rabbit trail.
Katie:
That all ties into my argument on why women should carry, though. Just yesterday, a woman, along with her boyfriend and their roommate, were murdered in the town over from me by her ex-husband. She had previously petitioned a judge twice for a protective order and was denied both times. And to those people who want to drag out the debunked Arthur Kellermann study that states a gun doesn’t deter crime, that study has been debunked seven different ways to Sunday. In fact, a study done by the CDC, which was commissioned by President Barack Obama, found guns do deter crime.
Jenna:
I agree with these points completely. There are things that should be tightened up regarding gun availability. One of the crucial things is what MB mentioned: We fail women and children, who are often the victims of these gun crimes, when we allow people to buy guns who absolutely should not have them.
We saw an example of this in Texas when a man was able to purchase a gun and use it on innocent people in spite of his dishonorable discharge from the military. There are countless other examples of this and other, domestic issues that don’t get properly added to the background check system, and which therefore lead to more violence that could be prevented. It is absolutely a broken system.
Erica:
I grew up in New York (Long Island) and have lived in Manhattan for the last 14 years. I have zero knowledge of guns; I’ve never even seen one. I do support the Second Amendment. However, after the last year, and seeing the extreme rhetoric, I’ve really been turned off and sometimes questioned that. Luckily, I have the ladies here who are responsible gun owners who have explained to me why they carry, etc. If I didn’t know them, I can honestly say I would 100 percent be reconsidering my support of Second Amendment rights.
Compare how the women in this chat are speaking about gun rights to the NRA’s inflammatory talk about things that have nothing to do with the Second Amendment. How do you think that rhetoric comes across to someone like me?
Marybeth:
Erica, there is truly nothing I hate more than when people scream “BUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT!” (Especially when those are usually the same people who will close their eyes while minorities are denied their Fifth Amendment rights, I digress.) It doesn’t further gun rights to condescendingly try to give lessons on the Constitution, and we’d all be better off having healthy discussions about it.
The sad fact is that organization like the NRA don’t want healthy discussions; they want all-out hatred between the two sides because they want to plant fear in the hearts of gun owners, it fills their bank accounts and it helps their chosen politicians get elected. The NRA and many of the gun-loving pundits who pose with their guns have made the Second Amendment a punchline, and they are the ones who put our Second Amendment rights in more jeopardy than anyone on the left ever has.
Victoria:
To further Marybeth’s point, the NRA hadn’t said anything about Siwatu-Salama Ra or Philando Castille until they were prompted to. Antonia Okafor is currently running for the NRA board of directors, to which I think she will bring some much-needed diversity.
Katie:
The NRA is a sore spot for me. They’ve really disappointed me with how they’ve turned a blind eye to certain cases that should’ve been an outrage for the organization that claims to be protecting Second Amendment rights. Philando Castile still tugs at my heartstrings. I was a member for a long time, so I do know the good they’ve done in the past with things like Eddie Eagle and Project Child Safe. On the other hand, along with Philando Castile, the recent hostile rhetoric and how they have treated anyone who expresses the slightest bit of a difference of opinion has turned me away.
People are scared of guns, rightfully so if like some of the ladies here you’ve never shot, much less seen one, and the only type of exposure you have is when there is an issue of gun violence. The NRA and the Second Amendment advocates out there need to stop with the vitriol. I’m as passionate as anyone about being able to protect myself, but I’m not going to demonize the New York Times for publishing a story on the lack of proper background checks in America.
There are people on the left who want to take away guns, I don’t think there is any denying that. We should call them out, but it feels like civility is a dying practice and the people on both sides need to be more understanding of each other. The vast majority of people on the left want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, which is something I think everyone can agree on. Our disagreement is on what the best way to do that and we’re doing a really bad job of having that conversation in a civil and productive way.
Jenna:
When the NRA punted on the Philando Castille story, it became totally clear to me that they don’t care as much about being an advocate for the Second Amendment as they do about being a tribal vehicle for political ire. I firmly believe they are doing more harm than good to the Second Amendment. So much of this depends on public sentiment towards guns, and when the NRA is stirring up fear of guns, public sentiment is going to shift.
Marybeth:
Bingo, Jenna and Katie. And these organizations fill their ranks with women who like to pose with guns but are completely incompetent in regards to constructing a logical argument or reaching across the aisle with some modicum of decency and acknowledgment of legitimate fears.
Dana Loesch, Katie Pavlich, Tomi Lahren and Kaitlin Bennett are really good examples of an out-of-control gun culture that has made a mockery out of gun rights. Bennett is more interested in retweets than preserving gun rights, Lahren is only interested in posing with guns for clicks, and Loesch and Pavlich— regardless of whether they’re discussing guns or any other issue — constantly sound as though they’re preparing to drench themselves in war paint and give an apocalyptic speech to an Army of Scottish rebels.
And it’s all for money and clicks. That’s it. Why would we want to be affiliated with people who use guns as props? We have to ask ourselves why these organizations, and why conservative publications, are choosing these individuals to represent the average gun owner. “Their fate will be failure, and they will perish in the political flames of their own fires,” is a monologue that plays behind the villainous uprising in a dystopian movie, not the words of someone who has any interest whatsoever in having a logical discussion.
Sarah:
At one point during Obama’s administration, I considered becoming an NRA member. The recent rhetoric and direction has pushed me away to the point that I would never become a member now.
I wrote a Conservative Pathways piece about the NRA and how I think the NRA’s decision to engage in the culture wars and become aggressively partisan has damaged the guns rights movement, and I definitely think there is a need for non-partisan guns rights organizations to espouse true responsible gun ownership and education. And, like the other women have mentioned, the fact that the NRA remained silent for so long about Siwatu-Salama Ra or Philando Castille was shameful.
