Duality, truth, and purity: a conversation with Krondon and Shafiq Husayn
While visiting Los Angeles in March this year, Eric Coleman (co-founder of Mochilla) played me demos of a new project between rapper Krondon and producer Shafiq Husayn. They called themselves White Boiz and the music sounded great. I spent the next six months awaiting for official news so I could share it with people.
The debut album by White Boiz, Neighborhood Wonderful, came out via Stones Throw in early October. Around that time I called the pair for a short profile in The FADER, part of a new bi-weekly column I write for the magazine. Our conversation went on, spanning the philosophical ideas that underpin their new project, though I was only able to include small amounts of it in the final piece.
What follows is my conversation with Krondon and Shafiq in pretty much its interity, from the legacy of Leimert Park to the importance of breaking free from linear thinking. For anyone seeking a refreshing take on what music, and rap, can do for the mind, this is a good place to start.
How’s your neighbourhood right now?
Krondon: We’re both from the same area. Right now, especially in L.A., it’s like a real divide. It’s a level of… awareness and consciousness going on in certain parts but then elsewhere, especially the south east area, it’s real bad man. Cats is killing each other like no tomorrow, based on some stupid shit. Gang shit. It’s completely uncalled for. They’re killing innocent people in broad daylight. But then in Leimert Park we’re seeing a resurgence of consciousness and culture and appreciation for the arts. So it’s kinda like right down the middle.
Shafiq Husayn: I’m actually sitting in Leimert Park as we speak. I teach at a school over here. We around here pretty much five, six days out the week. Everything Krondon just said I reiterate. This is where you get to see the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful in the neighbourhood.
How important has south central been to your art and who you are?
K: South Central is the nucleus for me. I did all the good, bad and ugly things there. I learned everything there. I come from real humble beginnings … it was really unique for me in the hood. When I decided to make music full time, I wanted to be kinda like what Ice Cube was for me growing up. And that’s a reporter. He was a reporter for the hood. And a reporter to the hood of what was going on in the hood. And to the people outside of the hood. An antenna of what really was going on.
S: That’s what Krondon is for me. I always tell him, he has the spirit of a young Ice Cube, specially on this new project. The way he’s able to translate current events. Give a synopsis of the social happenings, like social studies.
Leimert Park is a hotbed, the mecca for the city of Los Angeles, it is the centre, the heartbeat, the soul of the city when it comes to our people, for our people.
What would you say is south central’s artistic legacy today?
K: Build on the cultural or artistic dimensions of a Leimert Park, I wanna hear your thoughts on that.
S: The cover of my solo album was shot in the back of a store in Leimert Park. It’s an African art shop, import and export. This brother goes to many different nations and does business hand to hand with these individuals. But as a guy, the owner is also an avid jazz and record collector. He’s an avid collector of paintings. Right now I’m looking at a martial arts school, across from that a dance school and across the street another jazz spot that Terrace Martin and Robert Glasper just played at this week. So… this area, like the brother is saying, is a hotbed, the mecca for the city of Los Angeles, it is the centre, the heartbeat, the soul of the city when it comes to our people, for our people. And there’s a thing: not just for consciousness but also night time, the freaks come out.
K: (laughs)
S: The freaks come out!
Good or bad freaks?
K: Both
S: That’s the idea. That’s the duality in things. And that’s pretty much what Kron and I are trying to get people to really open their minds to with the album. This concept of white but also of what a wonderful neighbourhood is like. You got a society within yourself, is that wonderful or is it dark?
We’re all capable of the good and bad?
K: indeed.
Are you saying what’s important is to acknowledge that duality so you can perhaps find a balance?
Both: indeed.
Do the ills of society come from a lack of balance and acknowledging this duality? We foster excess?
S: Right, even that is duality. You’ve got a group of people who are conscious of certain things and a group of people who aren’t. It kinda dictates the outcome of the things they’re into but then even in those two parties there are dualities. There is the ones who know but still don’t act on what they know. And then the ones who don’t know still have to go through choices and try to find the right way to go.
K: Those that don’t know still have to make the right decisions without the ammunition to even do that.
You have to able to sit there, get out of your skin and have a real conversation about some stuff.
Were these the kind of conversations that seeded the White Boiz album?
K: This is how we create everything that we do: the album, the songs, the concept, the videos. It all comes from a real… mutual respect and admiration but also out of building: intellectual, comedic, social building.
S: Putting both perspectives in it and not being linear. That’s the problem. Buddah says, “general opinion is no proof of truth, for the generality of men are ignorant.”
K: Straight up.
What do you think it is about this kind of intellectual discourse that brings out the best in us?
