“Conversations with Women” Series.
Tegshee Darambazar: From Interpol to Mongolian Politics.
We are sitting across from each other at the small coffee shop down High St in Sai Yung Pun area of Hong Kong as Tegshee starts recalling her childhood in Mongolia. She is soft-spoken and chooses her words carefully. I know her story, or so I think. A police officer, working for the Interpol in Mongolia. A lawyer, at the national committee on gender equality in Prime Minister’s office. An adviser, introducing compliance regulation to the banking sector. But you wouldn’t read about it in any of the local newspapers or magazines. Instead, you might find an article portraying her like a vulture climbing the political ladder at all costs. She shrugs it off and says she’d rather work tirelessly and prove her point through achievements then brawl with the journalists.
I learn that she has been a victim of sexual abuse in her teens. She cries silently as she tells me the story. I turn off the microphone and sit still fuming at the world, fuming at her then teacher for scolding the two boys, but letting them continue with their studies. After all, no one was raped, they said. Tegshee withdrew from the school of design and switched to studying law. Before the incident, she was thinking of becoming a designer, an artist. She won second place in a national art competition that got her a seat at the design school.
After law school, she went to do an internship at the Supreme Court. On the second day of her internship, she was asked to help out at the police headquarters across the street. They needed someone to translate Interpol documents that were just faxed through from France. At that time Interpol only communicated in French and Tegshee was the only one they could find that spoke French. That day she stayed at the Police Headquarters. And the next. Eventually becoming a police officer at the General Police Authority of Mongolia.
Do you think anything changed today? Is the perception of sexual abuse any different then it was 20 years ago?
It has improved a little, but not much. There was a case last year, of a German tourist who traveled across Mongolia. A very pretty woman walking in the streets of Mongolia. Men were whistling at her, trying to touch her, commenting on her figure, her breasts, as she walked. In the countryside, a man openly told her, “oh you are a foreigner, you’re probably not having enough sex, let's have sex”. This type of thing occurs in Mongolia a lot. The woman was a journalist, and she published an article last year about her experience. If you see the comments under the article, it illustrates how people are not sensitive to this issue. A Mongolian politician responded to the article, in an attempt to protect the dignity of Mongolian men. “A very unfortunate story”, he said, “but the Mongolians are very decent people, they would not do something like that”. I find it even more interesting that when women came forward, to support the Mongolian men against these allegations, they framed it as protecting their nationality. Nationality first, women second. I thought to make a deeper analysis of these cases, and the Policy Research Hub worked on this topic. We conducted a survey, and it seems that we’re still not very gender sensitive. Even though many mid-level positions are filled with women and claim that we are moving in the right direction, we are still not gender-sensitive.
Did the #metoo movement gain attention in Mongolia? Did Mongolian women come out and say that this was an issue for them as well?
A few NGO’s tried to raise awareness, but it’s still difficult for us. Our tradition, culture, religion is very gender biased. We’re going someplace, some changes are happening, but it doesn’t have a big impact. Starting from schools, books that they use, those books themselves create gender bias. It’s not a new fight, but we still need a lot of time to change perceptions.
You mentioned religion. What role do you think religion plays in all this?
A huge role. Majority of Mongolians are Buddhist. And Mongolian Buddhist culture is very gender biased. I’ll give you an example. We have a mountain worshiping ceremony. it’s very common in Mongolia. and only men get to go to the top of the mountain while women have to stay below. And the explanation is: women are not strong enough to go up to the top. If a woman does, this will anger demons. What does that mean? And this exists today. And of course, women in the countryside accept it. They don’t think it’s wrong or maybe they don’t understand what is right or wrong.
But it's not only Buddhism, look at western religious rituals. When you get married you go from one man’s hand to another’s. Father walks you to the church and then hands you over to another man. We may only see the beautiful sides of the wedding ceremony, but if you look closer, that gender bias exists in almost every country.
You have worked on gender issues at the highest level of government — as an Adviser to the Prime Minister’s committee on gender issues. How difficult is it, even in that position, to make any real changes?
