Expat Empire Podcast 20 | From Nicaragua Surf Camps to Digital Nomad with Chapin Kreuter
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Episode Description
In this episode of the Expat Empire Podcast, we will be hearing from Chapin Kreuter. Growing up in Southern California, Chapin developed an intense passion for surfing. He took the opportunity to move to Nicaragua to start a surf camp with his friend in 2005 and eventually transitioned into being a digital nomad in 2015 with his business Surf Progression Techniques. After visiting more than 40 countries and learning the ropes of the digital nomad lifestyle over the last few years, he has a lot of great insights and advice to share with us.
In this episode, you will learn:
- How to take the leap to go abroad as soon as the opportunity presents itself
- Lessons from trying to make income from passions
- Becoming a digital nomad even if you’re a beginner in using computers and online-based businesses
- How to balance taking action and planning out your steps while avoiding analysis paralysis
…and much more! You can follow Chapin on Instagram at misfitsandrejects and find the Misfits and Rejects podcast at misfitsandrejects.com. You can also check out his business Surf Progression Techniques at surfprogressiontechniques.com.
Here are links to some of the topics we discussed in this episode:
Eli Hermit produced the music for this episode, please check him out on Bandcamp at elihermit.bandcamp.com/.
Please leave us a review at ratethispodcast.com/expatempire.
Expat Empire updates:
Learn more about Expat Empire and schedule your free consulting call to plan your move abroad at expatempire.com!
Episode Transcript
Intro
Welcome to the Expat Empire Podcast, the podcast where you can hear from expats around the world and learn how you can join them.
Hi everyone, thanks for joining us today for the 20th episode of the Expat Empire Podcast.
Before we jump into today’s interview, I want to take this opportunity to give you a quick update on Expat Empire.
I’d first like to give a big thanks to everyone that helped fill out our survey about where you get your information about moving, living, and working abroad. Your feedback will be used to determine what kind of content Expat Empire will create and where we’ll be posting it, so look forward to some exciting new developments coming your way in 2021!
On the topic of content, it’s been two years in the making, but we have finally managed to register the Expat Empire trademark in both the downloadable podcast and ebook categories, so you can expect many more episodes of this show and new books from us in the coming months.
Next, the Goodbye America online video interview series is currently running through January 3, 2021. While my interview has already premiered on the website, it will be available for replay for 48 hours at the end of the series alongside 20 more expat interviews, so sign up today to get full access.
Last but not least, as we go into a new year with some positive signs that we will be able to come out of this pandemic situation, it’s a great time to make plans for your next move abroad. Whether you are looking to make your first move, transition into life as a digital nomad, or just want someone to talk to about your travel and moving dreams, we are ready to help you think through the next steps in your journey abroad. We are currently offering a limited number of free 30-minute consulting calls to help people just like you to jumpstart their moves abroad, so please contact us to book your time before it’s too late and all the spots are taken!
You can get links for all of these updates in the show notes for this episode.
With all of that said, today we will be hearing from Chapin Kreuter. Growing up in Southern California, Chapin developed an intense passion for surfing. He took the opportunity to move to Nicaragua to start a surf camp with his friend in 2005 and eventually transitioned into being a digital nomad in 2015 with his business Surf Progression Techniques. After visiting more than 40 countries and learning the ropes of the digital nomad lifestyle over the last few years, he has a lot of great insights and advice to share with us.
Without further ado, let’s start the conversation.
Conversation
David McNeill: Hey, Chapin. Thanks so much for joining us today on the Expat Empire Podcast.
Chapin Kreuter: Hey, David, nice to be here. Thanks for having me.
David McNeill: Perfect. So I’d love if you could just start us off with a little bit about your background, where you originally from, where around the world you’ve lived so far? And where are you right now?
Chapin Kreuter: I’m from Southern California. And actually, currently, in Southern California, I kind of got stuck here due to the COVID. I spent the better part of the last 15 years in Nicaragua. I moved there in 2005, and stayed pretty much through 2017 with some John’s around the world here and there staying in other places around the world as well for you know, six months at a time. But yeah, Nicaragua has been my home base for quite some time, and traveled to little over 40 countries throughout my travels. And thinking about moving to Mexico in the New Year, when Mexico is open, I just took a quick little trip down there for like five days. I love Mexico, I speak decent Spanish, I’d like to improve my Spanish and surf some more. So that’s where my head’s at right now.
