Why does play matter to us?
Discussion with Wei-Han Chen and Shilpa Sivaraman
Wei-Han Chen and Shilpa Sivaraman are invited together with host Misato Ehara to discuss the current exhibition — Play Well in the Wellcome Collection, London.
Transcript
Misato (M): Hello, hello, hello! This discussion is held by Kingston School of Art, Curating Contemporary Design in partnership with the Design Museum. I am today’s host, Misato Ehara. Hello! We are very lucky to have our two lovely classmates here with us today. Hello, Wei-Han and Shilpa, could you introduce yourselves a little bit, please?
Wei-Han (W): Hi, I am Wei-Han Chen, I’m from Taiwan, I have 2–3 years of working experience in a social marketing company and in that role. I have some experience in designing exhibitions for children. Also, I have experience in designing playgrounds with children and designers in the capital of Taiwan, Taipei.
Shilpa (S): Hi, I’m Shilpa Sivaraman, I did Bachelor study in Product Design, and I am from India. I’m currently doing my Master’s degree in Curation.
M: Oh, great! I am very excited. Together with Wei-Han and Shilpa, we would like to discuss the current exhibition Play Well at the Wellcome Collection. Play Well explores how play transforms both childhood and society. It has two main strands, it focuses on the physical and social aspects of play but also captures the growth and widespread use of digital play. So you two, what makes you interested in the Play Well exhibition at the Wellcome Collection? Maybe starting with Wei-Han?
W: First of all I would say that because I’m a playful person that always likes to play. And also I know that play is not only important to children but also important to adults. So it’s great to see an exhibition that talks about play, and how we can all play well. So, that’s why I’m interested in this exhibition.
S: For me as you (Wei-Han) said, it explores the importance of play in childhood, but also explores the different age range and how important it (play) is to create social bond among everyone.
M: Before we go into the discussion, I was curious about how this conversation will influence our thoughts. Could you both rate the Play Well exhibition out of 10?
S: I would give a 7.
W: I would give a 7, too.
M: That’s a very interesting score. It’s not too bad, not too good. So you want to point out something you would improve? Great. Maybe would you want to talk about that, if you were the curator of this exhibition?
W: Well, for me, I think Play Well brings up the things about play like education or the social bond (of play), and a lot of key things together. But I think there’s one point that I really expect but there’s not showing is the adult play, the play for adults, because it talks about how we can all play well. So, it should include play for different age. So, that is why I don’t give it eight or nine, I think it (this exhibition) can be improved. But apart from that, it (the exhibit) is well developed.
S: From my region, we have those kind of games that everyone from every age range can play together. It would have been interesting if they tried to include something like this.
M: Oh yeah, I would love to know what kind of games you used to play when you were kids!
W: So for me, a unique thing (game) that I like is marbles. Marble is like a little ball made from glass, and it’s got different colours and the size. When I was a kid, I really liked to collect them. Also, there are lots of games you can play with these little balls on the ground, you can play something similar to pool and golf. You just need to have a lot of creativity to play with marbles and to create new games for yourselves. I think it (marbles) has changed around 10 years ago. There was an update on marble with this robot, you can put the marble in the robot’s stomach, and you can shoot the marble, children really liked it. So the marble evolved over generations, children invent new ways to play it. I think that is a really unique thing and how it (marble) changed from my childhood to now.
M: Oh that’s very interesting. Shilpa, what kind of games you were playing and how it’s changed over time?
S: For me, we used to have a game called Mud Football. It is a game from my region itself. I am from Kerala, the Southern part of India. We had a lot of paddy fields and muddy places. Everyone used to play football in the mud, it might sound very dirty for other people, but it was the most fun game for us. But currently, we don’t have such open spaces, because it’s mostly buildings and it is like taken by people. Before there were open spaces for everyone to come and play and even strangers can join us and we will start playing together. It was so much fun when I was a child, but now I can see very few people playing football outside.
