Ep. 12: “How to UX Your UX Resume” (Transcript)
User Experience
Episode 12 // Designed Today
November 2018
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Danno Ard talks about how your resume is the tool that will get you the interview. Danno reminds us that resumes need to be catered to the job and stripped down to the vital information. He encourages you to ask how your resume and experience will make a clear case for your ability to deliver solutions for the company you’ve got your eye on. Danno warns of taking rejection and critique as a personal attack. He also encourages you to candidly ask yourself whether what’s on your resume really contributes to what a company is looking for.
Highlight:
Resumes are a huge piece of getting your first phone call or getting your first email … For many of you, you’ll submit dozens of resumes before you get a call back. It’s not too uncommon, but maybe there’s a few things you can do to clean that up, or make your resume stand out a little bit more in that stack of resumes. That’s what we’re discussing today.
Intro:
[Music]
[00:10] Dillon Winspear: Yes, alrighty. Here we go. Designed Today brings you my newest guest, DANNO Ard. Yes, that is “Dan” with an “o”. It should make it very easy to remember.
Danno and I go back, all the way to school, where we took many of the same design courses. Since then, he’s had a successful career working as a Product Designer at many places, like, Qualtrics, Empathic, and, currently, at WillowTree out on the east coast. He flew across the country to join me on the show today. No, just kidding. That’s a lie. He, like many designers, are out here this week for the Front conference workshops, organized, in part, by my friend, Ben Peck, who was on the show not too long ago.
Danno was nice enough to give me some time while he was out here, so we can sit down and talk about something that I’ve got people asking about quite frequently.
[00:55] Again, you hungry listeners are doing your best to make sure that you’re represented in a way that’s hireable, and I love it. Resumes are a huge piece of getting your first phone call or getting your first email, foot in the door. For many of you, you’ll submit dozens of resumes before you get a call back. It’s not too uncommon, but maybe there’s a few things you can do to clean that up, or make your resume stand out a little bit more in that stack of resumes. That’s what we’re discussing today.
Real simple actionable tricks to help improve your resume.
And I’ve gotta be honest, this episode is one of the more actionable episodes. You should be able to listen to this, take some of those tricks away and apply it to your resume immediately to improve the likelihood of getting that call back.
Give it a listen and let me know if you find it helpful.
Without further ado, we’ll jump right into [01:45] the show, featuring Danno Ard. This is Designed Today.
Interview transcript:
Dillon: So, Danno …
Danno: Hello.
Dillon: … welcome to Designed Today
Danno: Hello, everyone.
Dillon: This is it.
Danno: Yeah, this is great.
Dillon: I’m actually stoked about this. I told my wife, I said, “Yeah, I’ve got a guy coming into town. He’s flying in for the interview.”
Danno: There you go. No, no, let’s keep it at that. I flew in for Designed Today.
So everyone out there, one day you might be here too.
Dillon: And it wasn’t an all-expenses-paid trip … like, you sacrificed it for yourself. That was an impressive.
Danno: Exactly.
Dillon: It had nothing to do with the Front conference this week.
Danno: No, not at all. It’s all about this.
Dillon: So, I want to give a quick introduction as to why you’re here and the topic that we’re gonna be getting into. But before we get into that, I want to give you the chance to introduce yourself.
Danno: Sure. I’m Danno Ard, also known as Daniel Ard.
Dillon: You’re not really known by that.
Danno: I’m known as Danno, in the industry, as you might call it, and by my family. I grew up in Rexburg, Idaho. Just growing up, I always wanted to be a pilot and then I moved from that to wanting to do animation and then from that, to wanting to be a movie producer, a film producer, [03:00] and then, slowly, got into UX design at the end of college at BYU-Idaho.
Dillon: Yup.
Danno: I still like film making, but I realized that UX provided a more family- friendly, you know, work balance …
Dillon: Sure.
Danno: I film still, but I realized I could also do storytelling within the UX space.
Dillon: So, when you were- you’ve had a couple of different jobs over your career- when you were at Qualtrics, was that your first UX, like official UX […]?
Danno: So, I came out of BYU-Idaho and, you know, had the interviews with Domo and stuff, and I actually was hired at Qualtrics first as a Front-end Developer/Designer. We were doing their theme design for when you take a survey, what that looks like. [03:53] I was working on that. And so I got into UX from wanting to improve that experience, but Qualtrics, at the time didn’t have a UX team, like a dedicated UX team, until six months after I joined. And I just realized that where I was, I wasn’t potentially going to make it on that team anytime soon because it was more entry-level what I was doing. So, I got offered a position at a start-up called Empathic, which was, or is, I’m not sure where they’re at currently …
Dillon: Was or is …?
Danno: … there’s something, the website’s still live so I’m guessing the product is. They’re in Lehi by Thanksgiving point, where MX is and stuff. And as a Product Designer, and then kind of moved up to a Senior Product Designer as titles go, but really just working on the strategy and with the marketing team trying to promote that, which is Podium for the healthcare industry, specifically. [04:47] Review management for the health care industry; after I left there, I went to WillowTree.
Dillon: And that’s in … ?
Danno: Sorry- Durham, North Carolina, is where WillowTree is, and they started in 2008 as a company. They were in the first SDK that was launched for iOS. They started building apps, over 500 apps later, clients like Pepsi, Wyndham, and that … we’re growing big, so two locations: Charlottesville, Virginia is the main office and then Durham, North Carolina. So, I’ve been following them since Qualtrics. They were on Glassdoor’s Top 50 Companies- Qualtrics is actually 24, and WillowTree was number four, or something like that.
Dillon: Sure.
Danno: I just followed them and I applied, and low and behold, I got a job and had been there ever since. And, currently, am working with Pepsi. On an app that their techs use to basically take care of any machine.
Dillon: You like the east coast?
Danno: Yeah. Yeah, the east coast is very different from here, obviously. There’s a lot more greenery there. Here, you come here, and you look out, obviously, there’s the mountains, but it’s just, you know … openness. And I do like that. I missed that at times. It’s just [05:57] being able to drive out that way, do something fun, and just have, kind of, more solitude, at times.
Dillon: Yeah. One of my best friends is in North Carolina.
Danno: Oh, really?
Dillon: Yeah. That’s what he always says is that he comes back to Utah or Idaho and he’s like I missed the big sky, but, yeah, the open, it’s green here in North Carolina.
Danno: Humidity- don’t have to, like, put lotion on and stuff.
Dillon: Were you affected by the hurricanes and stuff?
Danno: So, it was really weird. We- the hurricane kind of horseshoed around us in Durham, so, unfortunately that meant other people got hit by it. But fortunately for us, we weren’t hit by it. We had rain and some flooding, but not anything bad.
