AMA with the CEO of Polkacover — Kunal Sadani

DuckDao
DuckDao
Nov 14, 2020 · 20 min read

On Friday the 12th of November, the DuckDAO community had an AMA with the CEO of Polkacover — Kunal Sadani

Polkacover — A Summary

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Polkacover is the First DeFi insurance marketplace for the global crypto ecosystem. They aim to give the power back to the people by lowering the transactional and administrative costs of Insurance policies and coverages, while providing high value with cost-effective insurance products for the crypto world.

Polkacover will connect users and multinational insurance providers with all global insurance products such as crypto-related protection, health, life, education, and family insurance plans. The platform will include a frictionless insurance marketplace experience that incorporates next generation blockchain technology and tokenized incentives.

So what services does the Polkacover Network Provide?

  • Compare & Buy Insurance
  • Making Insurance Accessible to All
  • Lowered Insurance Pricing by Removing Middleman
  • A Cross Border Payment Solution
  • A Fast,Transparent & Painless Claims Management
  • A Secure & Fraud Proof Platform

Website: https://www.polkacover.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/polkacover/about/

Telegram: https://t.me/joinchat/Sc_DyFJogkbsi2m8ntWXtA

Twitter: https://twitter.com/polkacover

Participants:

Polkacover — Kunal Sadani — Founder CEO

DuckDAO — Limmy — DuckDAO community representative

Please note that the following summary has been edited for clarity.

Limmy | DuckDAO

Welcome everyone to another DuckDAO AMA. It has been some time since our last one but now we’re back! This time we’re going to do it in the Lobby channel.

We are joined today by Kunal Sadani, the founder and CEO of Polkacover.

Thank you very much for joining us here today.

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Thanks Limmy ! Glad to be here !

Limmy | DuckDAO

Glad to have you :)

Before we leap into the community questions, please tell us a bit about yourselves. What are your backgrounds/experiences and how did you find yourselves in the crypto space?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Sure .. Anthony & I have been based in Dubai (UAE) for over 15+ years.

I have previously worked with multinational insurance companies (AIG & Allianz) in senior leadership roles building products & partnerships in the Middle East & Africa Region. In my last role, I was heading the Retail Insurance vertical for Policybazaar ( which is an insurtech valued at over $1billion with VC partners like SoftBank & Tencent) reporting into the CEO. My experience has revolved developing, building & managing large scale B2C insurance products & markets for over 10 years from scratch..

Anthony was working with Allianz Partners for over 4 years and was part of a strategic development team where he worked in building third party implementations, automation engines & workflows for insurance partners & third party vendors in a B2B & B2C environment. Anthony has been working in creating back end solutions for these insurance products and we have previously worked together as well on several projects for Allianz which is where we had met.

I had gotten introduced to crypto back in early 2016 and had immediately fallen in love with the crypto ecosystem with a firm belief that decentralized products & services would be the future of all economies. Once I was a believer, I dragged Anthony into the crypto world and made him a believer as well !!

Limmy | DuckDAO

So basically, a transition from the traditional insurance space into crypto

I’ve actually been working in the traditional insurance space myself for the last few years (well, pensions and dabbling in insurance), so I can understand the need for a solution such as the one you guys are providing.

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Yes. We saw that there was a massiv need for insurance products with not many providers in this space so we got on a mission to create a insurance marketplace platform which could benefit the larger crypto marketplace

Limmy | DuckDAO

Fantastic. Ok so I think we’ve had a bit of a late start today, so we shall dive right in!

How does Polkacover differentiate itself and what plans do you have to overcome the first mover advantage of other insurance platforms currently on the market such as Nsure or Nexus Mutual?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Well… It would probably be best to clarify that we are not competing but providing complementary services within the crypto ecosystem with other insurance providers.