M: It’s a very interesting point to talk about, because it’s happening everywhere to our societies. Open spaces are taken by adults or industries and we are losing more and more spaces to play outside. In a way, we are forced back inside to play digital games.
M: I think Shilpa gave us an interesting point to talk about which was how we play, how it has changed over time from physical and intuitive play, to digital and maybe more intuitive in a way. How do you think this change will affect play in childhood?
S: For me, playing outside always helped to break the ice between friends and when I meet new people, we will decide let’s play this and that enables me to create more social bonding moments with people. Right now, the digital medium (games) has emerged, and they almost replaced the physical play. People have reverted into themselves and constantly look at mobile screens, not socially interacting with others or playing with others.
M: I don’t really play digital games, but I’ve also heard that they can communicate with each other virtually on the game platform. Like if I’m in Japan, I can talk to someone playing in Brazil. So you can say people are still communicating with each other virtually. Do you think that is different from physical communication?
W: (Where I grew up, Taiwan) We used to play in the playground or just on the street, so we can have not only verbal but also physical connections. We can learn how to touch people and talk to people in a way that all of us are comfortable with. But in the online world, we don’t know who they are, so we can say mean things to them. I think that really changed how we connect to people and have a conversation with people. Also, another issue I have with the digital is that digital play sometimes identifies how to play the game. When I was a kid, I didn’t know how to play some games. We created (the rules) again, or tried to reinterpret objects, maybe it could be a ticket or a book or something. But in digital play it has already identified what an object is, there’s a goal, there’s a thing you have to do. So I think that will contribute to the lack of creativity for children’s learning.
S: I completely agree with Wei-Han because we also used to create our own games. We explored different ways of playing.
M: So in this exhibition, the exhibition starts from the very physical and wooden toy to doll, and digital games. So they (the curator) talk about how play changed, but it doesn’t really tell us about what next, or how we should play in the future or how play should evolve from here. Every news medium talks about the problems of addiction caused by digital games, but not the solution. Maybe this exhibition wasn’t intended to give us a solution, but what would you think about this? Should we just dump all the digital toys and go back to the wooden toys?
W: I think physical and digital play has both pros and cons, it would be good to get people to think about the pros and cons, about the different approach to play, and how we can play well in the future. What will we like to give our future children? What surrounding experience do we want to give them? I think it could have been really good if the exhibition asked a question at the end (in the final section).
S: It would have been more interesting, if they had some kind of interactive physical games that people can play within the exhibit space. There are digital games that you can play at the end of the exhibition but not games that allow you to sit there and play by yourself or with others. You can bring back the old game, and you can tell the audiences you can try it. So it would have been interesting, if there was something like that.
M: So both of you think that maybe we should, the Wellcome Collection could have asked a question like “How do you guys want to play?” instead of showcasing the transition of play. This is a different narrative that we would have improved upon if we could. So we started to talk about the narrative of the exhibition and how this exhibition ends, can we choose one or two objects from the exhibition to highlight?
S: I really like the Barbie and G.I. Joe toys. (Footnote: It was the Barbie Liberation Organization’s radical project: Swapping the voice of ‘Talking Duke’ G.I Joes and ‘Teen Talk’ Barbies and replacing the dolls on the shelves of toy stores.) It completely swapped the voices of male and female characters and illustrated how stereotypes are represented in children’s toys. A G.I. Joe would say “I want to go shopping!” with Barbie’s voice. This really broke the stereotypical views of people by designing toys. It was really interesting for me to see that.
M: That toy really struck me as well. When you were a kid, you don’t really think about how toys can affect the way you think and how you view society. Now I am a grown-up and looking at how they are making toys and how they are sending this wrong message to the kids.
S: Even when I was a kid, my parents used to buy Barbie dolls, and Teddy Bears but it was not something I wanted. You are a girl, so play with these. It was that kind of mentality.