Dillon: Not crazy.
Danno: Yeah, I’m good.
Dillon: So, um, we might get a little bit more into some of your background, but, uh, jumping into the topic, the reason I reached out to you. [06:45] Yeah, it was, it was really funny. I told you this, and the message- but, I can’t even, I went back to see, like, if I could find it in your LinkedIn activity and I, it was buried so I couldn’t find it. But, you know, there’s a LinkedIn post. I read that …
Danno: Yeah.
Dillon: And I don’t even know who the guy was. I think I saw it because I was connected to people who have commented on it.
Danno: Yeah.
Dillon: But it was a guy looking for some feedback on his resume. And after reading his caption, looking at the resume, I opened up the comment window and I was about to comment, with the comment that popped up first was yours and I read yours and I was like, he said exactly what I was going to say. And the comment that you made, again, we’ll get into some of those details little bit further, but the comment that you made, I was like, “Exactly!”[07:28] Yeah. That’s it, exactly on par with, I guess, what my thought process, right or wrong. I go, “And that’s exactly kind of what I thought.” It was cool to, actually, for me to validate that; okay, I’m not crazy.
Danno: For sure.
Dillon: But I am often hit up by a lot of these new designers, um, budding designers who right now resumes are important. They’re trying to get their foot in the door, they’re trying to, uh, land their first gig there, landing internships, and the resumes are a crucial step in that.
Now, you’ve jumped and you’ve done a handful of things. You’ve always got some experience in building your resume out.
You sent me over a handful of iterations of your resume.
Danno: Oh, boy.
Looking at the big picture
Dillon: So, let’s talk big picture at first.
Danno: Sure.
Dillon: The importance of a resume; I mean, how have you found value in iterating on your resume?
[08:15] Danno: So, I guess I would pose a question to people listening, and you, is like, what’s the purpose of your resume?
Dillon: It’s like you’re thinking like a UX designer.
Danno: Yeah. It’s just, like, the overall, the objective of the app, or what is somebody trying to accomplish, and what are you trying to accomplish with that?
Dillon: Right.
If you, any of you, in your brains right now, thought to yourself: it’s to get the job. You’re absolutely wrong, in my opinion. Your ultimate job with the resume is to get a phone or an in-person interview.
Dillon: Yep.
Danno: That is your goal. If you’re not striving for that, then you need to rethink that a little bit.
So just a few things here that I’ve written down. Really, it’s, so, [08:56] the analogy that I have created with this a little bit, was that it’s kind of like, a resume is, obviously, to get that interview and so it needs to be catered to the job. And then the information that’s on there needs to be as, in my opinion, as stripped down as possible, to the core elements.
Crafting a tempting resume
If you think about it like fishing, you could include, like, so many different tackles and lures in your tackle box, but it’s like, “Which one is going to hook them?” And really that’s the focus, trying to figure out which things, is going to hook that company to calling me and bringing me in.
Dillon: And so what is it?
Danno: That’s the great question.
Dillon: Does it vary?
Danno: Yeah, I think, honestly, for me, I think it varies from industry to industry. You know, there’s creative and engineering and just different, and even outside of, you know, products … doctors, and whatever there might be that you have to fill out a resume for [09:52].
You need to be focused on your industry, and take into consideration what items within your experience that you’ve done, that will contribute to that company.
Dillon: Yeah.
Danno: What impact have you made, experience that you’ve had that can show them that I know what I’m doing?
Dillon: Yep.
Danno: That’s really what it is.
Identify who’s reading your resume
Dillon: You know, it’s funny, I’ve had the opportunity to do a bit of interviewing and hiring and one of the things that even I think I’ve kind of grown or evolved my thought process around resumes quite a bit, but more recently, I kind of came to a different conclusion that I may have even stated in a podcast earlier. One of the things that I find important in resumes, you’ve also got to identify, you mentioned, you know, “Who’s this for?”, “Who’s seeing this?”.
I also wonder if there’s a difference in, are you sending this to a recruiter?[10:45] Are you sending this to the design manager, the UX manager? Because I’m wondering there if you should tailor your message differently depending on who’s actually viewing this.
Danno: Yeah, I think there’s … each one is going to look for specific items. You know, obviously as a UX manager, or, you know, a Senior Product Designer who’s viewing that resume versus the technical recruiter, like a technical recruiter’s going to look for, let’s say, maybe more cultural-based things, for you know, lack of anything else. And the Product Designer is looking, okay, have they worked in, you know, on mobile design, have they done this or that? And so each one will look at it with different eyes.
And I think that’s why it’s really important to do your research of that company that you’re applying to it. It sounds like a lot, obviously, but if you’re serious about a specific company, doing the research and seeing, like, who is the Product Designers at, like, go to their Dribbble account.
Dillon: Right.
[11:43] Danno: Look at their Dribbble account. Look at their LinkedIn. Don’t worry, if you show up as the you who viewed your profile, that’s great because then they’ll probably look at your profile.
Dillon: Right.
Danno: Cool. Exposure. So, then you go through there, read the company website and you just figured out all these different elements of who those people are so you can consider what might be nice for them to see.
Dillon: Yeah.
Danno: And then, also, looking at the job title, the description, and saying, “Okay, have I done that? Yeah, I did that here. Let’s make sure to include something about that.”
How to get your resume noticed
Dillon: Yup. [12:11] So, one of the things that I know a lot of people are worried about is like, how do I make my resume stand out in a stack of resumes? There’s a lot of, I think, rights and wrongs in approaching that. And I’m sure you’ve seen some of those rights and wrongs as you’ve looked at other resumes. What are, off the cuff, some things that you find important to help you stand out versus not important?
Danno: Should we go through the list?
Dillon: You’ve got, you’ve got it already?
Danno: I mean, I just, I really wanted to give some things that you should definitely consider.
Dillon: And I really hope we find something that we disagree on.
Danno: Yeah. So, I mean, let’s focus on the things not [12:50] to add. I think that’s a really important thing. I don’t really think that you should put an objective statement or a kind of cover letter type statement in your resume. The cover letter, that’s where you can include that. But with the resume it’s like focus on three main items to me; and that is experience, skills, education.
Dillon: Yup.
Danno: Those are the ultimate deciding factor.
Education: a degree helps show your commitment
Danno: I, you know, the topic has come up, as of late, with Apple and Google with the, um, in regards to having a degree. And I do feel like a degree is, in a sense, it, it shows a commitment.
Dillon: Yeah.