When comparing Nsure/Nexus Mutual, our solutions & road to market are quite different. Nexus Mutual & Nsure are focused on providing Smart Contract Insurance/Cover which is managed through community pools that is aimed towards the astute crypto user ( You need to have a basic understanding of use Metamask & how community pools work to be able to transact on their platform )

We are targeting the Mass-market of crypto users providing mass market products ( i.e. exchange hack / exchange bankruptcy etc.) which are not being provided by any provider in our space. The platform is being designed to have 2 step user experience to make purchases.

Our P2P Insurance platform might have similarities with Nexus Mutual “in structure” but the products are completely different. Separately, we are also building an insurance marketplace which is with traditional insurance providers who would be providing various other insurance products for crypto users which is unique to our platform. We actually are also looking to onboard Nexus Mutual / Nsure & other insurance protocols where we would create an insurance marketplace of decentralized providers in 1 place.

In terms of First mover advantage, Nexus mutual is currently the only provider who have 1 product available and have done a great job in opening up the insurance vertical in crypto. However, The entire crypto space is wide open to us as the products we are bringing to the space have no competition.

Here is sneak peek of what’s being built:

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Limmy | DuckDAO

Ahh I see, so basically, you are tapping into a much broader market with a larger range of products and a greater amount of coverage for the average user.

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Yep. We are looking at providing a lot more products over just crypto insurance.

Limmy | DuckDAO

Insurance is a sensitive topic as it requires personal data to adequately track what needs to be insured. As we know, the block chain is all about decentralization and being anonymous. How does Polkacover tackle this issue? Will there be any legal complications due to storing user data etc?

As an extension to the above question, data protection is key in insurance. How will our data be stored and protected from hackers? Have the smart contract(s) been audited?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Great question!

Data protection is key and is even more important when it comes down to providing insurance services.

When working in our insurance marketplace model, we wont be storing user data but would act as an intermediary between the user & the insurance company.

In its simplest form, user data received on the platform is transmitted to the insurer via API’s ( routing it through our oracle partner). The process repeats during policy issuance.

Limmy | DuckDAO

Right, so because you will be working with established providers, they will already have these strict data protection practices in place.

(well, hopefully haha)

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Yes. These are large insurance providers, so the due diligence around data protection is managed at their end.

😂

Quite sure they know what they are doing ..

Limmy | DuckDAO

Hahahaha.

The next question is a pretty key one:

Crypto Insurance products, as they are a new vertical, are a heavily regulated industry globally. How will you get around this, and in which jurisdiction(s) will you focus on?.

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

For crypto insurance, the initial access will be available to about 120 countries. We would know the exact number of countries once we get the final sign off from our insurance partners on our crypto products.

In terms of jurisdiction, although our Business team is based in Dubai ( and the tech team is based in India), the marketplace platform will be incorporated out of BVI to allow us(and the insurers) to be able distribute these policies to a global audience. as Dubai does not allow such flexibility to distribute insurance products globally.

Most of the western countries ( barring US/Canada) will be available to purchase in the initial launch. As US/Canada is heavily regulated markets, we would look at adding them on at a later stage once we receive approval from the insurers & our legal advisors.

Limmy | DuckDAO

So is this a similar case to what you mentioned above with data protection — the … “fine detail” of the regulation is handled by the insurance providers/trustees in each jurisdiction that you are working with?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Yes. As Insurance & crypto regulations need to be considered when we go live, we need to work in jurisdictions where the insurers ( and crypto users) can access these products without penalties :)

Limmy | DuckDAO

Definitely want to avoid the wrath of regulators ;)

Are there measurements in place to prevent fraudulent claims? As we know in the traditional insurance space, one can easily create a fraudulent injury report/death certificate to claim a huge insured sum. How does Polkacover ensure all claims are valid?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Oh ! This is gonna be a long one.. I’ll try and make it concise ..

We can’t ! and neither can the insurers at this stage …

Unfortunately, fraudulent claims happen in all models of insurance (traditional or P2P).