S: Linear thinking… take the example… if you say pass me the glass of water, we’ll all acknowledge the glass but the duality is that some people will think of it as half empty, some as half full. The thing is… let us deal with it as a glass of water and acknowledge both perspectives at the same time. That’s a fair way to go into any type of conversation because that way you haven’t discredited or bought yourself off the other party. Even in what you may not like about the other party there may be something you like. You have to able to sit there, get out of your skin and have a real conversation about some stuff. That’s really the beautiful thing about what Kron is saying. We sat down and did that before we made music, we sat down among ourselves first. We had to basically come into each other’s neighbourhood, you know?
And also the recording process. Kron wasn’t necessarily around while I was in my neighbourhood making music. Building tracks. But he came to my neighbourhood, sat there and chose what to listen to. And then the recording process of making the songs, he invited me to his neighbourhood. (laughs) and he literally had the neighbourhood in his studio making this album called Neighbourhood Wonderful.
Krondon where did the inspiration for your lyrics come from?
K: Some of it was this coming into each other’s neighbourhood. Really the inspiration for the lyrical content was our conversations, which you’re witnessing right now. Imagine this every single day for two years. Seriously. A year and half non stop everyday, whether personal or on the phone, long drawn out conversations on life, economics, race, social injustice, god… all these things, everyday. From these the lyrics, the titles, the approach in concept was made just like that.
There’s an energy that comes from this mode of thinking right?
S: Yeah. Now to go back to people thinking linear, it’s because of the social compacts, the company they keep. Depending on your perspective that’s how you interpret and receive those things. Is it right or wrong though? That’s the question.
That’s a matter of personal perspective.
S: Indeed, that part right there. So really there is no right or wrong in the context of a perspective, it’s where you stand at. Now take the whole white conversation, most people’s perspective on white is as a generalised thing. They think we talking about white people. Or could it be the other way around? The duality again. Could it be that people who identify themselves as white people have just generalised that.
So the lesson tells us that man must be what he knows. And that’s all you see out there, people doing what they know, that’s it.
It’s a huge thing to try and unpack. In France, we were taught about philosophy at the end of high school, and I’ve always felt that was a boon even if at the time I didn’t really understand it.
K: You guys are taught nationality early on, who you are, that’s not taken from you. No matter who you are, where you come from, you’re able to maintain that particular lineage of who you are from birth.
S: Now here’s the question? Do groups of people over there consider themselves white people?
Yes. We’re good at pretending we’re over racism but only because we had more time to claim we got over it. My generation was taught about this idea of debating, and I think it’s healthy, but I see that here, in America, it’s sometimes thought of as aggressive. It’s about unpeeling layers. I find it interesting you have this approach.
S: Right, a good philosophical debate. I was with one of my brother in law in Nashville couple weeks ago and he started probing me and trying to engage me in debate by arguing truths. And… he basically was arguing that truth was subjective. And everybody has truths. To me what that sounds like is facts. Everybody has facts. But truth changes not. It’s the causeless cause of the truthless truth. It’s the cause of everything but no cause of it, so to say. Truth is not subjective, it’s not subject to change. Facts are subject to change. So what I’m saying, is people will argue a perspective. Here in America that’s the mentality about how we look at things, from a very linear, half empty perspective, and we won’t consider the half full option. But because we are so stern and trained to argue only one perspective, you cut yourself off from knowing the other perspectives and that’s all you know. So the lesson tells us that man must be what he knows. And that’s all you see out there, people doing what they know, that’s it. Simply. But what is it that they really know though? That’s the question now, at that point.
What they seek…
S: Let’s keep it in the context. For the ones who are into saying “no you’re wrong, this is right,” that’s a question for them. What is that you know to say that?
It comes back to ego and a desire to impose yourself on somebody else.
S: Exactly.
K: It definitely comes down to the ego. We learn in our lessons that the ego means to ease god out. Or eliminate, exit, any of the e’s that mean to…
S: Eradicate! (laughs) White Boiz we’re saying it’s a state of mind. Being that white is purity. But people are confused about that. In our society, or neighbourhood, white means purity, purity means god and god means the ruler of the land. The one with the pure mind and heart is the one that is legal and lawful that should be able to govern the land because they’ll deal with things from a pure perspective not from a linear or tainted or biased opinion and perspective, pure at heart. Blessed who are the pure of heart, who are loved and do not demand love in return! So anyone that calls themselves white you gotta ask yourself: are you pure? Cos white means purity in pretty much every circle you can go into. Fundamentally.
What would you attribute to the way you’re approaching, discussing these things? Religion, schools of thoughts, a certain moment in life?
K: It was a culmination of understanding and if you know anything about Shafiq he’s a master teacher, not just about music but also in life and lessons of culture from all aspects. Christianity, Islam, Moor science, Buddah, whatever it may be. You can only imagine what our conversations have been like. I’ve studied Islam and Christianity the majority of my life. I’ve read from everything, I’m a reader and it allows my conversations to be able to stretch over different and vast points. Take this current conversation and all the trimmings off that, and you look at a uncut version with a purpose to civilise. That’s our purpose coming together. Whether it be music and the changing of the sound, or the change in conversation, in understanding, that’s our point in stepping out together, to jolt and change the perspective overall.
