“Conversations with Women” Series.
Jennifer Chan, Hong Kong’s Power Woman: “My DNA is a bit rebellious.”
Jennifer walked in with a big smile on her face. Tall, slender, she walks with her shoulders back, head high. Living in Hong Kong, she hikes to stay active, and as we chatted, I thought, now here is a woman that embodies a female role model. Born in Hong Kong, Jennifer spent her youth in the Netherlands. She returned to Hong Kong in the early 90s and started her career as a corporate banker and had worked in several prominent European banks. Today, she is the chairwoman of DT Capital and sits on a number of boards including the Competition Commision and Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce (HKGCC). She is the Chair of Women Executive Club and Vice Chair of Europe Committee of Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce. She has also won numerous awards over the years for her work, including “China’s 100 Outstanding Female Entrepreneurs”.
You lived for almost 20 years in Europe, before returning to Hong Kong. Do you see differences between women in Europe and women in Hong Kong? What are those differences?
Major differences. First of all, there is less emphasis on gender in Holland. In Hong Kong, there is. It’s been 20 years since I moved back to Hong Kong and I do see changes. But it is not fast enough in my observation. Women of my age, late 40s early 50s, they’re still quite traditional in Hong Kong. And there is a kind of taboo for successful female executives to admit that they are successful because they are women. “It’s not a gender issue”, they say. “I’m successful because I’m capable”.
Secondly, in Hong Kong, there are still a lot of family businesses. And most of the families want a son, the name carrier to continue the business. The most important positions of the company will go to the sons. As for the daughter, that will let her do the finance, admin, more the back office work.
Strangely enough, China is more advanced in that regard. Perhaps it’s because of the one-child policy? You have less of a gender issue because you only have one. All of the resources of the family will be invested into that one child. Doesn’t matter boy or girl. In my company, I often felt, if I hire a Mainland Chinese graduate, she’s much more aggressive than a Hong Kong Chinese woman.
Is there is a culture of women supporting women in Hong Kong? Women that have made it, supporting and encouraging other women to move up the ladder?
There is, more and more, but the development is not fast enough. I see little leaps and jumps here and there. Carrie Lam, our very first Chief Executive, has been instrumental in getting the conversation started. She promotes the female position in society, not only in business but in other types of organizations including not-for-profits. When she got elected, she apologized to the women for not fulfilling her campaign promise of getting a certain percentage of female members in the cabinet. Only 1+ years later, we observed more women being appointed in government commissions. I personally think she whispers, and in some cases dictates to the administration to try to get more women in various organizations. That gave a certain boost and encouragement to us all to do more.
Do you believe that gender quotas are necessary? And how can we get more women on boards? It is one thing to have women in mid-management positions and another thing to get women elected on boards of listed companies.
I am very confident about the pool of female talent in Hong Kong. And compared to Europe we are very privileged to have domestic helpers, from Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand. Child care is not an issue. In Europe, my sister has a full-time job, and she has to leave the office strictly at 5 to get her child from kindergarten at 6. If she’s late, she will be penalized. In Hong Kong we are privileged, we don’t have that issue in most of the households.
The change must also come from men. We organized a #heforshe event earlier this year and were so surprised to see half of the 600+ audience to be male. If we really want to make a change, we cannot make it as females alone. We need male support. Also, in Asia, we need a soft approach. If you see the #metoo movement, personally when I talk to my female friends, we consider in certain areas they went too far. It doesn’t really fit in the Hong Kong setting. You can achieve more by playing it soft. Educating our male opponents, “it is not that we want to replace you but it is that we believe it will be for the benefit of all.”
And as for getting women on boards, I think it should be a top-down approach. I’m probably one of the few females in Hong Kong, who is very positive about the quotas. If you interview a lot of those very successful women, they will say, “oh I don’t believe in that”. They are proud that they have come so far and they try to play down the fact that they are women. They will normally say in the interviews, “I got that position because I’m good and not because I’m a woman”.
I was very disappointed a few years ago when Hong Kong decided not to put in place gender quotas. I’m one of the few female board members in a listed company in Hong Kong. We were considering a 30% quota for corporate boards. We are now at 14%, not even half of the target. We are improving though. Laura Cha became the first female chairperson of the Hong Kong Stock Exchange this year. She has publicly stated that she wants to see more women on boards of Hong Kong-listed companies. I believe in the coming 4- 5 years we can get to the 30% quota.
Women in Hong Kong need a little bit more help from the top and at this moment whether we like it or not, the top positions in most companies are occupied by men.
I have asked this question to many of my respondents, and I would like to hear your perspective as well. Do you think it’s possible for a woman to have it all? A successful career, family, time to look after yourself.
First of all getting to the top and becoming a successful woman, you cannot do it alone.
Second, earning good money, having a top position in a company, all these are fine, but you also must like what you do. And if you like what you do, you will notice you will get energy from every single area that you are in. We’re so lucky nowadays, we live in the digital era, you don’t have to be physically in the place to do what you do. You can take care of a child while working on something. We no longer have a 9 to 5 culture. And more and more companies are receptive to flexible working hours.
We have a couple of fresh graduates in the company. We do have a contract that states 9 to 5, but I see if we let them be more flexible, they’re more than willing to reply at 10 in the evening or even on the weekend. They are also more eager to take ownership of the project that they’re working on.
What or who inspired you growing up? What inspires you now?
My DNA is a little bit rebellious. I come from a family of 5 kids. I’m the oldest of five. And the first four out of the five kids are girls. I clearly remember when my mother gave birth to her fourth daughter. She (my mother) spent two months in the hospital. That was in Holland. The doctor told her, highly recommended, to stop giving birth in the future. Not to have another kid as it could become very dangerous. She thought about it and then replied to the doctor, “I will continue until I have a son.” I was so shocked. I was 11 at the time. Why do my parents treat the girls that way? Are we not good enough that she’s even willing to risk her life to have a boy? And at that moment I thought I want to achieve more than a man. That situation inspired me. I wanted to show my parents that I’m no worse than a boy. I guess that was the motivational driver for me. Maybe for the wrong reason but it worked. Now, I have two daughters, 17 and 11, and I keep on telling them — I love them for who they are. Sometimes their grandmother tells them, “Don’t you miss having a brother?” and they say, “No.”