Making changes requires funds. And all the funds of the current government, and the previous one, and the one before were never gender-sensitive. We tried to introduce gender mainstreaming in the budget, but it was taken as a sign that we want more women in parliament or executive government.
We tried working on many different fronts. One of them was providing training and capacity building for journalists. To be more gender sensitive, so that women are not represented as an accessory, but as a human being. But after consecutive training, nothing changed. For example, one of our politicians is married to a very successful business woman. She worked hard on her business, built it up from scratch. But the press will always report on her, as the wife of the politician. And this is just adding fuel to the stereotypes. Confirming that if a man is powerful, he can accessorize himself with beautiful women. If a man has an affair with many different women, he’s cool. But if a woman gets involved with a man, even allegedly, she’s a whore.
Are there any women that to you are role models in Mongolia? Someone you look up to, and that young girls can look up to?
Of course, there are many women, including politicians. I read a lot, so I know their stories. Which woman is doing what and in which area. But women, they don’t tend to advertise themselves. So for young kids, it’s difficult to differentiate who is who. Especially to see those women that are working behind the scenes.
What do you tell your daughters? what do you teach them?
They are constantly facing problems. (laughs). One of my daughters has very long hair. In school, a boy sitting behind her took out scissors and cut her hair. I talked to her teacher, and she tells me, “you should tell your daughter to put her hair in a bun”. Something has to be changed and from a very early age.
I try to teach my daughters to be more confident in themselves. I’m a very quiet person and it’s counterproductive in today’s world. I look back and I see I have done a lot of work. This includes Mongolian government strategy 2025 on reduction of poverty. I worked on this strategy for about two years. Many sleepless nights. In the end, a Minister got the full credit. I didn’t confront him and I feel bad about it. As if I have wronged myself. So I teach my daughters to be more outspoken.
when you were in government you were one of the few women who were in the room during many of the meetings and discussions. How does it feel to be the only woman in the room? And what does it take to get yourself heard?
It is very difficult to be heard. A woman starts talking and the first thing people see is how she looks, why she hasn’t pulled her hair back, what an inappropriate choice of earrings. A man from our working group would present, and the first thing they would say was: “He is so considerate to be working on gender issues. What a gentleman!” Often I wished that I was much older. For young women, it’s even worse. You wish you were old so that people will listen to you. It’s very difficult to work in this kind of environment. Women that were working in the same administration would try to encourage me to do the research and provide the results to the men in the working group. So I tried to be the most knowledgeable on the subject, so they would get back to me for more information. And this is how I survived. It is a survival.
Mongolia needs strong women like you. Do you think you would ever run for office or agree to a political post?
I have been offered many posts over the last few years. As Deputy Director of the State Property Agency. Director of Strategy at the Ministry of Urban Development. Head of Foreign Relations department at the Ministry of Construction. But every time I declined. My husband is in politics as well. He was working as a Presidential Adviser on economic issues. Now he is planning to run for parliament. So I stepped aside.
There is a perception in Mongolia, that if a woman is successful in politics, she must be having an affair with a politician. It was especially difficult for me when I was younger. You’re not accepted. You hear people constantly gossiping about you. It wasn’t easy for me. So I thought maybe it’s better for me to stay behind and support my husband. I try to make him more gender-sensitive (laughs). I tell him, “you have a wife that is a gender specialist you can’t be saying this”.
He is lucky to have you as an adviser.
He knows that.
Can I ask, you have 4 kids, and people still gossip?
Yes, they do. They expect me to be fat, or old. Then it would be fine. But because I go to the gym and I look after myself, they say, “there must be something behind it”.
Is it so difficult for people to accept that a woman can be beautiful and smart?
Yes, especially for women. I look good because I want to feel good.
Do you support quotas for women in parliaments or on corporate boards?
Putting women on boards leads to more transparency, less corruption. It is a well-documented fact. I remember reading an interview where they were asking why there are not more women in the government of Hong Kong. The person answered, “Where would we find so many women! And in any case, we have a woman Chief Executive”. As if that is enough.
In my case, right now I choose to stand behind my husband. In a different situation, maybe I would change my mind. And I am not alone. I am a common case. A woman behind her man.