S: To add on. There’s a question in our lessons, in the Moor Science Temple of America, question 93 where you define the word white. And the answer is “white means purity, purity means god and god means the ruler of the land.” And that’s a question that’s asked and answered in our society pretty much everyday by just being… this is question that our children are supposed to be coming up with the answer for. And that right there gives them a shot at not being linear about understanding, see what I’m saying? I didn’t have access to that question, my perspective of white and black would still be linear, black and white.
Does coming together on this project allow you to try and unpack the racism that is inherent in American society?
S: Yes, to a degree. It’s not something that’s just for one thing, this conversation is not just for one thing. It’s not linear. That’s the whole thing about the concept of white. The concept of white is a primer, it’s a blank canvas. So it’s not just generalised. You can take this conversation and apply it to everything. Like saying that it wouldn’t only take a white mind or a pure heart to enter into any conversation. Take that mentality into anything you do, be pure hearted. In hip-hop what’s missing is the purity. Then on another level, purity means to burn away stuff as well. If you get cut you got to put something that burns on it to make sure no infection sets in. That’s a form of purity too as well. I would say all that… just don’t be linear, that’s what we’re saying.
You’re trying to foster more healthy conversations, non linear conversations about race, neighbourhood etc…
S: It allows you to have a honest conversation.
That’s missing in music too. The effort to have honest conversations.
S: Yeah. I have a lot of friends who make music, and they always ask me why I don’t work with such and such. Well, all my friends may not have the purity, so to say, to want to make music. Their intention may not be pure. This is the same thing as picking friends at school or on the block. If you’re not into cocaine then you won’t hang out with the drug dealers. At the same time you don’t want to be encroached on by someone having a drug dealer conversation with you as well and generalising you as a drug dealer. You gonna have drug dealer tendencies or conversations. It would take a pure mind to be able to go into these conversations, to be able to address these particular type of things.
You touched on collaborations and I wanted to ask how you brought the people on the album together? Was it organic, existing relationships?
K: Yeah, it was totally organic and kind of… if you listen to the album, we really wanted to make a… cinematic audio experience and utilising… I like the word personnel because it’s a play on the word personal. The people on the album, Chace Infinite, Blu, Thundercat, between our lineages and connections they’re people we’ve worked with in the past and have personal relationships with, like the brother was saying earlier on we know their pure intention on the music. We know where they’re coming from perspective wise and we also know what they’re going to bring to the table.
S: We had a wish list too. Kron had a wish list of artist that… he’s a painter, he’ll put the piece down and come back and be like “ok that looks good but we need turquoise, akh who’s our turquoise? Who’s the pink?” You know… that’s why Blu started popping up.
K: And the white canvas.
It seems quite healthy in L.A. right now? In your circles especially.
S: That’s another part of the neighbourhood wonderful. The music community or neighbourhood is very wonderful. For certain that’s the other aspect. If you look at the features and the personnel, we’re doing something here…
You’re building this like a good conversation?
S: Yeah. You have to put things out there, our words create, save and destroy.
Sometimes it pays to take your time.
S: Another reason why I was happy to work with Kron is because he’s totally in tune with that. He knows that about life and himself. So… it was refreshing when we got to know each other that he knew that about himself because that’s the same way I feel about myself in the world too, outside of me. The neighbourhood outside of me. That allowed us to make a social compact amongst ourselves.
When you talk about the responsibility of an artist… some of us get paid and some of us don’t get paid as much as others, but you got to look at your craft and what you do as a service to others. We do all the stuff for other people to listen to our music. So we’re serving the people. Public servant.
What are some concrete things that people can do to get out of this mode of binary thinking?
K: I think the key is to never settle. Start with that. Sounds pretty vague but by investigating the questions that arise, don’t settle for what’s being told to you, what you’re seeing, what’s being shoved down your throat all day. Don’t take that as what is, look for what really is. And most importantly, understand that before any label is put on us, race or otherwise, we are the human race. What we’re doing, be it police, musicians, etc… is not of concern to a god, he’s concerned with who you are being, that’s why we are human beings.
S: RIGHT.
K: So if we focus on who we are being and not what we’re doing, when we do focus on what we’re doing as long as we’re doing right then we’re are alright.
S: Demonstrate. Start with yourself. Find the lines that divide within yourself. First up you gotta know you have a higher and a lower self, first thing. Find out, study it, explore that. Find out how far… in order for you to be resurrected you gotta be dead first. So find the the dead part in you and acknowledge that. Be true, be honest with yourself. There’s things I’m dead to that I don’t know about. I’m unconscious about and then build up your world and desire to want to explore. Gain some strength and courage to explore things that you don’t know about. It could be as simple as picking up a book you never you’d read. You know? Studying other languages. Pick up an instrument you never thought of learning. There’s so much on the internet, there’s no excuse no more.