David McNeill: Great. And so yeah, I’d love to hear a little bit more about Nicaragua. So I personally haven’t been there. And I haven’t had any guests on the podcast so far that have, you know, at least lived there or spent more than maybe a trip. So I’d love to hear more about what drew you there in the first place? How you found it, how you decided that was your spot? Walk me through basically your transition from Southern California to living in Nicaragua in 2005.
Chapin Kreuter: So actually, I come back from a year-long traveling trip, I passed through Nicaragua and like, I think it was 99. I had driven from LA to Costa Rica with a buddy. So I passed through Nicaragua, it was a place I knew had waves. I was excited to maybe someday get back there but took a few detours along the way. And then when I come back from a year-long adventure with a good friend of mine, I bumped into an old high school friend who had just bought some land in Nicaragua, married a Nicaraguan woman, and was starting a surf camp.
So the travel bug had bitten me. In 1998, I had spent some time in Costa Rica in a small little village called Port Oviedo and really knew that I wanted to live in a little village like that. So that’s when I decided that trying to become an Expat at some point in my future was something I wanted to do. And I did the whole travel thing and then when this opportunity presented itself to move to Nicaragua, and help my friend start a surf camp; I just jumped on. Jumped on it super quick, quit my job, within two weeks I was down there. And we were starting the surf camp together.
David McNeill: What was the job that you quit? It sounds like you were quite obviously quite ready to go and looking for that opportunity. What were you leaving behind essentially, to make that big life change?
Chapin Kreuter: It was really just a… I was just valeting cars. I’ve been home for like nine months roughly just valeting cars, reconnecting with my family, who I hadn’t seen in that year, I was gone. And just really digesting everything that had occurred over that year, what I wanted out of life, you know, after nine months of being in Southern California I was ready to hit the road again, and really give it a go. You know, kind of like in stories that you’ve told me about your desire to be in Japan. Well, my desire was just to be outside of America. I like the third world a lot; I like the tropics a lot because I like to surf. I like the warm weather, so when my friend invited me down to help him start the surf camp, just like serendipity. It was perfect; the perfect, it’s in alignment with exactly what I wanted.
David McNeill: Yeah, it sounds like it, especially as you said with that pre-existing interest in being where they’re good waves being where there’s opportunities to surf. Definitely aligned with that, so could you talk a little bit about your interest in surfing and how that developed into you know, this career for you ultimately?
Chapin Kreuter: Yeah, it was a bug that bit me as well as a young child. My dad took me down to the beach one day, he’s not a surfer, but I had seen people surfing and he got me a surfboard, a wetsuit. And I tried it, instantly knew this was something I wanted to really dive into and make a part of my life. So I’ve been surfing for like over 30 years at this point, and a huge part of my life. That and soccer we’re both really influential aspects of the things and decisions I tried to make throughout my life and how I could cultivate a lifestyle where I was doing one or the other at all times. So after my soccer career kind of ended, I wanted to get back into surfing. And with moving in Nicaragua, it really allowed me to take my surfing to a level that I never thought I was going to get to.
Surfing was something that I wasn’t really gifted at, I was athletic, and I could pick up a ball or a tennis racquet and do that stuff pretty naturally. But I think one reason I stuck with surfing for so long is that it didn’t come naturally. I really had to work hard at making myself better. And I am competitive, so having my friends progress a lot faster than me was annoying, at 25 years old I’m still not where I want to be as a surfer. A lot of my friends are like either still professional surfers at that point. And when you are 25 or finishing their careers as professional surfers and I’m still like at this intermediate level that I was never able to get over that hump with.
So going down having this opportunity right before the tourism wave hit Nicaragua I got there like two years before the tourism showed up. And I was surfing every day with my friends on average, six hours a day, different spots. So it’s like a buffet of waves. And that’s a very unique experience for a surfer. Because in Southern California, there’s usually a couple hundred guys out in the water, it’s highly competitive, it’s very difficult to get waves. So to really have that opportunity to just get wave after wave after wave, work on my technique, not have the pressure of competing with anybody, aside from myself, really took my surfing to a level that I couldn’t believe number one, but also because it was something I wasn’t naturally gifted at.
