Crypto Thoughts — Reading ANN on Bitcoin Cash
First
Given that some good articles have been written and published on Bitcoin Cash, I rather thought I will read ANN on Bitcoin Cash. Now if you want to get some quick knowledge or original content on Bitcoin Cash I would rather suggest you to go some where else. This is only for popcorn lovers who would like to read a long post and get some insights on what people think about Bitcoin Cash. I have given precedence to all that is anti-Bitcoin cash as I personally do not support it. But still you will find some interesting insights if you read it through. And again this is not an original content rather just a set of copy paste hence please bear with the lousy post.
My View
I feel a hard fork is the fork of the chain exposing the users of replay attack and many exchanges and miners and dev are rightly angry coz not enough time nor thought given to the fork.In fact facts are coming out as we go. One big issue i see is the 8mb block size if am right that will take many small time recreational miners out of the game and also will give too much power to ant miners. Next big issue is the centralization of Blockchain. As you would need powerful nodes and much faster network to really prevent the man in the middle attack Another big issue is the official bcc wallet is the bitcoinabc wallet which is a full node … No one rally knows how exchanges and wallets are ready for the hard fork. Very irresponsible on behalf of viabtc and a small section of the miners to expose so many users of btc to a kind of hard fork that many are not ready or understand to a limited extent
Altcoins run on a different port and they change consensus mechanism and though they start with the code.But this fork is both code and chain so very risky. And what bcc is selling is that you use both btc and bcc so the risk of these users heightened. I think many are doing so they selling Altcoins and hoarding tagin my thought to dump bcc after Aug 1
The Comments
Major aspect to Note
It’s not an airdrop — the OP is mistaken. It’s a chain split. Takes place on August 1st.
One of the big issues that I feel is what this comment shares
Nope. Bitcoin nodes must work in byzantine environments -
https://iancoleman.github.io/blocksize/#block-size=8
Down: 0.447
Up: 3.132
This will be too much for many regions around the world.
Additionally, 8MB blocks are going to need a ton of RAM for that UTXO set . 4MB of Ram isn’t going to cut it.Additionally, mining centralization will be far worse due to block propagation latency.
We really don’t know how quickly 8MB will get full. My guess is very quickly due to the fact that mining will be far more centralized with this chain so it will be easier for Bitmain to spam the blocks and fee snipe. Their capacity roadmap has a very aggressive position on HF larger blocks quickly so I expect them to do this. Additionally, miners and the users will want to create the appearance of popularity so they will insure to fill up the blocks with spam.
The problem isn’t so much downloading them, the problem is the wallet is slower than shit syncing them. there has to be a better way. 7.34% after 21 hours is just well…. pathetic. what’ll kill your wallet sir, is after 6 months it’ll take a year to sync the damn thing. you guys haven’t addressed that problem and made speed syncing possible.
Much worse than this , as the 10 minutes is merely the average. You could be waiting hours for the first confirmation , even if the blocks are near empty.
Any idea about the roadmap of Bitcoin Cash? When do they plan to upgrade to Segwit?
Never. ASICBOOST optimization doesn’t work with that.
Everything that does Segwit can be done as also hard fork, as the malleability fix.
Even if they do manage to fix all the problems with flex trans and HF in this change , I don’t see this happening anytime soon and if it does happen in 6 months I guarantee there is going to be some severe bugs
By than bitcoin BTC will be using LN for months with more competent devs supporting it
Interesting comments regarding BCC enabled wallet which I think all people wanting BCC/BCH should know
You won’t need to claim it, you will just need to download the BCC wallet client with your current bitcoin private key. If you have funds, depending on what exchange its on they will automatically credit it to you.
The best tip I can give you for protecting your crypto investments is to make sure that you have control of the keys (hardware wallets, paper wallets, most wallets with a “backup” option). Sadly, this is still difficult for all but the most popular cryptocurrencies. Don’t store your investments on exchanges which have an improving but still dreadful track-record: about a third of all cryptocurrency exchanges that have ever existed have failed, often leaving the users with nothing.