Danno: Really. You know, you spent four years to do this thing, to get a piece of paper; you learned, I’m sure a lot from that about yourself, about, you know, how to interact with people. But really it shows that commitment level and that’s what a company is, I think they’d be looking for when they’re looking at a degree is, yeah, what it’s in, but the fact of like, what that means.
Dillon: Yeah.[13:55] No, I agree.
I was just saying this on a different podcast, but my son, he’s six, he just started going to kindergarten and after like the first two weeks of school, he was already coming home going, like, “I hate school.” And I’m like, “Dude, this is a way too early for you to think that and the other, “What don’t you like about it?” He was like “the work” and some of the things that I’m thinking in my mind, I’m like, “I get it, dude. Yeah. Not a fan of it, either.” Like, the schooling stuff. Like, it’s hard to, it’s hard to tell him, “You’ve got to do this,” because at the same time I’m going, like, yeah, that does suck.
The most important thing that I think you get out of school is learning to learn.
And I think that’s what your degree actually shows is that you’ve got this level of commitment and hopefully you’ve learned to learn. Uh, there’s other ways to demonstrate that you know, how to learn outside of the degree. But I just think the degrees is another measuring stick, it’s just another component to validating.
Danno: Exactly. [14:45] Yeah. And that whole learning to learn element. Again, it’s obviously hard to that you’re able to do that. But again, it’s the resume, the focus on bringing, getting enough in there to get you in, so that you can show off that you do know how to do that; that your personality, you know, you can actually open up and be you. Because on a piece of paper, most everybody looks like most everybody to a certain point. But when you get in person, that’s when it’s like, “Oh, they fit our culture.” They answered it this way. That means this and that, you know, you see more of who somebody is.
Dillon: Yup.
Danno: And they can explain things better there. And that’s why people talk a lot about these like, pitches, you know, elevator pitches and whatnot about yourself. [15:35] And it’s really interesting to me because he knows it’s like, hey, cram, you know, I’ve seen some resumes as of late that have so much in them, like every single piece of white space on there except maybe the border, you know, the margin, is just taken up and I’m just thinking, man, you’re trying to consolidate a whole life to one piece of paper. And if you remember back in like, there’s this guy named Motormouth who did a FedEx commercial like back in the day, and he’s the fastest talker alive. He’s just got a world record for talking that fast. Go, look that up. It’s funny. It’s on YouTube, for sure.
Dillon: That’s funny.
Danno: But it’s like, what you’re basically doing is forcing a recruiter, or anyone, to try to read lines that fast.
Dillon: Yeah.
Danno: But they’re trying to read this page, document, of they don’t even know where to go in it.
[16:29] Dillon: And it’s just, and so, often, what happens is that resume, then?
Danno: That thing ends up in the trash faster than you look at it because it really just looks like a big, like a big square on the page.
Dillon: And it’s funny because if you’re also hiring, if you’re looking for a UX position and you had a UX recruiter or UX talent looking at, they’re going like, obviously you didn’t understand that user experience here.
Danno: And that’s what’s interesting, is you’ll see, and, you know, for good reason, like people are trying to, obviously, what you’re doing is you’re trying to show the things that you’ve done. But it’s not about showing all the things that you’ve done …
It’s about showing the things that matter.
Dillon: Yup. And enough, right?
Danno: Yeah.
Dillon: Now, I also wanted, I want to get into this because I think, I think there’s, it’s not as black and white as I maybe at once thought it was.[17:18] Um, but you mentioned earlier that on paper a lot of people can look identical. And so I always then took the approach like, okay, then how do I make myself not look identical?
So, I want to interject some sort of personality into this resume.
Danno: Sure.
Personality in a resume will differentiate you
Dillon: But I think that’s another place where people can go overboard, right?
Danno: Yeah. You gotta be real careful with the personality. I mean, if you, if you’ve ever interacted with somebody that’s overly bubbly and you’re not, you don’t really want to be around that person. You want to be kind of, you know, the person who just kinda, just rides the line, really. The, you know, there’s, there’s, you get a little bit in there to make it yours.
Dillon: Yeah.
Danno: But it’s not like, “okay, let’s go somewhere but don’t tell so and so,” you know?
So, I think, there is one huge thing. [18:05]
“Five out of five”
Danno: So, my friend, Lucas Galo, who actually works at, uh, sorry, if I mispronounced his name- Lucas, if you ever watch this …
Dillon: He won’t. I guarantee it.
Danno: You never know. He works at Google.
Dillon: Okay.
Danno: And as a visual designer, and he, I remember, I sent him my resume one day and it was, nobody will see this on, I mean, you can post it if you want.
Dillon: Sure.
Danno: But it was the one with the graph on it.
Dillon: Okay.
Danno: In the bottom left.
Dillon: Yeah.
Danno: And that was it. Like a big thing to- like, for a lot of designers that I saw, was adding these little graphs like “three out of five” and “four out of five” in certain areas, and the thing that was so funny, which afterwards you know you realize, oh, yeah, that’s really stupid to put a graph on, because you’re saying, like, who wants to hire somebody who’s “three out of five” in Sketch? Like, why do you think you’re “three out of five?” That’s horrible. You’re, you’re selling yourself short.
[18:59] Dillon: I don’t see anything good that comes out of that because then at the same time, like, people skills “five out of five.”
“Oh, you think so? ‘Cause you didn’t interview a ‘five out of five.’”
Danno: And the other thing is … sometimes a lot of recruiters, they will run resumes through a processor that like strips a lot of things out of them, or when you apply, it might strip everything out of that resume.
Dillon: Interesting.
Danno: And that graph now becomes nonexistent and you get just the bottom side of it and it just restructures the whole order of what you designed. So yeah, I think the whole graphical side is, like, don’t include like, just don’t do that, don’t include the graphs. There’s many different reasons, but the main one is like, yeah, don’t sit here and say that you’re “three out of five.” People want to hire five out of five people. Really, that’s what it is. So, bring your “five out of five.”
[19:58] Dillon: I will admit to a resume blunder of my own where I think in a previous iteration I was trying to interject personality because in my mind I was thinking, like, if they like me, great, if they read that personality and they don’t like me, well then we would probably wouldn’t have gotten along had they hired me, you know? And so this is kind of a precursor for what’s to come regardless. I don’t mind getting it out there right away.
Danno: Yeah.
Time to rethink that resume photo
Dillon: So, in my resume I included, actually, like a profile picture, like, my face on my resume next to my name and I actually included three, maybe four, sentences as a bio about myself. Kind of just talking about my mantra, what drives me, some personality type things.
Danno: Sure.
