🇺🇦#BarAtWar

Masi Nayem, Miller law firm

During the war, the funny thing that happened is that you don’t want sex.

Text by Dima Gadomsky, Olga Panchenko and Conal Campbell. Photographs by Maria Matiashova. War by russia.

So, it’s time to tell what you do here, at least in general terms.

In general. The unit I joined from the beginning was “Honor”. Our tasks are very broad. For example, to protect a “Grad” multiple rocket launcher or something else. The top story was on the second or third day, the guys from the battalion where I served in 2015–16 came, and a company officer arrived, who was still my company officer at the time. And we came to guard something, and where we came, the guys spent the night a little out of place. They are sitting on the ground floor; they have made couches for themselves. The company officer looks at all this, says what the fuck, and goes to the older man, who is the groundskeeper there, and asks — do you have any underground storage here. The man says there is, of course, especially for civilians. And the company man, whom these guys see only for the first time in their lives, gathers all these guys, about 50, and says — go fucking down there.

Everyone obeyed, went downstairs, and in an hour, the shelling is nearby, and all the windows are broke inside, that is, the glass would hurt everyone if someone stayed there.

And then the sergeant of these guys calls the brigadier, asks how things are after arrival, he says that here, we have this guy, the brigadier asks to hand over the phone and says: please do this and that. And this company, personnel officer, in two hours, makes patrols with passwords, everything else according to the charter, organize the doctor with medicines and a room for stabilization of three hundred. He is not seconded by documents, there is nothing like that, but he is a staff member and knows what to do.

How did you meet the morning of the war?

In the morning, when Barmik (his dog) and I (incomprehensibly) slept in bed thinking — fuck, some shit again, fuck. I wanted to develop my company, and we would be moving forward, you know.

I had a clear plan. We held a strategic session three months ago. We collected all the data, and we were ready to work our ass off. And I was terribly tired of this shit starting again. I know exactly what will happen during the war — chaos, a lot of emotions, the internal switch is switched to something that is not clear, and this is normal during the war. And you can’t plan anything.

“Kalash is bullshit, nobody needs bullshit. This is if people appear here three hundred meters away, that is a fucking story”.

As for waking up — I woke up from the explosion, it was clear from the sound that it was not a missile, a missile sounds different, first a blast, and then as if it were raining — the fragments went around, and it’s the end for everything. And that was another explosion, and you exhale, and you think that now it is going to start, and it was quite clear that now crowds of people will start on the way out of Kyiv. In general, we approved a protocol for such events a week before, according to this protocol, all partners must be in the office for three hours to pick up important documents and valuables, and within five hours to inform all employees that they need to do. About six in the morning, I went to the office, we immediately warned everyone not to go to work, and after the first explosion, no one thought about work, we gave them time to take their families out. And after the meeting at the office, all the partners also went to take their families out.

And is your company working now, or not?

Well, about 60 percent we work online. We can provide legal advice in other cities where our lawyers are now, and they do. Well, we recently provided legal support at the military enlistment offices of the reservists because there was the reservation of employees [during the war a company may reserve its employees so that they are not called to the armed forces], but this order did not reach the military enlistment offices, they are calling, and of course, you have to come and talk.

So, Masi, explain what you are doing exactly to our readers a little more. You kill russian invaders, you help kill russian invaders, you organize those who help kill russian invaders.

Ok, here I have two fields of work. First — I’m here with “Honor” [military unit]. When it all started, it was clear that all the people were trying to do something, help, and chaos. And the second area — I asked what I could help, I was told that there is a problem with food supply across the country. Purely organizational issues, large retail chains need to work properly. Then, the organizational issue of building communication between the military-civil administrations and the Armed Forces. For example, different areas of the network of checkpoints work differently, we have studied all this, and provided information to retailers and others. Networks did not lose supply chains, and people received products in familiar shops. In Silpo [supermarkets network], the monthly turnover is more than a billion dollars, in the President’s Office they were offered a loan of 50 million and interest to be repaid, but they refused, saying that this would not solve their problem.

Who sets you tasks or gives orders?

We have meetings every day (I will not say what time not to give us away), and at these meetings, all those who have any questions, ask them whether it is a systemic issue. If these are not systemic issues, they are calling directly. That is, in fact, everyone sets you tasks. Now the task has come from nowhere — it seems to be either Silpo or Fozzy [supermarkets networks], from the logistics department. You have no indication that you are working hard or not, but you know that you are doing it to solve problems. You see, this is a small issue, for example, of food warehouses in Kyiv, near Kyiv: if, for example, they were bombed, there is no possibility to provide food in Kyiv. Now the task is (it is impossible to write, but in fact, it is possible to tell) for two months to supply Kyiv with food. Why: because if something happens — I mean, not that they will break the blockade, but break the roads, three-four-five-six roads — all, there will be no food in Kyiv. Then to make these humanitarian “green corridors” again is, well … for what fucking shit?