`Every “BCC-capable” wallet I’ve seen so far is simply a Bitcoin Cash wallet and does not handle BTC. Be careful! there is a real risk that someone will put out a “Bitcoin Cash wallet” to learn your private keys and steal your BTC.
One idea is to move your bitcoins (say 12 bitcoins) to an address (say 1abc…) you control (you have the private key or mnemonic seed), wait until the blockchain forks, and then send all 12 bitcoins normally to some other address of yours (say 1def…). Once the bitcoins are safely at 1def… you can give the 1abc… private key to a Bitcoin Cash wallet and it will find 12 BCH at your 1abc… address, ready to send.
If you start with 12 bitcoins (under your control) then, after the fork, you will have 12 BCH and 12 BTC. If your bitcoins are on an exchange or in some bank-like online wallet then you may or may not receive any BCH (ask your provider to issue a statement regarding BCH).
Your money will not really double. You will have twice as many coins but those coins will be worth less than the coins you had before the fork.
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I have already stored my bitcoin fund in a wallet that can provide me the private keys
So downloading wallet provided by https://bitcoinclassic.com/downloads/index.html
and restoring my private keys with the wallet to get my bitcoincash.
Is that all?
1: Store BTC’s in wallet that can provide private keys.
2: Await the Bitcoin Cash fork.
3: After the fork, get a Bitcoin Cash wallet that supports private keys.
4: Import private keys from your BTC, into your Bitcoin Cash wallet.
5: Done…
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Best and logical way to deal with upcoming situation is to keep holding your both coins for a while. It will not be wise move at all to dump and move on. I will long on for this as well though it is purely an altcoin but receiving free doesn’t mean to dump quickly. It is recommended to not hurry before letting the network become stable.
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Is there any chance for our private keys getting stolen when we import them in a possible rogue BitcoinABC wallet?
Yes. However, sticking to the official links posted by the OP should be OK, especially since the OP is a bitcointalk staff member. Plus, I don’t think Bitmain, who backed the development of this coin, would sacrifice their reputation on releasing a trojan. But you never know in this crazy cryptocoin community.
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Is it ok to keep bitcoin in mycelium wallet. Will I able to get Bitcoin Cash from that wallet. Yes, you can export the private keys with this tool https://github.com/iancoleman/bip39 And import them in a compatible Bitcoin Cash wallet.
There were conspiracy theories behind the BCC hard fork
As far as I know, viabtc Yang Qishi did not much stock, similar to the workers, being to it, we are all adults, all know who is behind, who who back the pot, not quite! bitman wujihan is the bcc boss ,he want bitcoin to be wujicoin
Bitmain wants Bitcoin ABC to succeed but they can not officially support it; bad form since they are signaling support for NYA, so they are using ViaBTC to do their work for them. ViaBTC does not support NYA. According to Samson Mow it is widely known in China that Bitmain is behind ViaBTC.
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Bitcoin.com , antpool, and viabtc will donate a % of their hashrate to this alt. Presumably since Bitmain controls so much hashrate directly and indirectly via selling 70% of ASICs they are confident this alt wont be attacked even if it has less than 10% of network hashrate %
Basically this coin places a lot of faith in Bitmain who looks like where the dev costs are being funded through as well
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Errrr, no. The miners try to bully, cheat and manipulate the system. Just like a government. Well, you’re about to find out that Jihan, for all his studies in psychology, has got this one badly wrong. Price is immaterial, fat cats and their greedy cartels can jog on.
Think of it as a long overdue Brexit for Bitcoin. How did that pan out for the corrupt elites?
Enjoy the dumpfest.
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There were some especial hard words for BCC which as a supporter of BTC I can not miss out
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- Why do you think there gonna be a split at first place?
- Why you do think that even claimed and recived after the split if happens you will be able to spent them
- Finally BCC shit initiative is coming from so called “small Chinese” farms and pools well know with their addiction to SPV mining + empty blocks with 0 TX — Which literally translates to you will send them in nowhere for a long time Grin]
- Why do you think they will cost > 0?