Erica:
What I wish is that we could see these issues through each other’s eyes. Whenever a mass shootings happens, gun-control advocates or even non-gun owners (like myself) are mocked. When mass shootings happen, I try to remind myself how my gun-owning friends feel and why they feel the need to own a gun.
What I would like is for gun owners to remember there are many people in this country who don’t own guns. Don’t mock us, put yourself in our shoes.
Jenna:
I think Erica is bringing up an interesting point here. I often see accusations of mocking pointed at the left, but this actually goes both ways. Carrying a gun is not for everyone, and that’s something I recognize and think everyone should recognize. It’s a personal choice — kind of the whole point of this freedom thing — and when we mock or criticize, it makes having conversations so much more difficult.
Erica:
Yes, absolutely. I’m not saying it’s OK, for example, when people don’t use the correct terminology, etc. CORRECT us. Don’t mock. That gets us nowhere.
Jenna:
Excellent point. I often feel the need to correct terminology when I see things that are incorrect, but only because I think it’s so important to getting to the root of our problems. Piling on people who use a word incorrectly does absolutely nothing but fuel rhetorical battles that ultimately leads to no solutions.
Erica:
And, when the organization whose job it should be to educate on these issues is out there putting ads burning copies of the New York Times….that’s all we see.
Vic:
It’s all snark, no education, which is unfortunate. The NRA could be better about partisanship.
Jenna:
Preach. Blending lemons taught exactly zero people zero things about why the Second Amendment is valuable. The current course of the NRA is worrying for me as a gun owner because I think it will only lead to more distrust and conflict.
Katie:
It does bug me when people use incorrect terminology or make false statements. Don’t even get me started on the term “assault weapon,” because there is no such thing. It’s basically a catch term for any gun that looks scary to anti-gun people. But after the annoyance goes away when people use incorrect terms, I’d like to have a genuine discussion on what you believe is wrong and what you think the solution is.
Jenna:
Adjacent to your point, something Marybeth and I have talked about a lot is how we feel like we can’t say much of anything about guns on public forums. Even when we feel it might be valuable to share our knowledge of guns, we shut down because we don’t want to be perceived as gun zealots.
I think this is a fault in the system because people should be able to have these conversations without jumping down each others throats. That’s why I value people like Erica so much. She has always listened patiently and asked good questions. We need more of that from both sides of this debate.
Marybeth:
Yes to all of the above. I would not even be able to count the times Jenna and I have had this discussion. You feel as though you have to stay silent because one side makes gun right advocates look like fools, and the other belittles what a gun might mean to a woman.
I don’t appreciate being belittled by men who more than likely haven’t experienced the same level of fear, nor will they. They haven’t looked out at a dark parking lot and asked a manager to walk them out. Most haven’t been followed, threatened, or looked at a man when they’re alone on a hike and thought “that person could rape and murder me with little effort, and no one would hear me.”
And on the flip side, I don’t appreciate having to deal with gun enthusiasts turning all of this into fever dream theater. We need sensible people in the middle who respect each other, see the value in reforms, and want to put away the war paint and find common ground.
Jenna:
Absolutely. We need to listen to each other, which is unfortunately easier said than done. Going off of what Erica is saying and maybe wrapping this thing up, what do you guys consider integral parts of responsible gun ownership, especially for people who carry on a regular basis?
Katie:
I can not stress safety enough. I carry a Glock 43, and for those who don’t know: Glocks don’t have the typical safety on it. So I have to be very trigger conscious. Additionally, practice. There is no point in having a gun, if in a situation where you need to use it, if you can’t aim or hit a target.
I love my Glock 43. It’s one of the smallest 9mm on the market, and it’s perfect for me because I have ridiculously small hands and is perfect for concealment. In the end, choose a gun that works for you. Go to the range. It’s a lot like a car in that you wouldn’t buy it without test driving it first.
Jenna:
My biggest piece of advice is to stay practiced. You should be shooting on a regular basis to stay comfortable with your weapon. Also, for any women who want to try shooting, don’t let the gun range guy hand you a teeny tiny pink gun. (Right, Marybeth?) More gun gives you more grip, and more grip makes shooting a whole lot easier. Go for something that is a happy medium and what fits your hands. I carry a Walther PK380 and couldn’t recommend it enough. It has a very comfortable grip, an easy slide and a very smooth trigger, all of which make shooting it extremely easy and comfortable.
Marybeth:
Basic gun safety is of course the most important thing. Treat every gun as if it’s loaded, never point it at something you’re not willing to destroy, etc… And teaching kids those lessons, because no matter how safe you are, you want them to be in control of the situation if they go somewhere where a gun is not being handled safely.
Additionally, I think men need to stop telling women what weapons to buy. Women need to feel comfortable with their choice, it should feel like an extension of your body, something you are in control of at all times. If you are not in control of it, it shouldn’t be where anyone who shouldn’t handle it can get to it. I carry a Walther PPQ, it’s the right fit for me (I think Walthers are generally good guns for women), and if I am not in complete control of it, I put it in a safe.
Jenna:
I think all three of the gun owners here agree that safety is of the utmost importance for responsible gun owners, but we also carry the responsibility of being rational and respectful to those who might not share our views. I think in the political climate we find ourselves in now, it can feel impossible to make progress and find common ground, but it can be done. And it starts with conversations, conversations I am always happy to have when there is mutual respect and understanding.