Insurance plans are always made in good faith that the larger audience wants to use the policies to safeguard their interests ( and not defraud the insurer )

When it comes to claim’s management in the traditional insurance providers, the claim payouts are governed based on the T&C’s of the insurance providers. In case fraudulent claims are identified, the T&C’s are refined with new clauses to ensure fraudulent claims don’t get paid out any further. This method keeps refining the product & also allows the larger (good faith) policy users to be able to get better pricing in the long run.

In our P2P platform, claims assessment is managed to 3 steps.

  1. Insurance Risk Pool participants
  2. Claim Assessment Stakeholders
  3. Governance stakeholders

As P2P insurance is a community based claims management model.

If a claim is raised declined(by over 10%) and goes into a dispute with the policy holder, a review is held by a second level authority (Claim Assessment Stakeholders).

In case the case remains declined and still is disputed by the user, the final assessment is taken by the Governance body (which includes the Polkacover core team)

In case any bad actors are found in the risk pool/assessment stakeholders, their Stake is burned by the governance body. This is to control any misuse of power.

We would be shortly releasing V2.0 of the whitepaper over the next week where you would have a lot more details of the token ecosystem in the P2P insurance platform.

Limmy | DuckDAO

We look forward to learning more in V2 of the whitepaper. It was a tough question — fraud as I am sure you know is something that you can’t really get rid of completely

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Yep. You will find that this is an evil which exists across all lines of businesses . We can just work towards controlling to a tolerable level ..

Limmy | DuckDAO

Do you feel that the risks of insurance fraud are exacerbated by non-KYC relationships, where it may be harder to track and prosecute a bad actor? And do you think, much like road rage and internet trolling, this anonymity might bring out this sort of bad behavior?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Not to a degree of concern.

I feel there are equally bad actors even in KYC based transactions (eg. Enron !). It all boils down to a person’s intention to defraud or troll.

We are also working on building out products to ensure fraud is minimized and will keep working improving the product so the larger audience benefits from our products.

If there is a higher level of fraud witnessed in Non-KYC transactions, the pricing gets expensive …

Limmy | DuckDAO

Ah yes, premium hikes haha

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Risk/Reward profile 😁 .. Just like trading in crypto ..

Limmy | DuckDAO

How would one determine how much a policy would be insured for/paid out without the need of human interaction if all underwriting and claims are automated? Will there be any form of interaction from the team (or administrators) with the client? If so, how decentralised can Polkacover be?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Great question,

In the traditional insurance models, product/ pricing is managed by the insurer.

In our P2P model, initially, the Governance team (polkacover) would be working with insurance underwriters (pricing experts) when we build out our initial products. Once there is enough experience & data of claims. We would hand over the pricing function to the community. This is just to ensure that the community gains the needed experience from experts to understand how risk assessment is done. Once the knowledge transfer is done, we would hand over all aspects of P2P insurance management to the community to make it work similar to a DAO.

Limmy | DuckDAO

Ohh we love hearing about DAOs haha

In regards to the token usage, “All claims are paid using the token. Customers can choose to hold the payment in the token or choose to convert to fiat currency.”

Wouldn’t this cause a huge supply jump and cause the price to inflate? I understand there are incentives to hold the tokens longer but this could still be an issue. Wouldn’t it be better if the claims are paid in USDT or other stable coin?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Yes.

We would be providing both options to users (Acala’s Stablecoin or CVR).

What we have witnessed from our experience is that once a claim is made for the user, the intrinsic value of our provider/token grows substantially due to the positive user experience which gains the user long term loyalty.

Such experience creates additional value for users to again take out another policy & hold onto our token for future transactions within the platform.

We are also building our several other use cases on the token to build further retention of our token once a claim is transacted which would be shared in the next version of the whitepaper.

Limmy | DuckDAO

AI and machine learning are buzzwords nowadays and a lot of projects use them in their roadmaps. Can you explain in simple words how your artificial neural network will work and what will be some of the parameters for machine learning you’ll use in Polkacover claims? Do you really add additional value with them or you could do it without those technologies?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Lol ! We have worked hard not to use any technical jargon in our whitepaper or website and will try to answer the question in that same manner !