- Finally if you receive them you might be able to spent them loosing all of your BTC Grin
FUNNY
I would be very happy to see how SPV will fork this shit on a first day Grin`
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Who cares about BCC free shit. I salute them for their decision! They clearly stated that who wants this shit shall transfer their BTC somewhere else PERIOD! Even though that equals to stop using their service! GOT IT?
Nobody is stealing from this useless shit my friend Grin They just do not support it and that is all.
Probably they just do not want to put at risk a lot of BTC importing private keys in some buggy wallets also Grin
Who wants BCC to deal with IT on his own. Simple as that. I am already hearing screams….SHIIIIT i lost all of my BTC what shall i do…
And we know that will happen to folks but then the only thing that they can do is to Fxxk oxf, because nobody is listening and nobody knows what he is doing. I want free coins also but in order to get them i should know how to get them, and i should be aware what is the risk involved.
Ask yourself the above questions and then go and take them if you are brave enough Grin
Peace
PS:
This shit does not even have a TESTNET and it is going life after a few days only COMPLETELY UNTESTED hitting 40 bln market Grin
Yeah go and grab you precious BCC but you already know why coinbase does not care about them right?
Do you wanna coinbase to make tests with your BTC?
I don’t what about you?
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Sold all my BTC for BCC. Thanks Viabtc for leading the way!
So you sold your trustless, decentralized cryptocurrency, where you held your own private keys, for a promissory note of a coin that doesn’t exist, held by a trusted third party?
I think the significance of decentralized cryptocurrencies has gone over your head.
`
Most other coins I’ve used that forked, you only had to download the blockchain from the point of split. you didn’t have to do a full sync, the drawback was you couldn’t use the old tokens in the new wallet. the drawback with bitcoin ABC is the entire bitcoin blockchain is a beast. 99 gigs. it’s a monster and takes several days to sync a wallet. the devs haven’t devised a really fast way to sync a wallet. what they’re doing now is like putting lipstick on a pig, it doesn’t address the problem of painfully slow syncing. there’s also another problem, alot of ISP’s won’t let you do that big of a download. to get around that you have to truncate the chain.
I don’t think Bitcoin Cash will have any noticeable effect on the market. Just look at coinmarketcap — how many altcoins have the word “Bitcoin” in the name? There’s Bitcoin TX, Bitcoin Plus, Bitcoin Dark, and a few more. Nobody cares about these fake bitcoins. Bitcoin Cash will probably be just another me-too-coin.
This was a great comment about comparing the current scpeticism of BCC which there was earlier for ETC
I remember everyone saying ETC would be forgotten within a week, and many people including me dumped ECT, well I regret doing that. If only I ignored stupid trolls and FUDstars and keep my free ETC I’d be $100k better today. I nobody unless idiots are enjoying this senseless fork news dragging back and forth, time to get it over with.
The below picture gives an idea of the exchanges & wallets that may/will support BCC
The below response helps to understand some features of BCC
Although BTC will continue to allow a limited amount of on-chain transactions, and BC is expected to (edit: eventually) implement a malleability fix, which will also simplify Lightning-style off-chain transactions on that chain as well.
In the immediate term, the 8MB is a hard cap — at least within the BitcoinABC client*. It is expected to implement further increases to the max block size ahead of such time as the current cap is hit. In this manner, such a hard fork is inherently non-contentious. And this incidentally matches satoshi’s statement of how such an increase might be implemented throuhg a simple flag day fix tied to a given block height.
Note that other clients, such as BU, XT, Classic, core patched with a simple block size increase, etc. are also compatible with the BC chain.