I had to come up with a formula and a way in which I could help myself improve since I didn’t have the network of people around me to like, kind of show me how to do certain moves, I came with this formula, basically, that really helped me get to the next level, which then I decided to apply to my coaching services that I’ve created since then, my online course that I’ve created since then, to help surfers progress there surfing. And it just kind of all transitioned into this new phase of my life where I’m trying to become a digital nomad, working on my online entrepreneurship skills, which, as we talked pre-show are nonexistent. But I can see it as; it’s a similar sort of feeling I had with surfing like, I want to be good at it. I’m not naturally gifted at it, so I can seem like me, pursuing this digital nomad career, and being an online entrepreneur is something that I’m going to do forever because it’s really difficult for me, I like the challenge.
David McNeill: Right, right. How did you actually change from doing this surf retreat in Nicaragua with your friend to now creating your online course and trying to bring it online? Because it’s obviously as you said, a totally different skill set. And indeed, trying to do something that is a physical activity, but to be able to provide a service or to be able to provide help that makes sense and digital context to people all around the world is, I would imagine quite different. So it’d be great to hear more about, you know, your thought process and how that transitioned, I guess about 10 years later, after you started the surf retreats, surf camp into this digital business, that now you’re focused on making your core and really developing that skill set going forward.
Chapin Kreuter: The time spent in Nicaragua was beautiful and powerful, and came to a point though, where my business partners wanted to leave. And I realized that the most beautiful aspect of my time down there was the relationships I cultivated with these people that we just had. So many ups and downs together, like the trials and tribulations of trying to run a business in a third world country sometimes just feel like it’s insurmountable like you’re never going to be successful. And Nicaragua, especially with, it’s not a great place for small businesses, for tax reasons. It’s like; it’s just difficult, always very difficult. And I’m also a traveler at heart; I want to be able to move around the world.
And I found myself just stuck there, even though it’s a beautiful country, beautiful people in a place, I can see myself wanting to have like a retirement home or, you know, make my primary residence, I’d like the freedom to be able to move around the world and make money without having to necessarily push people into waves and teach them how to surf on a daily. And so I stumbled across Pat Flynn, in 2014. And my world change. Like I didn’t really know anything about digital nomads, I didn’t know anything about online entrepreneurship; I didn’t really know how to use a computer. We didn’t have internet for the first like three years in this little village I lived in. So I’d have to drive an hour to get online to like, communicate with my family via email, didn’t really do the whole MySpace, Facebook thing. Like so, when I made this decision that I was going to try to become a digital nomad, online entrepreneur like I was starting from ground zero. But Pat Flynn’s podcast really, really was super helpful for me.
And just all the individuals he brought on, it really inspired me to stay motivated and figure out how I could do it. And even though I was following some of the things he was advising, I was learning that my ideas weren’t that good based on what he was saying, like the metrics you could use to determine if this is like a path you want to go down before just starting it and hoping. I knew because my lack of interest in computers, my lack of interest, really, in online entrepreneurship, if you will, this is the only thing that was going to keep me focused long enough to learn how to use a computer and learn the different things I needed to know to like create something was what I already knew in surfing.
So I kind of saw it as me taking what they were already doing with people’s golf swing. And I take people’s footage that they would send me and I could analyze it, break it down, and send them back something that was going to really help them progress because of that formula that I had created for myself to help me progress.
So that’s kind of where I started. I flew to Thailand because I knew there was kind of a digital nomad scene there and bumped into a guy at a bar whose like well, you should create a surf course and put on Udemy. And I had never considered that really because I was just kind of going to do this like YouTube channel and like I said, just be the golf swing of the surf world. And that’s kind of where it started and you know, I’ve been in it now six years, and although I have some knowledge to show for it, I can’t say I’ve made much money at it. But I’m at this phase right now I’ll probably pivot into something new. But it’s been an interesting, long, difficult road that has had a lot of beautiful aspects to it as well.