As we begin getting a high volume of policy issuances, we start receiving a lot of insight on the user journeys & motivations to transact on the platform. With the data, we would be able to customize the user experience & journey based upon their expected requirements.

When it comes to claims management, Claims can be divided into 2 broad categories.

  1. Low payout value ( below USDT 1000)
  2. High payout value ( Above USDT 1000)

When it comes to low payout values, the administration work that goes into validating a claim would end up financially costing more to the insurer than the claim payout value. In such scenarios, when there is significant claims data, we are able to expect & program the claims platform to allow a direct payout (in low payout cases) to the claimant without the intervention of a third party based on documentation provided. These claims are then reviewed on a monthly basis to further refine the automated claims payment engine.

P.S — I didn’t use AI or machine learning in my response ;)

Limmy | DuckDAO

Haha thanks for that

Machine learning is basically just a huge IF statement though isn’t it ;)

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

😂😂😂

Limmy | DuckDAO

Or in this case a CASE statement.

You’ve touched on this a little already in a previous answer, but:

Which cryptocurrencies and traditional payment options will be available on the platform, and what benefits are planned for people using CVR instead of other cryptos or stable coins?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

For purchasing Crypto Insurances products, You would need to purchase it using the CVR token only.

For the other insurance products, (Health/ Life/ Home etc. ), you can pay in CVR, BTC, ETH or USDT to start with. However, you receive discounted premiums for paying with CVR.

Limmy | DuckDAO

I can see that you also plan to provide stop-loss insurance against volatile price drops. How will this work? It seems like something that would be very difficult to implement.

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Well, the simplest way to explain this is:

  1. This is not open to all crypto currencies but mainly larger (less volatile) crypto currencies
  2. Currency drops 25% for over 24 hours (less than 24 hours, not eligible)
  3. he price needs to remain at lower price point for over 24 hours
  4. the First 15% is at your risk, the remaining price drop is covered by the insurer

The level of coverage/ Drop levels are still in discussion with the insurer but the above should give you an understanding of how it works.

Limmy | DuckDAO

Ah ok, so there are metrics in place to ensure there the coverage is proportional to the loss etc.

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Yes. A Mix & match depending on the crypto

Limmy | DuckDAO

I’m sure that users can read the product disclosure statements to get the finer details ;)

In the traditional insurance market, the amount of pay outs are gathered from the proceeds of selling the insurance. Will Polkacover be adopting the same revenue generating system? If not, what other ways are you generating revenue so that there are sufficient funds to be paid out?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Well, the revenue models work different depending on our platforms

  1. Traditional insurance marketplace — We get commissioned on every policy sale from our insurer
  2. P2P insurance marketplace — We receive percentage of the premium to manage the operational cost of the risk pool/governance/pricing support/R&D

Limmy | DuckDAO

P2P insurance as a business model is already being offered without blockchain technology. What does Polkacover do differently with the platform and what are the benefits using Polkacover for the clients?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Yes. P2P insurance is offered outside blockchain technology however, the products/services offered are geared for a non-crypto user(traditional products) . However, a lot of claims assessment & operations costs still remain centralized in the process although being “P2P”.

One of the main benefits of our platform is we are looking to launch niche products ( eg. Loss of NFT’s due to impermanent loss) which are geared & designed for crypto user’s and which are not “supported” by traditional insurance companies.

Separately, we are moving towards creating a model which is completely governed & managed by the community once there is enough data insight & experience of managing these different functions within the insurance product management.

Limmy | DuckDAO

Custom products I think are the key here. Trying to explain NFTs/Impermanent loss to my accountant was a headache lol

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

It was the same experience when I tried to explain NFT’s to my partners… So it’s just easier to design it within the community

Limmy | DuckDAO

Your offers cover key areas like health insurance, crypto insurance, life insurance, travel insurance, education plans and home cover. Will there be a fiat to crypto and vice versa mechanism on your platform to accommodate all types of users?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Yes.