Dillon: You know, [20:48] and then you talked, you mentioned a little bit about, like, stuffing everything else on this page. And mine may have been borderline full, but I think if I were to go back and redo my resume right now, I would strip that bio out because I don’t think that bio matters right there. But I’m definitely keeping my picture.
Danno: Yeah.
Dillon: My reasoning is that I read a lot of names, personally. Like I see a lot of names, but it’s so hard for me to connect the dots unless I can put a face with it. And that’s why I’ve kept my face on my resume, is that I want them to be able to see me and my name together to help connect the dots. What’re your thoughts?
Danno: [21:27] I think obviously there’s a lot of, uh, HR managers who would comment against that. I do think that what thinking about it from the perspective of a recruiter is, is that really going to determine whether they bring you in or not? And I don’t necessarily think it is. I think, you know, if, if, if that’s really a concern to them that you have your photo unless it looks, you know, unless like you’re-
Dillon: Well, it’s my face? Like glowing!
Danno: Well, yeah, but there you go.
So like I think that’s a consideration as to like if you put that on there, um, just be mindful of the photo that you are putting on there and just like what you look like, is this professional, or whatever it is.
I would advise keeping the LinkedIn- and if you’re going to put a photo on it, like match it with the LinkedIn photo.
Dillon: Sure.
Danno: Because then it’s like a correlation.
Dillon: Yup. Agreed.
Danno: But, yeah, I honestly feel like that’s a, up-to-you type thing, really. Obviously, it takes up space on your resume, but it doesn’t have to, necessarily, if it’s small enough. So, I think it just depends.
I think it depends on the job. It depends on the company that you might be applying for with to. Like, there’s a company up in Seattle called Wongdoody (DOODYSHOPPER), and they’re, oh, man, they have a neon sign when you first walk in, that’s just a big neon sign flipping you off and I love it, says “eff you.” And so they’re an agency that you might be able to get away with being more creative with your resume.
Dillon: Sure.
Danno: … adding bells and whistles, but if you kind of take like the generic pass at a resume and like, okay, but the content still needs to be there. The important content, how it might be structured or laid out may be a little bit up to you and, you know, your photo or whatever it might be. But that those main core elements of the experience, the skills and education, like- that is the meat.
Dillon: Yeah.
Danno: However you do that. Anything else? Okay. Okay.
[23:29] Dillon: You know, one other piece I’ll put out about the avatar or the profile picture: for me, I feel like I see a lot of faces, whether it be on LinkedIn, or is in a Slack community, or whatever, and I am quicker to draw the connection of like, “Oh, I know this guy,” or, “Oh, I’ve seen him before,” by the face than I am by the name.
Danno: Well, and, you know, psychology with images, and pictures, and photos of people have a much higher response, emotional response- and other photos, you know, that and food. So, food’s a big thing.
Dillon: Put your, what we’re saying in this podcast is put your face on it, and your favorite meal, and then your name is, it’s the most important thing, yeah.
Danno: You’ve got your plate down there and you got your face and you’re pointing at your meal. That’s what you should do in your, in your resume.
Dillon: If it’s not a taco, you’re not getting the job.
Danno: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Those tacos, which we don’t have a lot of on the east coast. Really good Mexican food. It’s disappointing.
Dillon: Do you know what? That taco bus up in Rexburg was some of the best Mexican … we’re getting off topic but I love that taco bus …
Danno: Well, you’re … listen.
Let’s taco🌮 ‘bout experience.
[24:36] Danno: Let’s talk about experience.
Okay. The experience of like a restaurant, right? Like, I think what’s important for students to do, like in the process of going through school and you saying like, oh I only have an internship or I’m only this. Well, why don’t you try to come up with a problem that you see in a business and a restaurant and solve for that experience, and, like, record things- like, do interviews with people; and you know, research and whatever it might be so that you can have more experience about how to solve those problems? I think that’s really important for students who can’t get the job. They can’t do this thing or they’re just in school still and they’re not getting maybe enough from the classes.
Dillon: Yup.
Use what you have to build case-studies showcasing your solutions.
Danno: Find problems, try to create case studies around them and then, you know, you, it’s not necessarily like, oh, I can include this in my resume, per se. [25:23] Like, you might be able to, but it’s more, like, in discussion, “Well, I actually did this thing, where I did this and this.” So again, it’s like get that interview, from that interview, now we got some …
Dillon: If I wasn’t on a podcast where I was going to blow the speakers of those listening, I’d be giving you a standing ovation and a slow clap. I could not agree more. I mean just do some thing.
Danno: Yeah. And it’s honestly what I didn’t do in school, which you know is obviously learning for me, but like one of the things that I, I’m off topic but is going to like a gas station and how the whole display and typing and like there’s an option. You guys want an option, there’s an option. Go try to solve for that. Solve for people getting on an airline.
Dillon: Yup.
Danno: Checking out groceries … I don’t know. Whatever it might be, find something that you, that pokes you the wrong way and be like, why does it poke me the wrong way? How could this be better? Okay, let’s see if that, like, what options there are. And then explore it.
Dillon: And again, specifically if you’re a UX designer trying to get a UX position, make sure you’re focused on that problem. Oh, you’re doing an Instagram redesign just for the sake of you want to do a UI design challenge, then don’t apply for a UX job.
Danno: Yeah. It’s interesting because, like, visual design is obviously a- it adds to the UX of a product. It can add to the UX of something, but the distinction between like a UI being solely a UI- and I will say that my … when I got hired at WillowTree, the project I worked on was a visual design project, actually just to see if like, hey, do you have the visual […]?
Dillon: Right.
Danno: But, yeah, in the mindset of continual learning, or learning to love learning, when you start to explore those options outside of class, that is learning to love learning.
And the kind of the psychology of what works for people, what doesn’t work for people, understanding behavior and why people do what they do. That’s what you’ll find out when you start doing external projects.
Dillon: So back to the resume. Um, if we were to now move beyond the idea that it’s showcase the experience real quick, uh, let’s showcase some of your skills. Is there a right way and wrong way to do that? Skills piece?
Danno: Boy, oh, boy. I would say, well, when I talked to a more VP level (over the HR department for a company in Seattle) he told me about the skills section and basing it in like UX design is I know Sketch, right? [28:07] You know, InVision, Zeplin, like, you know, the common tools of the trade and honestly, go and download them. There’s usually free trials and all that and just learn them, learn how they function, apply that. And those are skills that companies will ask you on a phone interview. Do you know how to use this? Do you know how to use that? Well, those, if they’re written down in a resume are just like, oh, Yup, Yup. They know what tools we use. Awesome. Does it change? That’s tools more than skills-
Dillon: -but that’s kind of what I’m thinking. That’s what I’m, that’s where I’m going. Does it change what level of how much experience you have? Because legitimately if I’m hiring a Senior UX Designer, I don’t need, I assume you know those skills.