M: Someone told me something interesting about Hello Kitty, the other day. Hello Kitty is a white cat, very cute and very small, often with pink or red clothing. Hello Kitty usually has a very small mouth or sometimes even no mouth at all and that implies that girls are not supposed to say something or talk. I didn’t really think about that, but now looking back, it was the wrong message to send to kids.
S: I also came across one boy collecting teddy bears, his parents were literally scolding him (the son), saying; “Why are you collecting teddy bears? You are a boy!”. And those kind of things have to change. So it was interesting to see something like BLO’s project in the exhibition.
M: What about you, Wei-Han?
W: My favourite is ‘All of Us Are Myself’ by Adam James. This is the installation with a lot of ambiguous objects in the playground and it is located in the centre of the exhibition space. You can see the installation when you go through the exhibition. What is really interesting about it is because these objects are ambiguous, you cannot identify what they are. The artist wanted to encourage people to have creativity and collaboration in this game. You can play with these objects, identify what they are and create your own rules and games with this installation. I think the idea is really really great and I love it!
W: It was unfortunate about the handling of these objects and the installation as there was always staff there but they didn’t invite people to play with the installation. They are more like security who just stared at people so that they did not damage the objects. So people get very stressed and think should I play with this? The installation is (aesthetically) very beautiful but also heavy. How can people play with these? Will they damage it if they play with the objects? So it was a real pity. I know that the Wellcome Collection held a workshop where people could interact with the artist and play with similar objects. The artist arranged and guided people to play with the objects. It’s a great opportunity to talk with the artist, but the workshop happens only 2 or 3 times a week. So not like everyday will (people) have the opportunity to engage with the objects or installation. If there’s an installation in the exhibition, they should think about a better way to work with the installation inside of the exhibition, not through additional workshops.
M: So the exhibition could have been more effective and engaging not only for kids but also for adults to play with the installation.
W: I have been to the exhibition 4 or 5 times so far. In the beginning, they had 5 or 6 objects in total, but after visiting a couple of times, there are only a couple of objects left. People would think that there is a schedule to play with the objects in the installation. This could be a limit for people to play with the installation. I asked staff there (at the Wellcome Collection) why they have less objects. They said: it is because some people just damage the object. It’s really sad to hear that. I think if they wanted to install the physical objects, they should also think about the durability of the material, to prevent the damage of the objects. People will just want to play and won’t think about how to take care of these objects.
M: That is actually a very interesting thing to think about. I personally am very interested in how we can engage people and let them touch the showcased objects. Because touching is a very important and integral part of learning and enjoying objects in the exhibition but due to the vulnerability of the objects, curators and institutions have to limit the access and way of showcasing. Sometimes it is in a glass case. In a way, the Wellcome Collection challenged themselves to put the large installation (on display) so that people can interact with them. But, unfortunately, they had to remove some of the toys, because they’re damaged. They are also responsible for taking care of the objects installed. It’s a very very hard question and we have to keep asking ourselves, what kind of material we can use to make it available and touchable (durable) for everyone to play with?
S: I think exhibition design plays an important role in such exhibitions. We have to see how the audience interacts with the space, and how they see the objects. Are these spaces welcoming for them? Do they really want to go and engage with the space? So I think the exhibition design plays a very important role, like how they’re (the curator) going to display and tackle this.
M: What did you think about your first impressions when you stepped into the exhibition?
S: In the beginning, I really like the type (typography) of the exhibition, it was fun and the yellow colour of the (exhibition) pamphlet. In some spaces, I felt like it was a bit dull and the installation with objects was very grand and beautiful, but it made me feel like are we weren’t supposed to go over there? Are we supposed to touch them? So I was a bit confused in that (particular) space.
M: Did you think the space itself was a little bit dark or bright enough to see?
S: In some spaces, I felt like it’s a bit dark for me, it didn’t feel playful. Maybe it’s because of the space itself, it’s a closed area. Back in India, I have been to one exhibition that is related to play but it was in an outdoor space with installations that people can just swing, sit, dance and play. That one felt more playful for me. This one (exhibition) was more of the information and story of how play changed from one time to another.