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no , still 2016 block retarget, but they drop difficulty down substantially so 5–15% network hashrate can handle their alt within 10 min avgs out of the gate
It won’t have tx malleability fix, so no cool features like Lightning network on this alt anytime soon(if ever because Jihan opposes fixing malleability), thus this alt will start off with up to 56 transactions per second and BTc will support millions of transactions per second with wallets like this -
https://medium.com/@ACINQ/announcing-eclair-wallet-a8d8c136fc7e
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Notice that with full, 8MB blocks, BitcoinCash’s blockchain would grow this much by mid-November. I don’t expect BitcoinCash’s blocks will be anywhere near full but I think this observation highlights the BitcoinCash philosophy. Long term, the initial 123.4 GB is but a drop in the bucket.
This comment cast doubt on the Block size of 8 MB helping miners
For the users a block size of 8MB sounds goods. But I cannot imagine that miners would opt for this because it would reduce their revenues. The more blocks they can compute the higher their revenues are.
I liked this prediction and the analysis as to how the Bitcoin prices are fixed and what may happen to BTC price after Aug 1
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For question 3: What will happen with Bitcoin price 24 hours after hark fork?
Answer this question first, what is the most important thing that decide Bitcoin’s price? There’s definitely not a certain answer. We could realize that there has been a strong resistance at 2800–2900USD when Bitcoin price moves up for recent months. Who built that resistance, Who wants and who tries to break it? Resistance is often built by big Bitcoin holders who could not hold Bitcoin for longer time and they want to sell Bitcoin for profit at certain price. Between big holders, miners are very important because they’re more active in trading than non-miner holders. Remember that there’re about 1800BTC or about 5.000.000 USD mined everyday. It seems that most of these bitcoins will be circulated for trading due to mining cost.
Who want to break the wall? The answer is simple, everyone wants that. But who want Bitcoin to go down? It seems a hard question. Think about this example for the answer. “Bob has a lot of money. Bob wants to invest in Bitcoin. If using all of his money, Bob could push bitcoin’s price to 4000USD. But this action will lead to not much profit for him or even loss. Bob wishes Bitcoin to go down as much as possible so that Bob could buy enough Bitcoin before Bob decides to push Bitcoin up so that Bob will secure 100% profit.”
Bitcoin in particular or Cryptocurrency in general, price movement is game of “whales”. Decisions of “whales” are very important. If you’re not a “whale”, how could you know “whales’ decisions”? I give an example for you to guess the answer. “Bob is a long-term investor in Bitcoin, He has collected a lot of Bitcoin. He believes that Bitcoin price will be at least 10000USD/BTC at the end of this year. Then he decides not to sell any of his Bitcoin under 10000USD in any circumstances. He is not afraid of any forks or Bitcoin upgrades. He wishes Bitcoin to fully developed as quick as possible. He knows that if holding his bitcoin wallet’s private key, he will also own Bitcoin of any forks. Mary is also a “whale”. Mary is uncertain about Bitcoin’s future. Mary wants Bitcoin grow up without any changes (forks). She’s afraid of Bitcoin retraction which leads to her loss. She decides to sell a big amount of Bitcoin when Bitcoin price starts to go down. When storms go away, Bitcoin’s price go over 3000USD, Mary decides to buy Bitcoin again. This time, she believes that Bitcoin will go up further. John is also a “whale”, John has a lot of money; however unfortunately, there’re a lot of reasons lead him lost. He want to recover his loss in a short duration. He thinks that Bitcoin splitting is good for his chances. Old Bitcoin does not bring him profit, he believes new chain investment will be different. He decides to sell all of his Bitcoin and prepare for buying new Bitcoin when it’s available. Adam is also a “whale”. He thinks simply, he will sell all of his new Bitcoin when he retrieves it. At least, he will have a good profit.”
From examples above, we can guess which factor creates resistance’s wall. We also see that all kind of “whales” wish Bitcoin and all of its new version to grow up. Once Bitcoin splits successfully, the optimism about both old and new Bitcoin version will come if the new one runs smoothly within first few hours. More hashrate power will be poured into mining all kind of Bitcoins. These hashrates are mainly transferred from altcoins’ mining. Resistance’s wall will be removed and leveled up due to increased difficulty in Bitcoin mining. Whales’ power will be more powerful to move Bitcoin much further. It’s clear now to see that current Bitcoin and new Bitcoin will move up greatly after hard fork if new chain emerges perfectly. Bitcoin and its new version will dominate the first and second place on CoinMarketCap for sure.