David McNeill: Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, there’s definitely lots of ups and downs. And I’m sure, yeah, over the last six years, you’ve seen, you know, quite some hills and troughs, I guess you could say. So in terms of actually becoming a digital nomad, so first, as you said, you went to Thailand. And what was your kind of goal as being a digital nomad? So of course, to see more places in Nicaragua, as you mentioned, but did you have an idea of which countries you want to go to or sort of? How are you going to leverage this new lifestyle to better align with your goals, or what you really want to be doing over the following years?
Chapin Kreuter: Yeah, so the Pat Flynn thing really made me think that passive income was attainable. And that my goal was then going to be to generate $500 a month of passive income. Because my years of being on the road and the years in Nicaragua, like I’ve designed my life to need very little. So 500 bucks a month was going to be plenty of money to do what I wanted to do on the road. And maybe I could save 100 bucks and buy a ticket home once a year. And so the goal was, yeah, just to create something, generate mostly passive income from it, whether it’s a YouTube channel with, you know, sponsorship, or this course that I created, that I could just automate, through, you know, email funnels and stuff like that, and have people purchasing my course. And I can sleep and make money, you know, thought into that, which, for everybody listening, that is not that real. Like, it always takes work.
Yes, you can automate systems. And yes, I do actually make some sales while I’m sleeping, which feels great. But it’s never like completely passive, you can never walk away from it, and have it continue to run and make tons of money.
Anyways. So yeah, I was going to be kind of, I’d probably always stick to third world countries, generating, you know, 500 bucks a month through this online enterprises. And that was the only plan I had. So my goal was to generate 500 bucks a month in passive income within the first six months. And then I think three years later, when I did my numbers when I did my books at the end of 2018 if they averaged out what I made off of my course, passively, it did add up to 500 bucks a month, but it was very turbulent year. I mean, I think I made most of that money at the end of 2018. Because I was in this like, digital nomad mastermind, where everyone was helping me out. And I made, you know, like, I don’t know, like three grand in 10 days, because everybody was helping me with my funnel.
David McNeill: Right, right. Well, that’s great. I mean, that obviously getting that instant community, being able to get that feedback that helped to be able to make the next step in your business is fantastic. Do you have any advice about finding those communities and being able to take those steps? Because I mean, I think that would be helpful for me, even in this case, just to bounce ideas off of people. And there are these masterminds, but there’s so many of them out there that it’s a little hard to know where to look, or what to trust and who to talk to, right?
Chapin Kreuter: Yeah, I was trying to find people like yourself, and like people who do live the digital nomad life for a very, very long time. And it was very difficult. And you meet a lot of people trying to sell you something and like, a lot of people who really don’t have a clue what they’re talking about in groups that, you know, might have a lot of very successful entrepreneurs in it. But they’re there more to like, try to capitalize on other people within the group, you know, or like, they’re just there to like, talk about how great they are at what they do.
And it wasn’t until I met this guy, Chris Reynolds, who has a podcast called on Business Method Podcast, he introduced me to the Dynamite Circle, and the Dynamite Circle is another international mastermind of just the most amazing people who are so helpful. And give way more than they take. Chris Reynolds has his own little thing called Get Shit Done, which is kind of my intro into this group. It’s in Thailand every year; it’s just been so helpful. I mean, I can’t say enough positive things about the Dynamite Circle, if you want to check them out. It’s a paid mastermind. So you got to pay to play but you know, they are so helpful. And it’s such…Dan and Ian, who hosted are just great, guys.
David McNeill: Cool. Yeah, that’s good to hear. I’ve heard of it as well, so good to get some positive feedback and positive reviews. And I was curious, so you went first to Thailand, did you stay there for a long time? Or were you actually, let’s say, taking advantage of your relatively newly found location, freedom to move to a lot of different places. I mean, to me, it’s always interesting, the idea of the freedom to be able to go anywhere, but at the same time, then you have to decide where you want to go, how long you want to stay, how much you want to be going to different cities, let alone different countries while trying to grow your business and build those relationships. And then if you’re gone next week, can you do manage to keep in touch so I realized there’s a lot in there but I just love to hear more about how you transition to that more location, independent life, and how that changed your lifestyle.