We are speaking to a few providers which we would integrate into our user’s account wallet on our portal allowing a direct exchange between CVR/USD \ CVR/ETH to start with.

We would look at adding more currencies but initially we would have USD & ETH (and DOT once we migrate to polkadot) for conversion.

Limmy | DuckDAO

Ah ok cool :)

Our next set of questions will focus on the roadmap, and long term goals of Polkacover.

Any plans in the future to offer not only user level insurance, but also exchange/Institutional level insurance? I’m sure a lot of crypto based companies would prefer to have their assets insured within the crypto sphere for ease & compliance.

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

No.

Unfortunately, the risk levels/assessment ensuring an entire exchange is out of the appetite & scope of our (and our insurance partners) expertise.

We want to play to our strength & focus on the team’s experience to build an easy to use insurance marketplace for retail users.

Limmy | DuckDAO

That is fair enough — better to be focused and deliver a targeted solution!

I’m really impressed to see that your formation started before the Defi hype and product won’t go live until Q2 next year which means you are taking your time and doing your due diligence instead of rushed launches such as Andre Cronje’s advised $SAFE now rebranded as Cover Protocol which lost investors trust early on because of their lack of preparation. What would you say has been your biggest hurdle or achievement that you’ve been able to overcome/achieve so far which gives you an advantage over any present or future competitor?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

GETTING THE TRADITIONAL INSURANCE COMPANIES INTERESTED IN CRYPTO !!!!!

We have been speaking & educating traditional insurance companies for almost a year to warm them up to provide products for crypto users and it took us almost 10 months before we received an initial go ahead.

It is a mammoth task to make such insurance companies to provide support on such products and this is key in creating a robust product suite for our users.

Once we have a couple of providers onboard, the rest generally follow …

Limmy | DuckDAO

😂😂😂

Perfectly set up for our next question:

The global insurance business is one of the most competitive markets and unfortunately, sometimes very lengthy and ungrateful. Without the background of partnerships with global actors and multinational corporations, it might be difficult to establish / get adopted across the market.

There are some rumors of big partnerships but there’s nothing concrete currently for people doing their due diligence. Is there anything big planned or do you have to handle everything confidentially?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Not yet.

We have 2 providers who have given the initial approval to proceed on these products, however, we would be able to share the details once the insurance company has provided their final approval.

As these are traditional companies we are dealing with, we need to respect their requirement of confidentiality until they allow us to share the details.

Trust me ! There is no one more keen to share details of our partners than us but it has been an uphill journey to get these providers to a stage where we are confident to get out these products and cannot risk sharing information before we have their blessing …

Limmy | DuckDAO

People can’t resist asking those questions each AMA I think — and for good reason! A solid partnership with an established company outside of crypto is something that is pretty key for long term success and adoption :)

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Yes. A lot of it has come through as we have been in the insurance space for the last 15 years and based on our relations with these providers… we have been able to get them interested …

Limmy | DuckDAO

Could there be a reinsurance option/ structure built into P2P Polkacover insurance? Or do you predict there to be no market for reinsurance in a decentralised model?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

How did you guess that ??

We actually have this planned in our P2P insurance platform to reinsure a part of the risk using a reinsurance company ( Thus reducing the risk of users in our risk pool) and there is work that is happening around this.

We would be able share more information on this once we have a concrete partner supporting us for our products.

Limmy | DuckDAO

haha it is a good question. I’m thinking this user has earned themselves an NFT for that

I’m currently paying into my pension plan. I don’t have access to the funds ‘till I turn 65. I’ve been looking/shopping around for better alternatives that offer flexibility that borrows against the funds that are invested in pension schemes. Could you guys offer a product like this on your platform in future?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Yea mate … I felt someone was reading my mind …

We will but it is not in the short term for sure.