Danno: Yeah, the quality of the skill. And by quality, I mean you could spend three years working on something but you never learn anything from her.
[29:02] You could spend three months like really getting into it and learn a ton.
Dillon: Sure.
Danno: So I um, I don’t really know are included or not included skill set wise. Well, like in my resume you’d see it and, and just so everyone knows like my resume can continue to be improved upon as, as everything in life can be continually improved upon. But my skills is like, that I’ve done research that I’ve done like product strategy, like the, I actually have strategized on product so that you know, and you could say like buzzwords which “disrupt” is a buzzword, but when you say a specific skill like Product Strategy, that is a skill that you have discussed or have done in the past. I think the thing that I wonder about is how you convey, well, you really can’t convey that quality through a resume.
[29:57] Dillon: No.
Danno: Until you like discuss it one-on-one and then they can tell like, okay, you learn this from that. That’s, you know, that’s where you see the quality of what they learned from that experience.
Dillon: It’s a qualifier though, right?
Danno: I think, I mean, when you’re looking for a Product Designer and obviously getting into like titles of UX Designer, but am I good Product Designer where there, at WillowTree looking for people who know visual, they know strategy or at least they’ve touched that. It’s mainly like, you know, what you need to do to get this accomplished and you’ve experienced elements of that along the way from getting there. And so including that you’ve done the research that you’ve done, um, uh, like prototyping or even animation or whatever it might be that you have done.
It’s important, be honest!
Honesty, facing rejection, and qualifying job titles
Dillon: Yeah. Do you ever watch Friends?
[30:43] Danno: I haven’t, no. I mean, growing up, my mom watched it a lot.
Dillon: So, Joey is one of these, the actor of the group, right? And there’s a couple of episodes where he’s putting together resumes and they’re reviewing it and it says like, yeah, I know French and he doesn’t know French, he’s like and horseback riding. And he’s like, I’ve never ridden a horse in my life, but he’s, ‘but this is why they bring me in’ and he’s got an audition where he’s got to now speak French and he doesn’t know anything.
And this is a classic, like … don’t put these skills. No, don’t call yourself a Product Strategist if really you don’t have a whole lot of experience with it and maybe something you’re passionate about or something you want to go into it more. But if you’re going to put that on your resume as like, that is my strength, you’re going to be asked then.
[31:25] Danno: Jeff Bezos, he said that the most intelligent people are wrong constantly.
Dillon: Sure.
Danno: Because then they know how to like learn when it’s right.
Dillon: Right.
Danno: And so when it comes to like being honest, it’s, I know that I’m not the best. I’m striving to do these things. And here’s what I have done. If that’s not good enough for you, that’s okay.
Danno: You really have to realize when you get denied from a company, like you submit a resume, you don’t get an interview, it takes three months for you to now I will say to companies that I, I do think that they can improve the communication when you get rejected because it’s kind of like a bad taste in people’s mouth. Like, you took three-? You think I’m going to reapply? This kid, like a few months down the line could be bomb. He could be amazing. But because of the way you kind of handled that process of denying him-
Dillon: Sure.
[32:20] Danno: -he may never reapply.
Dillon: Sure.
Danno: And that’s also to the back way is like, well as a company, if he, if you want those people who are real dedicated to you, they won’t, they’ll realize that they still want to work for you. But um, yeah-
Dillon: There’s a Catch-22 isn’t it? Right.
Danno: Oh, totally. There’s a back and forth on both sides. But just being honest and saying like, as a business, you have certain goals you need to reach. If I’m not able to do that, that’s okay.
Dillon: Yeah.
Danno: That’s your business goal. I’m going to just keep applying it as other places and realize that you just need to add more things. And maybe reapply back in, you know, in the future. But really just being honest in a resume tells a lot because then when you show up at that in person interview, you’ve done all this like maybe, you know, fancy, fancy showing off and then you show up and they’re like, so what about this thing? [33:11] And you’re like- cold sweats. Uh, and you’re trying to, you know, get through talking about, you know, words that you might use as a Product Strategist and all this …
Dillon: You know, you actually just triggered something else on my mind that I want to jump to in a second. But I want to recap then on this skill section. Is it safe, is it agreeable then that in the skills portion of your resume, let’s not worry about things like, I know Photoshop, I know Illustrator, I know InDesign, I know XD, I know Sketch, I know InVision Studio, and instead focus on, I’ve got experience in building mobile products, I’ve got experience in Product Strategy, I’ve got those … labeling those as your skill sets as opposed to the hardware that, you know?
Danno: Yeah. Um, I think, I think you, um, I would say relate your skills to the description of the position, like if you see in there. 34:09 So I would focus on that first. Like, uh, we want people who know this thing, if I have knowledge in that. Okay. Little skill there, product strategy.
Dillon: Sure, sure.
Danno: And if you see in there, uh, you know, we use Sketch this and this. Well, okay. Sketch and he’s in this like, cause you do have knowledge in it and that is obviously catering to that and they’ll, those little words, they’ll recognize me like, okay, Sketch. Okay, that’s cool. We should bring this guy in. He knows this stuff.
Dillon: Yep.
Danno: So I think again, it’s catering it. Um, there’s also the trying to fill space to fill space. So I would say after you’ve gone through the description, really consider what things do YOU think would help that company?
How can I help you?
Danno: And that’s an important part is when you’re doing research about the company and you know, asking maybe the question in a phone interview or just in general is “how can I help you?” [34:56] What can I do to make your business better? If as a, you know, as, joining the team,
Dillon: Those three people who are listening right now I think just got a huge golden nugget right there. Cause I think if you’re talking about this is the job posting that they have, these are the skills that they’re looking for, I’ve addressed those. And then I’ve done my homework enough to recognize it; I think this is how I could also contribute to the team and I’m going to jot down a couple of these skills. I think that’s solid. Very smart move.
Danno: Yeah. Anything outside of that, you know, don’t fill space, just to fill the space.
Dillon: Yeah. Agreed. 100%
Danno: Because you might put something down that who knows, they’re like, “Nah, throw it away.”
Dillon: Yeah.
Danno: Be mindful, you know, be logical with what you’re putting down on there.
Subjective titles aren’t helping your job search- strip it down
[35:41] Dillon: So another one that I want to talk about that you can, you jog this memory in my own head, but, uh, I, I’ve talked about this actually once before, but I went from startup to startup to startup, and when you are at startups and titles are just thrown around kind of willy-nilly, I sometimes can see that hurting people more than anything else.