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Reddit link on Bitcoin Cash Node release
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/6q4add/bitcoin_unlimited_cash_edition_1100_has_just_been/?sort=confidence
There some general comments as who may profit from the Aug 1 Hard fork
- “Big whales will get benefits from this HF event so I believe big players are involve into this game of profit. I think they will create hype about this coin and than dump to new people to let them with huge bags.”
There were some interesting thoughts on BTC/BCC fork & about a relatively unknown airdrop of BTC called BXT
I just dont know how i feel about a fork of bitcoin
that allows anyone who has the majority of the btc to have
the majority of bcc… why did you not clone bitcoin make
your changes and start mining over . seems your killing the price
immediately with a premine in a way .
lets say im a new user day zero . why would i invest
when there are already millions of coins
When you start from scratch a new coin you have no distribution of coins.
With BCC/BCH the distribution is huge!
There is a smal version of BCC called BTX that did the same but they created a snapshot of all the BTC balances in April.
You can claim your BTX here: http://bitcore.cc/
They have just a value of about $ 1.50
They have a very small blockchain because of the snapshot and I like that approach.
They have good potential distribution but the value now is too small the claim your BTX you had in April only 1 or 2 BTC.
With BCC you get also the complete history of transactions and maybe that creates value in the new chain.
BCC can grow big and maybe BTX can profit a bit from that.
Unfortunately I had only BTC on exchanges in April, so for me no BTX of I have to mine of buy.
There has been some confusion over BCC & BCH and this comment helped to clarify it
`I’m confused now. What is the official ticker of bitcoin cash, BCC or BCH?
The official ticker is BCC. The office of ViaBTC introduced Bitcoin Cash with the ticker “BCC” and continue to use this ticker on their exchange.
Sadly, the official ticker conflicts with the ticker BCC used in many places to refer to BitConnect Coin. This conflict has had the community looking for an alternative ticker for Bitcoin Cash. Over the past two weeks, the community has considered BTCC, ABC, BC, and BCH among others. Having been introduced by the influential Bitfinex and quickly adopted by Kraken, BCH seems to be winning out as the unofficial ticker.`
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Please don’t support cloud mining(most are scams and those that aren’t harm the security of the coin) or investing in “futures” (tokens that don’t even exist or may never) or support exchanges that freeze clients assets instead of allowing them to withdraw.
Also please stop using that ticker as it is confusing others due to an altcoin already using it with a 400 million dollar market cap . WTF was VIABTC thinking?
If you want to trade this alt wait till more legit exchanges like bitfinix, bitsquare or polo list it without any restrictions.
`
In the craze for BCC new forums and wallets are also getting created
- There is a new dedicated forum: http://www.bccforums.net
- Electrum Cash is now Electron Cash: http://www.electroncash.org
And in the below link there were some who were trying to cash on the BCC frenzy
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If you didn’t know bitcoins is splitting into bitcoins (BTC) and bitcoin cash (BCC)
I have a live hub for all my domains: www.bcctraders.com
So far I own:
bccforums.org
bccforums.net
bccpool.net
bcctalk.net
bccshop.net
bcctraders.com
bccexchangers.com
bccexchange.net
bccexchange.org
I will be updating this list
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http://www.bccforums.net/index.php?threads/stocking-up-on-bitcoin-cash-domains.1/
There were some comments that put doubt of the value of BTC & BCC/BCH after the split
Free coins doesn’t mean btc + bcc will be a better investment than in other altcoins. Personally I would suggest a split between both bitcoin and various alts and sell the bcc as soon as you get it.