We are aiming to initially create more products around crypto insurance initially as there is huge untapped market there (LESS THAN 1% of crypto users are insured!! ) before we look at other lines of insurance products

Limmy | DuckDAO

Haha I am definitely not in the 1% — I feel like if I claimed insurance on my degenerate losses, it would be unfair 😂🤣

Ok final question before we open it up:

Can you explain in detail how the token burn with buying back and burning tokens from the open market on a quarterly basis will work?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Once the platform is live, we would be generating revenue for the policy sales ( from the traditional insurers) and operations revenue for the P2P insurance platform in the longer run.

After we covered our operational costs over a quarter, from the remaining revenue available to us, we would use 25% of the revenue to buy out tokens from our listed exchanges and burn them out of the supply ( similar to how binance does it as well )

Limmy | DuckDAO

Man I saw “binance” in your response and I freaked out for a second haha

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

😂😂 soooooon….

Limmy | DuckDAO

Ok we’ll now open the chat for those that have any further questions they wish to ask the team. Thank you very much Kunal for the excellent answers you’ve given to our community questions.

Please take your pick out of any questions that are submitted and we’ll finish up once you’ve answered them or you run out of time.

To our community:

Please keep the questions concise and don’t throw a wall of text at the team — I’ll close it up again when we get a good number to choose from.

🐥

What is the end goal of #Polkacover? To compete with the giants like AIA, Allianz, Great Eastern, Prudential? Or are you just simply bridging insurance and cryptocurrency and giving the users the alternative and providing coverage for crypto. And what happens if any of those giants were to step into the crypto space?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Well … We would not compete with them but instead would onboard them as partner’s onto our insurance marketplace. We would work as a distribution partner for their products.

🐥

What is the difficulty in bridging traditional insurance markets and cryptocurrency? How do you intend to tackle it?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

The main issue faced is the lack of data & understanding of the crypto space which has been the barrier for entry for traditional insurers which we are working on breaking down.

🐥

Are Deals set up with larger companies to provide access to the insurances? From what I have heard you’re dealing as a connection spot between the user and the company.

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Yes. We are speaking to several insurers, However, we have 2 providers initially we would be launching with.

🐥

What do you think about crypto?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

I love it !

I quit my well established traditional day job to build polkacover because I believe in a decentralized future and want to be a key member in the movement.

🐥

Do you consider yourself as an aggregator?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Yes. I would exactly work as an aggregator in the traditional marketplace. However, we would be working in product creation/claims administration in our P2P model.

🐥

I understand you want to use big data for underwriting and the amount to be insured to clients. What if there were to be a case by case basis type of claim? Will there be an administrator we can contact?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Yes. For larger claims, the process would require manual intervention by the insurer or Governance body.

The smaller claims would move towards complete automation in the medium term

🐥

Are there details for the staking of CVR tokens? Is it possible for small investors and supporters of PolkaCover or only with higher amounts of CVR?

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Not Yet. The staking requirements are in development for the P2P insurance.

Limmy | DuckDAO

Once again, thank you so much for your time today Kunal, the answers have been very insightful. We’ll have the summary up sometime this weekend for everyone to read through.

Many thanks to the community as well — hopefully we haven’t grilled you too hard Kunal haha.

Kunal Sadani | PolkaCover

Great Limmy ! Thanks for having me and loved the questions, the community really has understood the project well and loved the support 👍👍👍

Over and out !

DuckDao Details:

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WHO WILL WIN? ONE VC OR THOUSAND DUCKS?

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DuckDAO is a community-backed digital asset incubator that provides promising early-stage crypto startups with the expertise, financial resources, and marketing power needed to fast track their progress on the path to success.

DuckDao

Written by

DuckDao

WHO WILL WIN? ONE VC OR THOUSAND DUCKS?

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DuckDAO is a community-backed digital asset incubator that provides promising early-stage crypto startups with the expertise, financial resources, and marketing power needed to fast track their progress on the path to success.

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