Danno: Oh, title on a resume? Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Dillon: So I had the big fancy title as Creative Director at these startups and I’m not letting that go to my head. When you’re the Creative Director at a company of eight people, it doesn’t mean a whole lot. Um, but what I saw is that when I left that on my resume, people aren’t looking for a Creative Director.
You know, if I’m, for example, when I applied at Domo, they’re not looking for a Creative Director. They’re looking for a UX Designer. Are you a UX Designer? Well, I’ve had the title of Creative Director; don’t let the titles go to your head.
[36:37] Danno: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the important thing, and I, I think that’d be a good question to ask, like a actual recruiter when they pass over those at the initial onset. And I do feel like that’s true of, you know, you put Creative Director on there and it’s like, well, we’re not, we’re not an ad agency. And, like, we’re not looking for a Don Draper.
Dillon: Yeah.
Danno: Uh, when I was at an ad agency, I was, uh, I gave myself the name of “Dan Draper.” Okay. So dumb.
Dillon: Okay.
Danno: Anyways, that’s a separate thing. But, um, so I, um, uh, yeah, just like the title I just more, more often than not, when you go and look at like my resume, or just people who have, who have jobs that maybe like Facebook and things and you wonder, like, you know, they might have their resume public and you go look at that. [37:30] Sometimes it’s just Designer or UX Designer, whatever it might be. But Designer or you know very simplistic titles like kinda stripped the “Senior” off this or that because it’s, I mean if you’re looking for a senior level position they were actually was I had a discussion today about Podium.
Dillow: Yeah.
Danno: Like, kind of cutting off junior-level designers cause they’re looking for more seniority in those cases. That might be the thing.
I just think you really need to again be mindful about what that title is and does it apply to that job, to that description?
And then- you read through resumes. So, obviously, you are looking for specific things and I guess I’d pass it back to you and say how does that affect you?
38:12 Dillon: Well I, one thing that I’ve learned at my time at Domo is that companies, they, the thought that they put into titles just varies from company to company, and what Domo does for job titles, I think a lot of people who look at it from the outside kind of like gaff at, like you’ve got to do what for how long before you get a senior title? And you’ve got to do what 38:36 for how long before you get a principal title? Like, “Oh, if I went to this place, they give me a senior title right away.” And so like people just weight these different things so differently that the title means very little to me. The experience, the time, those things are actually a better indicator to me of how much, uh, how much seniority you have in the industry.
Danno: Sure.
Dillon: Um, if you’ve got a, he’s had three different jobs. He was at each of these jobs for three years.
Danno: Yeah.
Dillon: Okay. He’s at the Senior level of design. Um, not necessarily. There’s like a cut and dry way of doing this, but eventually we’re going to see resume event portfolio. Eventually we’re going to get them in for an in person interview and those types of things, we’ll be able to vet out what level they’re really at.
39:21 Danno: Yeah. So looking at it like this. Okay. So you go to a startup and you’re the third designer there and you’re all given the title of Senior UX Designer. I was like, cool, that’s my title. You then go to a product company who’s got 200 designers, let’s say, and you’re now a Designer.
Dillon: Okay.
Danno: Does that mean that you’re less?
Dillon: You got demoted it on paper?
Danno: Yeah. It’s like what does that, so if you move up the list of like a resume and you’re like a “Senior Product Designer,” “Designer,” it’s like, wait, wait, why did you go down?
Dillon: Yep.
Danno: So if you try to keep things stripped, I think, I think that’s a really, actually a great point to take away from this that I didn’t really think about before is, put down the title in its simplistic form, and then really hit it home with those, you know, the description, or the bullet points of like what you did and you know, I dunno, segue into this right now is where we want to go.
[40:18] But with those bullet points is the impact that you had, not a list of responsibilities, you know, relay what you did.
So, um, and just from feedback from the same, um, VP of HR up in Seattle was like, “Hey, you know, Qualtrics, what, what did you do?”
“Well I, I built survey themes.”
“Okay, don’t put that you built survey themes down. How many survey themes did you build?”
“Like a hundred plus. Like definitely like, html, javascript … ”
He’s like, “Hey, that means that you’ve coded a lot of stuff. If you did a hundred of those, that’s a lot of things. How many screens did you work on for an app total?”
Like you’ve designed a ton of screens and it’s like those things and it, not only does it like, show experience, but it’s easy to glance through that resume and it’s very important, in my opinion, to write them out as “three-zero-zero,” you know, textually, you read 300 ‘cause then I can look down and say, “Oh, 300 what is 300? Oh, oh nice.”[41:24] That’s really good. Or a number, you know, like you and increased, you know, growth by Blah Blah Blah. By launching this feature. It’s like, Ooh, 300%, whatever it might be.
Dillon: Right.
Danno: It’s like, these show like the impact that you had in the company, or the experience, and just like how many things you did, that means that you probably know what you’re doing in that space.
Then when you come in, they’ll get into the realm of like, how senior is this person? Do they seem like they have done this a lot? Because how does somebody move, let’s say from a Designer at one company to a Senior Designer, at another? It’s obviously not title to title. It’s we bring them in. We see.
Dillon: Yep.
Danno: They’re ready to be a senior and we want them to senior here.
[42:10] Dillon: So I was initially put off when I got to Domo and they didn’t give me the senior title, like my mind, I was like, WTF? What just happened?
Like, I’ve led design teams, I’ve been doing this for five years. Like, I was kind of like, and they’re like, don’t let the title get to you. Like, we’ll vet this out. We’ll see what happens. We’ll give it six months. And you know, uh, once I realized that they weren’t, they weren’t equating title to compensation. Like none of that existed. It was like, “Oh, wait, titles really don’t matter, do they?” And it was like, nope, they sure don’t.
We’ll jump into the bullet points. Cause I think you brought up a couple of interesting things, but I want to, one of the things that I did in applying for Domo that I think actually helped more than anything is I went back and I got rid of all those Creative Director titles because they were titles thrown out willy-nilly. I didn’t feel like that was being dishonest. I put more what it actually was. It was a UX Lead. There’s teams that we had, and I was leading the teams, and it was in the UX world.
Danno: Yeah.
Dillon: And that was helpful.
