Part 5: Copyright Enforcement
Jeremy: When we left off, I was explaining that when content is shared online without permission, there’s a rough and ready way for artists to get a cut of that from the major platforms. But the copyright holders aren’t super happy with the deal they get out of that, and they want more. They want to be able to stop their content going online in the first place, and to shut platforms down if it happens too often. Have a look at this video, so you can see where they’re coming from.
Pearl: I don’t think he’s very… personable. Am I right?
Jeremy: Well, it’s his job.
Pearl: But am I right that he’s not being very personable?
Jeremy: He thinks he’s being personable. He’s just responding to the rights holders who want to protect the musicians, and he thinks we’re being unreasonable by not allowing him to have a rule to take down those websites. He thinks that’s being uncharitable to the musicians.
Pearl: You can sue them, you can throw a fit, you can threaten to sue, file a case, but you’re not taking anybody’s website down, like come on. Don’t be such a baby. The fact that they did it is the crime, them having a website to do it isn’t the crime. You just wanting to take down the entire website is you being petty and throwing a fit.
Jeremy: Well this is the IP enforcement section of the book. So you’re saying that the person who makes a copy in a way that they should have to pay for it, which normally would only be if they’re making money off it, that person should be penalized for that act, not the website.
Pearl: No, the website’s just a tool. It’s not telling everybody hey, upload your fake shit, like no, it’s not telling you that.
Jeremy: Well some of the websites are.
Pearl: What website says that?
Jeremy: Like the Pirate Bay.
Pearl: Yeah but you shouldn’t… don’t shut Pirate Bay down. Don’t shut anyone down, just let it be!
Jeremy: So who is at fault there? If Pirate Bay’s going to be making money from ads.
Pearl: It’s really the users.
Jeremy: So the Pirate Bay shouldn’t be responsible, the users who use the Pirate Bay should be responsible.
Pearl: Yeah. I’m glad the website exists!
Jeremy: The copyright industry thinks it would be better to make them responsible, because you can’t go after the millions of anonymous users of the Pirate Bay, so instead it makes much more sense to make the Pirate Bay responsible, because it knows what its users are doing.
Pearl: I mean yes it’s easier, but it’s not the website’s fault.
Jeremy: But what if they’re knowingly profiting and the only way to stop that from happening is by taking down the website and prosecuting it?
Pearl: Then you take it to court and see what the judge says.
Jeremy: That’s something else that we’re very big on at EFF, that if there is a dispute like that it should go to a court.
Pearl: They know the Constitution better than I do.
Jeremy: The users of the Pirate Bay doesn’t expect to be responsible for what they download, do they? Like if you use the Pirate Bay would you accept the risk that you’re going to have to pay a penalty if you get caught?
Pearl: I do that every time!
Jeremy: You knowingly accept that risk?
Pearl: I don’t open BitTorrent anonymously.
Jeremy: Yeah, so if you ended up getting a penalty, you’d say “Oh well, that’s a fair cop.”
Pearl: Yeah, the same way a graffiti writer knows what they’re doing, and if they get caught they’re like “Oh fuck, yeah”. They’re not like, “No, I’m not doing anything wrong!” So I would be like, “Yeah, you caught me. I will pay you whatever the fee is, for the… thousands of dollars worth of music that I’ve downloaded!”
Jeremy: So what should be the limit of that?
Pearl: It should be very petty, like a parking ticket. Even though some people have had to pay way more than a parking ticket before, I don’t feel like it should be anything crazy. And I don’t even feel like it should be like a fee that you pay at a toll gate. I don’t think there should be anybody controlling the Internet.
Jeremy: Yeah, but then that’s the way that people are able to make money off content for free, which is something that you earlier said shouldn’t happen. You said if people are making money off content they should be paying the artist. But now you’re basically admitting that there’s going to be cases where the only person making money is the Pirate Bay, and the Pirate Bay isn’t responsible. So basically no one’s going to get paid.
Pearl: They’re not directly using your art. They’re just the medium. You don’t expect the medium that you’re using to want money? It’s a business.
Jeremy: So it should be fine for people to commercially use music without paying for it?
Pearl: No, if you want to make money off it…
Jeremy: But the Pirate Bay does indirectly make money of it by selling advertising.
“What are they taking from you? Nothing. What are they giving to you? A platform.”
Pearl: But that’s the thing, it’s indirect. They’re not making money off of your specific piece of music. They’re making money off the fact that you uploaded your stuff, or someone’s… it’s not even about the music. It’s about the clicks, right? So they’re not making money off your music, they’re making money off the clicks that your music brings to the website. So, what are they taking from you? Nothing. What are they giving to you? A platform. You don’t want them to get paid?
Jeremy: That’s the argument that the radio stations make. Saying they are a platform for musicians. That’s why they shouldn’t have to pay the full amount.
Pearl: But they’re making money off the songs!
Jeremy: The radio stations make money from ads, but it only makes that money because people are listening to the music. So they do have to pay something for the music they play. But in America the law is weird, so they only pay the songwriters rather than the performers. So performers don’t get paid anything. It’s accepted that the performers are benefiting from the exposure.
Pearl: That’s what I’m saying!
Part 6 of this interview, titled The Future of the Creative Industries, will be released tomorrow, January 20.