“Dude, my usefulness is not measured by my suffering”

Remind me, did you have any military experience or military education until 2015?

No, I didn’t. I can’t say that I know how to shoot well with AGS [automatic grenade launcher] or I shoot like a God from a kalash [Kalashnikov gun]. Kalash is bullshit, nobody needs bullshit. This is if people appear here three hundred meters away, that is a fucking story.

And so, I was constantly engaged in reconnaissance in the Industrial Zone, our distance to the terrorists was sometimes 300–400 meters. From the checkpoint to the russian backed “separatists”, there was maximum of 800 meters. Did I get combat experience? I heard these blasts — you walk during the blasts, something happens there … I didn’t have to shoot artillery there … I can’t say it’s military experience.

Are you in your place now? Are you doing what makes you happy now, do you understand that you do what you can? Can you do more and something different?

There are two sides. The first side is what gnaws at you because you don’t hold an NLAW [anti-tank weapon] in your hands and you don’t shoot those fuckers. It gnaws at you because you’re a fucking man — and you don’t. And you understand that in this sense, this need is more in terms of how people will later say (and we know how it went after 2015, “What did you do in the war?” If you didn’t kill someone, you didn’t do shit. And this … bothers you. But there is another side in which I said to myself: “Dude, my usefulness is not measured by my suffering”.

It’s a nice expression.

“My usefulness is not measured by my suffering”– that is, if I do not sleep for three nights, stand at the checkpoint, drink instant coffee, take pictures — this is not a fact that will help more than what I can organize along with this work. I understand that I am now just waiting for something to start in Kyiv.

When it starts, I will not deal with any organizational issues. Of course, I’ll take the Kalash and go shoot. But as long as that doesn’t happen in Kyiv — and it can happen in Kyiv at any time — I do what I think works best for me. I know for sure that certain questions

From some of my results, I see that we are doing a good job. But this is not the case in which you will be told: “Thank you”. Because few people understand that a good frontline can only be when there is a reliable rear. And this is happening here now. If, for example, they shoot now, again — I know for sure that I’m not afraid of gunfire, the killed, well, maybe some minimal fear will still be …

Let’s talk about fear now. When the war started — were you afraid?

No.

And what scares you now?

Only quarrels among our people frighten me the most. The most. The war is not scary because it is, in fact, a matter of creating maximum discomfort for the country to make some agreements. It’s like jurisprudence: you create problems for someone to make some agreements. The same thing happens here. It’s not scary. It’s worse when a fight starts between us, and you realize that you… you don’t know who’s your man and who’s not. This is the worst.

For whom or why are you doing this?

For the sake of my future. Because I’m not leaving Ukraine. I know for sure from my father’s experience, who recently died, what it’s like to be in another country when nobody needs you. They can say that they are waiting for us — no one is waiting for us anywhere. It will be complete shit.

Do you mean that your father moved from Afghanistan to Ukraine and was not needed, and if you go to another country, no one will need you? Are you talking about this now?

Yes. Life is now divided into two parts: one part is public (I mean, before the war), the other is realistic. The public part is very fucking wrong. If it affects you, it is a sign that….

What do you mean by “public”?

This is when you do something to then say what you did in the war. This is the most fucking bad story. If a person decides “what to do” and then says what he did in the war, you have to fucking throw that person away because he will do meaningless things. I have this thing very strongly in myself because I understand that it is important for me to do something so that in general, everything Ukraine wins.

Tell me, what is the most valuable thing you have with you or on you now?

It seems to me that this is my balanced attitude to what is happening. I see people suffering from what is happening. I understand that I probably became a little different — maybe because of meditation, something else, but it’s about … you understand that it happened. The word “drama” — I translated it once- means “to give extra meaning to the situation that happened”. Conventionally speaking, when the house is bombed, and you see that people are suffering, you understand that this is happening. This is the reality. You (can’t?) can suffer from this because that’s what they want from us — to suffer.

The most valuable thing about you is a balanced attitude to everything that is happening?

Yes. It doesn’t mean “fucking indifferent”, it doesn’t mean I don’t give a fuck.

And can you compare the beginning of the war of 2014 in the East, and the russian invasion on February 24. How do some actions take place, how do you feel?

It was very scary then. I was afraid then because I didn’t know what material things I faced in war. Material things are, relatively speaking, explosions, shootings, injuries — as it happens. This is a kind of beast that is drawn to us with pictures, photographs, which then go to all sorts of competitions. But if you really see this war, you hear the gaps that are happening — you understand that’s all. That’s all. Behind this is either death, or there is nothing but explosions, shootings, shrapnel. It’s not scary! And then it was terrifying because you didn’t know it. Now you understand that if they come here, it will be the same shooting, the same explosions, and the same usual things that you have already gone through. What to do with it is another question, it is the most important point.