[43:09] Danno: I think that’s, I think that that’s actually really great. Because what I think if you stripped down a title to the, like I said, the basic form, but like if you strip down a Creative Director is what is a Creative Director really doing? And then you say, okay, well how can I put that into a very short statement, a Design Lead, let’s say? Or, yeah … you just got to kind of focus. But yeah, like specific titles like Creative Director, which you’ll actually notice in mine that is still on there. But if you put like Creative Lead or something like that, something that disconnects from what is normally thought of for that but still relays what you did, I think is really important to … I wonder if there’s a sense of it of like, not humility, but when you look at that resume and you’re just like, oh, okay, so they’ve led the design team probably. Cool. That’s, that’s kind of what they’re looking for.
Dillon: Yeah. So maybe a skill that they’re looking for it, right?
Danno: Yes. And that, that’s uh, again, back to the skills.
Dillon: Yeah. [44:13] No, I mean it’s interesting. Now we, you mentioned a couple of things about bullet points that I continuously see done over and over again as they just list responsibilities, you know, specifically if I’m looking at designers portfolios, uh, of guys or girls coming out of school, most of their experience can exist in the world of what they did in school and they put down something like created a mobile app for this, worked with four people to do this. Uh, did usability research on this and it was just not dishonest. And I know you did that as a group, but you didn’t do that, right? That was part of the project. What did you do? Like what was your role in this and how did you, how did that affect what you guys were doing?
I think what you said about the numbers, however, I do feel like sometimes people get a little bit fictitious or the, they let the numbers lie for him, like 300% growth type stuff. It was like, well, you went from one to three. Congratulations!
Danno: Yeah.
Dillon: Um, sometimes I think you can let the numbers do a little bit dirty work for you, but, uh, I do like seeing the, how you contributed more so than I like seeing just the list of my job responsibilities included.
Danno: Right. And I guess, um, yeah, [45:33] it’s always when, when I’ve looked at the resumes.
So, when I was at BYU-Idaho, I was at an ad agency and just looking through like students’ resumes on there and a, the pieces that always seemed to stand out to me, you know, in writing the description, for, in our job was people who like mentioned their team because we needed a good team players at our ad agency.
And I know it’s tough to, cause sometimes you’re on a project alone, and whatever it might be, but it’s just really like, you know how well, there’s a whole other thing about like language and, you know, saying “I,” and stripping the “I’s”out of it. It’s just like, this is what happened. Improve ‘blahblahblah,’ built ‘dadada,’ you know, those types of things. But being able to write that in a form that basically takes you out of it.[46:25] It’s like this wasn’t a look at me. Look how, you know, like, how cool I am. It was like, no, this was done and it helped this company and you relate that. It’s like, as a company, I’m like, “Dang, this guy really cares about what they work on.”
Dillon: It wasn’t putting himself on the pedestal.
Danno: It’s like you know, you don’t get hired at a company for them. Like for them to help you. Let’s say they’re hiring you because they want you to help them do something in that exchange you will probably get something in return, but they’re hiring you to fulfill a business need that they have.
Dillon: Yup.
Danno: So if you’re relaying on your resume, the business impact or whatever about these past former companies, the respect that you have for those, and I will say this like there might be times when you have a company you work for that [47:15] there’s, this is a whole other discussion about like interpersonal communication. Let’s say you got fired from a company or you get fired from a company, how you leave that company, how you handle a performance plan at a company or whatever it might be like that is extremely important and it shows a lot about you.
So, you know, in the future, but on a resume you can tell somebody who’s full of themselves or not. You can tell somebody who cares about the company versus like what they did. And I, I will say that I think probably my resume in ways is a little bit full of myself, and to be honest, like it should show you off a little bit. But realistically, yeah, it’s like, be like, show that you are a solution for that company, because here’s where I’ve been a solution to this other company.
Dillon: Yup.
Danno: And that, and that’s really what it is.
[48:12] Dillon: And I liked how you phrased that because people could easily say, yeah, I’m going to show how I’m the solution for the company and not how you’re the solution for the company, how you can contribute to the solution for them.
[48:24] Danno: Yeah. It’s because if they’ll hire you, they’re going to find somebody else to do it for you them. You are not the solution. You should be showing that you know how to facilitate. That’s a really hard word to say for me, lately. But facilitate, facility-
Dillon: We’ll put subtitles on this for you.
Danno: -facilitate. That’s perfect for you. The solution, you know, how to create the environment for the thing to be successful.
Dillon: One-hundred percent.
Danno: And, and, yeah …
On soft-skills and navigating feedback and critique
[48:57] Dillon: You hit on soft skills. I know you said there’s a whole different other conversation, these interpersonal skills, these people skills. That’s something that I could, I have been harping on now for awhile and I will continue to harp on because I do think that makes somebody employable in the way that you can come across as humble, teachable, still hungry.
There’s balance in all of this, but you can learn a lot by just how the way people phrase things. You can learn about a lot about how they get into the interview and they come across how they respond to challenges. How they- you know, I personally, when I’m interviewing, I find a way to ask challenging questions or maybe questions that would catch people off guard. And even sometimes I ask questions that I know are really dumb because I want to see how somebody handles it. I want to see, are you going to treat me like I’m an idiot? [49:47] Are you going to treat me like I don’t know what I’m talking about? Are you going to belittle me? Or if I ask a challenging question that, uh, I know you haven’t thought about. Are you going to come up with an answer straight out of your butt or are you going to say, as in my opinion, a UX Designer should, “I actually don’t know the answer to that. But what I’d like to do is I’d like to ask more questions and I’d like to dig into that further before I actually come up with a new solution.” Or are you throwing a solution right out of thin air, right?
Like, those are these interpersonal skills that you really can pick up in an interview and that makes candidate stand out so much further than what a resume dose. And that’s a whole another topic.
Danno: Like, and again on this whole other topic is before [50:28] you ever like write things down in a resume that you’ve done, is this whole aspect of interpersonal communications because the resume specifically, you know, this conversation is focusing on that, but after you get the interview, just as a small tidbit is, like, how are you going to handle that interpersonal communication with them in any, like, whatever’s thrown at you? ‘Cause you might have a really sarcastic person that interviews you and, you know, obviously, everybody handles that different. But just how do you carry yourself?
Dillon: Yup.
Danno: Are you humble about it? I will say just so everybody is aware of this, um, at one of these former companies I was on a performance improvement plan and for many different reasons, honestly. But the thing is, is there was two ways for me to handle that when they approached me about it and it was-get really mad and be like, this is ridiculous, [51:23] quit, or whatever it might be. But you know, it was what it was. They recognized areas that I can improve. And I said, you know what? You’re right. Let’s, let’s do it. Let’s improve.
Dillon: I love it.
Danno: And it was a, let’s improve. It was let’s work together so that I can still be a part of this company and you can still feel like you trust and are confident in, you know, in me. And I knew. And by the end of that, I learned so much about how to handle feedback.
