The story of Ramin Mansoory, a lawyer who was captured by Taliban
Lawyer Ramin Mansoory from Mazār-e Sharīf, Afghanistan, joined the defense of his city as a volunteer fighter. On 15 August, he was captured by the Taliban, and the following day, he was released.
Dead Lawyers Society (DLS) knows Ramin as a dedicated Jessuper and a great friend. [For those who still don’t know] Jessup is a global international law moot court, like a World Cup for law schools. It is run by International Law Students Association.
In the words of ILSA Executive Director Lesley Benn: “[Ramin] competed in the Jessup back in 2017 when I met him in Kabul. He represented one of the best law schools in Afghanistan (Balkh University) and advanced with his team to the International Rounds in Washington. The US State Department was at that time a strong ally of the Jessup in Afghanistan and supported the teams’ trips to DC and their international legal studies. Ramin is a lawyer now, and has stayed involved with Jessup as a coach and judge for the last 4 years.”
When we saw Lesley’s post about Ramin, we approached him for an interview.
DLS: Ramin, we know you as a lawyer. Please tell us how did you get into the defence of the city? How were you captured?
Ramin: We were informed that Mazār-i-Sharīf fell under the control of the Taliban when they were 5 minutes away from our office. I was among the last two groups the governor of the province, I and and our team members and the second group was H.E. Atta Mohammad Noor, leader of Jamiate Islamic party to leave the city.
We had to leave towards Hairatan (a small commercial town bordered with Termez, Uzbekistan), where before us, all other officials from Balkh province had arrived.
At first, they allowed only the Governor, Marshal Dostum (the leader of the Junbish Party), Atta Mohammad Noor (the leader of Jamaate-Islami Party), and his son to cross the border. Then after one hour, the Director for the National Directorate Security (NDS), the Chief of Police Commander, the Commander of 209 corps (which is the military Commander for all north of Afghanistan), the Head of the provincial council and the Deputy Head of NDS were also allowed.
The rest of us were refused. This included the Commander of Commando Forces for the North of Afghanistan, members of parliaments of the Balkh province, members of the Provincial council, other commanders from different units, guard and all the security forces (in total around four of five thousand people).
The Minister of Interior Affairs and the Minister of defense and national security of Uzbekistan have arrived at Termez and negotiated with Atta Mohammad Noor, Marshal Dostum and Balkh governor to allow the passage.
Later around 03:00 AM Afghanistan time, a representative of Uzbekistan announced that they would allow us to cross the border at 07:00 AM. Early in the morning, everyone was ready and hoping for the door to be opened, but no one opened, and at 08:00 AM, the Taliban arrived in Hairatan. There were clashes between them and our forces for 10–20 minutes, and then our forces started surrendering, giving up the ammunition, guns, vehicles and materiel.
Taliban arrived at the bridge by 08:30, where we were located, and asked everyone to surrender. We were insisting not to and still hoping for the border to be opened. In less than 5 minutes, they turned their guns at us and forced us to leave the bridge and surrender. I dropped my gun, bulletproof jacket and all other ammunition to the river because I never wanted to be captured like this, but preferably to be killed.
Unfortunately, when things got tough, the Taliban increased their violence by attacking the districts and taking them under their control. I chose to take a gun not only to defend myself but also to fight against them since the Governor and I were regularly visiting the first line of battles in districts and the city. Everyone knows how to use guns in my country due to the situation we have grown up in, and this is not a plus point; vice-versa, it is unfortunate. During the day, we were visiting the fields. During the nights, we were in the control room instructing forces on different areas and helping the air forces conduct airstrikes wherever necessary.
DLS: Does the rule of law exist in Afghanistan today? What will be changed with the return of the Taliban?
Ramin: Practicing law has always been a challenging issue in Afghanistan. The Taliban has their own interpretation of Islamic beliefs and the Quran, and the government and the people have their version. This difference has been the main issue on which they have been fighting all these years.
For instance, for the government, it’s ok that girls and boys study jointly in the same class of the university while the Taliban opposes this. For the government, it is ok for women to travel anywhere alone or with their brother, husband, or father, but for the Taliban, it is not. For the government, it is ok for women to work, but for the Taliban not. There are tens of other examples like this.
However, the Taliban now are saying that they respect human rights and that they are ok with the situation but under Islamic circumstances, which is defined by them (which is not the real interpretation of Quran and Islam). It is now just a matter of time before the Taliban shows another face they had once before.
In the last 20 years, thousands of professional lawyers were trained, receiving degrees in different countries. These lawyers were practicing. I believe Taliban will change everything but not once at all but slowly as they have experience from history.
DLS: What other areas of life will be affected by the return?
Ramin: All areas of life are affected by the return of the Taliban. Everyone is worried about their lives, mostly people who used to work in governmental positions. Including myself, all of my friends who have backgrounds of working in government and having international contacts, are worried about their life and seeking a way to leave the country into a secure place. For instance, after being captured and released, I took my family, and we have left the country into another country, leaving everything we built during the last two decades just to secure our lives.
DLS: There are 7 law firms as per international ratings Legal500 and Chambers. The top two firms have only 12 lawyers (at least 12 are mentioned on their websites). We understand that the legal market is tiny. Still, it exists. What are the primary practices and industries of the existing law firms? What is the average profit per partner or profit per lawyer?
Ramin: There are several law firms in Afghanistan, and some of them are really into their work. They have contracts both from inside Afghanistan and outside Afghanistan. The profit here is different in law firms, from my knowledge which my friends have told me that, they get a fixed price salary for the job they do and it doesn’t matter how much profit the law firm gets from cases they work. Usually, the salary in the top two law firms based in Kabul starts from 600$ and goes up to 5000$. The salary is fixed — the lawyers receive it regardless of whether they get a case to solve during the month or not. They work and practice all issues of the law as different departments exist inside the law firm.
DLS: We heard that although law firms exist in Afghanistan, lawyers are located outside the country and work remotely from Istanbul, Dubai, etc. Is this correct, are there no lawyers located in Afghanistan?
Ramin: This is not true in some contexts. In addition to hiring top local lawyers working in Afghanistan, the law firms based in Afghanistan hire some regionally and internationally known lawyers from abroad to increase their productivity and work quality.
Sometimes those foreign lawyers agree to come to Afghanistan and work, but sometimes, they prefer to work remotely due to security issues. The percentage of lawyers working abroad is around 5–10%. On the other hand, some of the cases are handled by law firms based in other countries. For example, a law firm based in Afghanistan gets the contract at a higher price and gives it to another law firm in another country with a lower price and making a good profit for themselves.
DLS: What is the near future for the law firms: will they change their core practices (to which?), restructure, or quit the market?
Ramin: Considering the increased violence and insecurity before the fall of Afghanistan, the market was already down since most of the contracts of these law firms were by the government with the financial support of international donors. I asked my friends, and they told me that their law firms are closed for now, and everyone is waiting for the new government to form.
Recorded by Nick Yurlov and Dima Gadomsky for the Dead Lawyers Society. Proofreading by Olga Panchenko.