M: What about you Wei-Han?
W: The light is a little dim, but my first thought of it (the exhibition) is like, wow, there’s a lot of like giant building blocks and like posh toy shaped things in the whole exhibition design. They use, like, the dim light and the lighter colour to express it. So, I think it is a good way to make adults feel excited, but it’s not too exciting for children. They will want to shout or play or like get mad in this space.
M: So what are your comments on display methods?
S: The exhibition tried to explore play with different materials, especially a lot with the film medium and also tried to incorporate physical and digital objects in accordance with the physical timeline and how the evolution of toys has changed from the physical object to the digital object. It was an interesting form of storytelling. It (the exhibition) would have been better if there were some more attractive spaces or materials other than toys. Maybe you could try out older games, some I don’t even know, it would have been interesting to try them out.
M: I think it was for preservation purposes but most of the toys were inside glass cases, so maybe it would have been better if there were more not under glass.
S: Yeah, like recreate the old ones. Also, one interesting fact was how they displayed things and curved certain parts of the display (exhibition) spaces and products. Most of the small children coming there and visiting the centre were taken into account in terms of exhibition design and safety. There were bright, primary colours used in the spaces also.
M: What do you think Wei-Han?
W: I think it was great that it (the exhibition) has variety with objects, like photography, film, toys and digital objects so people can explore all of the things related to play. They won’t get bored when they go through the exhibition as there are a lot of surprises and messages behind the objects. So I think this will attract people and I think what Shilpa mentioned about it being playful but in dim light with the curves in the exhibition design made it interesting too. There was a balance between the exhibition looking childish for children and mature for adults.
M: Yes, I was thinking about who the Wellcome Collection actually wanted to talk to through the exhibition? Maybe when we talk about play, we think we would want young kids or children to attend this exhibition but maybe it was more for adults who have forgotten how to play. Perhaps the Wellcome Collection wanted to talk to them and ask them is this how you guys used to play?
W: The (exhibition) text catered to the adults but they still made the experience open for children to play. The installation in the centre of the exhibition and digital games in the end, children will love them! Children can get involved with it (the exhibition).
M: When I went there (to the Wellcome Collection) a lot of families and people over the age of 65 years old, a lot of different age groups were enjoying that exhibition. That shows just how play relates to everyone. When I first went to the exhibition I thought it was targeted at children but it made me think about what kind of toys I used to play with when I was a kid. So maybe this exhibition was talking to families and adults, less to children. The graphic design was playful, more mature and not too childish.
W: I think it is interesting that the exhibition design and poster was in collaboration with children. They (curators/exhibition designers) went to primary schools in London and they thought about colours and materials that they found and that children played with. Children got involved with the whole design too. This is children telling us what they like.
M: I think we have talked a lot about this exhibition. Do you have any final comments?
S: I think there is childishness in everyone. So it doesn’t matter how childish it is or playful, it is open for everyone in case they want to explore. It is not just for one age range.
M: There we go!
W: That’s why I wanted adult play to be in this exhibition, it would be really nice, adults should play too for more creative and educational things (purposes).
M: Very inspirational final comments. Thank you Wei-Han and Shilpa for coming to talk to us about the exhibition today. We would love you to come back and talk about another exhibition in the future.
W: The exhibition will go on (continue) so maybe the public can go and visit it themselves.
M: Yes please go to the Wellcome Collection, it’s an amazing collection that everyone can go to enjoy. On that note we will wrap up this discussion, stay playful, stay tuned.
Behind the discussion…
Host: Misato Ehara
Speakers: Wei-Han Chen and Shilpa Sivaraman
Transcript editing: Carmel Wilkinson-Ayre and Misato Ehara
Recording and audio editing: Patina(PinChieh Pan)