“Now we give the world only one thing — we are a buffer for keeping this shitty Russia, keeping the war away from the European Union and for the world”.

What will be the end of the war for you?

For me, the end of the war will be when we get together in the company and plan at least the first three months. This is such a countdown for me. This is the tip of the iceberg — it means that by then, it will be clear that they will get away from us, from Ukraine, and it will be apparent that there will be some security guarantees in Ukraine. That’s all.

Do you set any guidelines for this — for example, we will return to the borders of 2013, or we will counterattack, enter the territory of Russia, or we will just roll back to February 24, and Temporarily Occupied Territories will remain in an indefinite state? Do you set any such guidelines, or do you not think about it at all?

It seems to me that this would be an idealistic peace if all our territories were returned. This is the first and the second, there should be specific, explicit, understandable security guarantees. Maybe it’s a fucking phrase that sounds from time to time. It means that we have a clear understanding that it will not be taken away from us, and they will fucking leave us alone. It means that if someone breaks the agreement again, we will not have to break any bureaucratic spears to give us something, to defend ourselves again.

When you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning, you do not have the impression that the only guarantee of security in this country is you? No one will give us security guarantees anymore except ourselves.

It is very easy to hurt us. If we communicate with us in the language of brute strength, it is easy to hurt us. And in this part we can’t be strong — we can be strong if we are allowed … when we have the same strength. And this force is armed. And only then I see how to talk to Russia. Only when we have this power in our hands, the history of defending our own, other values, democratic and so on, is possible. Because if there is no such force — we always ask permission to live in peace. And these are elementary things, such as, for example, iron, from which a kalashnikov is made, or DShK or something else.

This is a technology, including military technology, which is very valuable as an instrument of force. We, by only ourselves, cannot do it. Because to make a new plane that will protect the air is a fucking bunch of technologies that we do not have. We just can’t take it. This is how the world is built. This is the same with Starlink, for example — if we lose connection, we understand that we will be strong with this Starlink. We will not make SpaceX or Tesla ourselves. The world is very much connected because of the raw materials needed to make certain weapons. Therefore, the question of what we will use qualitatively is yes, it depends on us personally.

Look, in your concept, then the question arises, why the world needs Ukraine

Ukraine has to decide; we have to decide what we give to the world. Now we give the world only one thing — we are a buffer for keeping this shitty Russia, keeping the war away from the European Union and for the world.

“You see how a lot of people — by the way, volunteers girls and guys, how they look at each other, you see who has already fucked and with whom”

What has this war changed for you? Nothing is also a possible answer.

I don’t think it’s been so long to realize what it really changed, but … maybe now you’re constantly adjusting yourself and looking for what you can be most useful in. So that you don’t do things that you … just do — for example, you entered law school, you do law because it’s law.

Like it taught you not to move on the track, but to think about what you do consciously, or how is it right? Are you talking about something else?

It is to think about the benefits of your existence: if you talk about why Ukraine is our world, you are also asking yourself why you are Kyiv, Ukraine in general. If you do not ask these questions, then you make chaotic movements.

We are now going to interview Volodya Pavlenko. What advice would you give him? What would you say to anyone we interview after you?

And what did they tell me?

Yuriy Nechayev (Avellum) told you to think about the time after the war. Don’t forget what it will be.

Give me a minute to formulate …

You know what? I would tell it to anyone. I want to write a book about what a state of war means to a person. And how the person switches to a state of peace. Those who were born in a state of war … Even in Sievierodonetsk, when a guy was beaten, he was in a state of war. He doesn’t like sex — he wants to fuck angrily. He can’t drink wine calmly — he wants to get drunk. The same story with people will happen in Ukraine. During the war, your body switches, it needs something else. The person survives and does not live. And I would like to convey that a person should realize how different he can be in a state of peace. I don’t know how to formulate it correctly … In the last four years, our staff turnover has changed: we have almost no staff turnover. And that’s because I practiced these meditations, everyone else. This means that you have stopped carrying the urges that you have in your body. At some point, you start to think about why you are doing this. And when you start thinking about why you’re doing it, keeping that goal in focus, you manage not to do shit. Then it’s better this way: I would tell the person to clearly understand what he wants and what he strives for, what he has to do in life, what he needs to do in life. And keep it in focus. This is the most important thing. Because the most important thing for me right now (sorry to say nonsense) — conditionally, I want a family, I understand that I want to raise a child.

I thought you would start talking about sex now. This would be the article subtitle. And this will be the whole interview.

I’ll tell you a very important thing. During the war, the funny thing that happened is that you don’t want sex. It means that you understand that you have these urges, you are waiting for it, you know that when you are about to die — the body wants to reproduce. But I went in the opposite direction: I don’t want to fuck because you understand what it is.

You see how a lot of people — by the way, volunteers girls and guys, how they look at each other, you see who has already fucked and with whom, and you realize it, it’s a very cool moment — to watch life and find peace in this war.