`It is not even could be considered as “free coins”, the price of bitcoin is going to be split between bitcoin cash and the regular bitcoin, so you are actually not getting anything, just having your bitcoin being splitted into two different cryptocurrencies
As a bitcoin holder I am not so happy about that
`
There was also an interesting mention of ZenCash that may give an indicator to the fate of BCC/BCH
`Very similar thing happened to ZenCash. After the fork it was listed on Bittrex, and starting price was 16–18.Justafewdayslaterpricedroppedto4−6. Just a few days later price dropped to 4–6.Justafewdayslaterpricedroppedto4−6 and its still in those regions.
Once the holders get that it will go nowhere, they will dump it to the ground`
For a bit of history on ZeCash one can read this great post
These comments gives some relevant parts related to how the block number will be decided for the hard fork that is planned to happen
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The fork block is the first block connected to a block with MTP of 2017 Aug 1 12:20 UTC.
MTP is the median timestamp of the 11 blocks leading up to and including that prior block.
It’s likely, but assured, that the fork block will happen later than 12:20 wall clock time, because MTP generally lags the wall clock by an hour or so.
Reorgs are also possible.
As I understand it (and I could easily be wrong here), the first block will likely be even further delayed because only a small fraction of Bitcoin’s hashrate will attempt to build the Bitcoin Cash branch.
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2040221.msg20489592#msg20489592
If you’d like to compare this fork to an altcoin airdrop then the snapshot will be taken when the fork begins (sometime after August 1st, 12:20pm UTC).
Bitcoin Classic and Bitcoin Unlimited have also announced support, so a range of clients should be available before the split.
Comments on optimisim on non-impact of BTC/BCC 1:1 Fork
- “No nothing to worry about BTC may even see a huge gain from this due to the new buys from selling off the BCC/BCH”
- “Bitcoin price will not affected too much by this fork because only few supported on BCC. A 1:1 scale is insane for BTC.”
- You need to respect such announcements. I will follow this thread. 20% of BTC value is huge, I’m really curious if it will have a good effect on BTC (added value as mentioned in this thread already)…
-I’m glad this is happening. I don’t agree with either “side” in this whole debacle, but I’m still glad that a chain split is happening as it gives some protection against a segwit fuckup.
Comments on those who sold alts at low price to buy BTC for the day of Chain split
- “I actually really feel sorry for all those people who sold their altcoins at a loss for bitcoin because of this. What a sham. My advice is, buy back in to your alts before the split, or it will hurt.”
- “selling the altcoins just when everybody else is selling,is a very bad move.”
- “That’s why I think it is silly that many are dumping their alts to get BTC so they can get free BCC. I recommend anyone who has faith in their alt to pick up cheap bargains right now.Edit:Just checked the Polo markets. Looks like the smart ones already are doing just that.”
- Prepaid phone startup Bitrefill has developed a creative way of dealing with this problem. Like other small firms with limited resources, it does not plan to support the competing cryptocurrency. Instead, it plans to sell all of the Bitcoin Cash it accumulates in exchange for bitcoin — later dividing these funds between users, proportional to the amount of bitcoin each holds with the company
- You commented without reading the whitepaper though. The retarget is addressed, so this is not an issue. Second, there are already futures markets trading this coin and so it will have value. As it has value, it will have hashrate. Also, replay protection has been added. It will definitely not “die instantaneously”.
This scepticism regarding segwit caught me which sums up a bad situation the whole Bitcoin fork saga is in
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To bad some people still live in denial, and dont know a fork must happen, one way or another.
This is the real threath bitcoin has today, those conversative people who think everything can still stay the same.
I dont blame bitcoin cash for forking earlier due to a very dumb approach to solve the problem in 100 steps everytime damaging the market.
Only segwit is no option for now.
First upgrade the mb size then, we can be creative again in finding new and better solutions in the future.
Instead of crippling bitcoin with segwit, to make it walk on one leg and starve into dead to make it faster kind of shit.
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Finish
This comment on Hard fork is what I can make as my Conclusion
Cryptocurrency has a reverse Schelling poinit because network effect assumes infinite scalability. It’s inevitable people either leave the main chain or fork off from it to avoid usury fees. The most likely outcome is death by dilution if there’s no gigantic scaling solution (I don’t consider LN the fix for this problem).