And I think, you know, when you’re in design critiques, uh, in school, one of the most, the best environments for you to get prepared for these interviews is these critiques, is these feedback sessions, and where a teacher might, I was so grateful- actually, you probably remember this teacher!
Dillon: I already know who you’re going to say.
Danno: Brother Randall.[52:14] He would rip the hell out of things.
Dillon: Kids would cry, dude. Yeah, I saw people walk out.
Danno: People wouldn’t go to him after hours because … but, you know what? I appreciate so much of that man and also Brother Mehmet because, man, I might start crying.
Dillon: [laughs]
Danno: Holy cow! No, as soon as you, because it’s, it’s really important for you, as a human being. I don’t care about if you’re in design, it’s really important for you as a human being to understand that you’re not all that, that your design is not you, that you are a, again, facilitator of solutions.
You are supposed to be contributing to society, to a company and to be able to separate, and that’s why it’s really important in the resume. You separate this kind of egotistical sense from really what you can help with. That’s like an end all, be all .
Dillon: Mic drop, dude. I mean, yeah, I hated any of Randall’s classes.
Danno: They’re intense. Like no doubt. Like it’s tough to want to go.
Dillon: Purely because of him, like legit, dude. Some of these and I came from the business world, right, where the, in the books, either you know the books balanced or they don’t, right? There’s a right answer and a wrong answer.
[53:26] And when I got into the art world, I was like, dude, this is gonna be a cakewalk. Who’s to say that what answer’s wrong? Like I can throw paint on the canvas and I’m right. Right? That’s how it works here.
Danno: And Randall walks up to you and says, “So, why are you doing that?”
Dillon: Dude, I kid you not. I had this one project that I put up on the board and it was red text over this black background and he tore me apart. That was as close as I ever got to walking out of a class- tore me apart, and I was going like, “Who does this dude think he is?” Like how can you- sure, you may think that way, but does anyone else think that way? This is early in this career. I walked away from that class to today going, I am more grateful for that single class than any of the other classes because that’s still something that I, at time to time, I will struggle with being able to separate my work from my personal, a personal critique.
Danno: For sure.
Dillon: But that is huge. And how you respond to critique is not a personal attack. It’s not a reflection on you is, is tough specifically if you’re new at a place or if you’re trying to like stand, I’ve got to prove myself in my first month here and they’re giving me feedback. Like they’re, they’ve got buyer’s remorse in hiring me. No, that’s not the case. You’ve got to, you got to detach yourself from your product because that’s not the case.
[54:41] Danno: You know, it’s interesting that you say that because people, humans, but when you’re in these new positions and you get that kind of, uh, sorry, what do you call it when you feel like an imposter syndrome, right?
Dillon: Yeah.
Danno: Well that’s, that’s for everyone. First off, just not that, that’s everyone. Um, but when you have a, someone on the team approach you in like question this and question that and question that and then all of a sudden in your head and you’re like, man, they probably made a wrong decision. Like they’re probably thinking that right now.
First off, you created that story in your own head. They didn’t create that. But what is important for you to do is how do you handle after that? That’s what they want to see because you can train somebody to do pretty much anything, but you can’t train them to communicate really well.
55:29 I mean it can be a learned thing, but like-
Dillon: Hard skills are easier to learn than soft skills.
Danno: Sketch? Easy.
Dillon: Yup.
Danno: You’ll learn that, whatever. But when somebody approaches you and says, I don’t like this, this, this and this, and you’re like, oh, okay. Um, what? Like what are you talking about? I think what’s most important though within that space, I think kind of what random might’ve been looking for or what other people need a are, are more than likely looking for is I want to say, I want to understand why you did that thing because if you can’t, you know, the big thing that I’ve been talking about lately is like if that thing doesn’t have a reason for being there, why is it there, and tell me why it’s there, and you know. And, actually, Brother- do you remember Brother Mehmet?
Dillon: Oh, One-hundred percent.
Danno: Okay. So the first project you do in that class is you create three posters at the very end of the class and you put them up on the wall,56:24 take one down, and then he says, okay, now snap that project in hand.
Dillon: Randall made us do that.
Danno: And you’re like, “Wait, what?” So many people were like, oh, and just, you know, you’d just keep hearing boards start snapping.
Dillon: This for those who are listening, what you’re not getting a part of this is that this was weeks’ worth of work, the time and dedication … critique, critique; this is a final critique.
Danno: This is a final project.
Dillon: You’re turning in your three posters and he says “Destroy one,” and you’re like, “Oh, I can’t, I’m so attached to what I’ve done.”
Dude, that was such a good lesson. Right. Okay.
Unfortunately, we probably hit our time mark, but I would love to be able to do a part two with you because I think the getting into the office after your resume has been seen and they call you in this skills in an interview I think is something that you and I can chat about quite a bit, as well.
[57:14] Danno: If there’s one final thought I would leave with resumes: it’s really just being mindful of, “How does what’s on there contribute to what they’re looking for?”
In all honesty, is, whether that’s the experience piece, the skills piece, the education piece, like, including your hobbies- you can do that after you get hired. You can talk about your hobbies with them, don’t put that on there, but the meat of that resume should show how you are a person who will help solve problems for them.
Dillon: One-hundred percent. Okay, Danno, thanks for coming on.
Danno: Thank you. This is great.
Dillon: For those listening- Danno, you can find him on LinkedIn, connect with him, shoot him messages.
Danno: Yeah. Actually …
Dillon: Blow him up.
Danno: -if anybody wants to send me their resumes to review, or whatever that might be, you can go out on to … Actually, I can send you some links that you can put in the description of this that they can reach out and contact me through- I’ve got a little Calendly calendar set up specifically for people to contact me. And we can do over the phone interviews and whatever, just to talk through things. I’m not an expert, just so everyone knows.
Dillon: He’s making himself available.
Danno: But I’ve, I’ve talked to a lot of experts.
Dillon: That’s awesome.
Danno: … and I can give some-
Dillon: Well, that’s nice of you.
Danno: … some information.
Dillon: Cool. Well that’s a wrap, man.
Danno: Awesome. Thanks a lot. See you guys.
***
You can schedule time with Danno at: https://calendly.com/doseofdanno
If you enjoyed this episode, another video you should definitely check out is this one: https://youtu.be/gDw1IXXPMlo
If you have questions about an episode, suggestions about what you’d like to dive into on an episode of Designed Today in the near future, or just want to reach out, I would love to hear from you.
Thank you,
Dillon Winspear | Designed Today
You can find me through all the expected social profiles — Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram — as well as, of course, my company website.