Chapin Kreuter: Great question! For me, and everyone out there listening or anybody who gets experiences, you kind of develop your own style of how you move around the world. And I like to try to stay my full visa, Thailand doesn’t really give you that long, they give you like a month. So actually if you land but you can go to the embassy and get like a two month or six months. So I try to stay as the whole length of the visa and Thailand specifically, because it’s such a short amount of time like I try to do three months. And so that first time I went, I did six months, and I just left the country and came back, I like to move very slowly. I like to stay at least three months in countries and them in specific locations; I don’t like to move very quickly. So I like to do like two weeks to a month. So Atlanta, Bangkok, I’ll do like three weeks in Bangkok, you know, and then I’ll make my way to Chiang Mai. And I did like three months in Chiang Mai. And then I like went across the border to Myanmar, and I did the full length of my visa there, which is like 28 days, while you’re simultaneously trying to build a business, it’s very hard to be moving rapidly. So that’s why it’s stationary is way better. I kind of have this thing where it’s like two weeks in one location, minimum, three months, maximum. And then I like to move on.
David McNeill: And when you say move on, it’s moved to a new place, but potentially come back to that spot. Or it’s sort of like I checked, you know, Thailand or a certain you know, Chiang Mai off the list. And now I’m on to new horizons for the rest of my travels. How do you think about going back to places?
Chapin Kreuter: I go back if I like them. But yeah, I usually try to move on and not go back with the network of people that reside in Thailand for like that three month time period where it’s like all the digital nomads around the world kind of flocked to Chiang Mai for like, October, November, December. It’s a place that you just kind of get drawn back to even though you don’t really want to go back there or I don’t really need to go back there. Nothing wrong with Chiang Mai, it’s a great place. But you know, it’s in the mountains. I prefer the ocean. But I do find myself going back there and just enjoying it for what it is.
Normally, I do like to go to someplace new and see something new. So I did like Myanmar, Vietnam, and really just had a blast this last time I was there. And then as far as like future travels, I’m always going to probably stick to like, you know, third world, more affordable countries. Like even though I’d love to go to Japan, I was having conversations last week, and like if I could fly anywhere right now, I would go to Japan. It’s such an expensive country. And maybe I’m completely wrong. Like maybe I could do it on the budget that I like to travel on. I don’t know, I always hear things about it that make it sound really expensive.
David McNeill: Yeah, I might just short two cents on that, I guess is that I think the idea of Japan being super expensive is still slightly a relic from the 80s when it was like going crazy. And obviously, that bubble has burst and never really came back. But I will say that for travelers, I think one of the biggest expenses outside of just even taking trains around to different cities, which, you know, a lot of people like to do that. But it can be quite costly in Japan, you can get a rail pass, there’ll be a bit cheaper, but the biggest expense will be indeed a hotel or whatever type of accommodation you try to find unless it’s couch surfing, you know, which I’m not sure how good that would be available, that would be in Japan. But that type of situation might work. But indeed, whenever I go back, I’m always amazed at how much the hotels are and the rent wasn’t cheap either. But at the same time, of course, in a night by night basis, paying for the hotels is going to end up costing a lot more. So I would love to say that you should definitely go and visit Japan. I hope you’ll make it there’s some time but you’ll have to do the budget math and see if it makes sense.
Chapin Kreuter: Yeah, I plan to. I will make it work somehow. Just have to save a little bit extra.
David McNeill: Yeah. So you mentioned a couple places that you like to go to or that you end up finding yourself drawn back to such as Chiang Mai, which is up in the mountains. And I’ve been there as well. Great place but I was curious, given that you have such a drive and a love for surfing, how much does finding good waves have an impact and where you find yourself in terms of you know, staying for at least two weeks, if not three months?
Chapin Kreuter: Very little to be honest. I mean, I spent so many years in Nicaragua surfing my brains out that it’s even though my lifestyle is surfing; surfing base like I can easily put it down for months, even years and not miss it too much. But yes, like I do think about when I’m in Southeast Asia like I want to take a jaunt over to Indo and get waves. That’s always in the back of my mind. I mean, Japan has waves. There’s so many waves around the world.
And one thing I did that was kind of cool is prior to I’d been in Chiang Mai for three months, I was missing the ocean. I knew I was going to Myanmar. So I started Google everything on the coast of Myanmar looking for waves, which is one way that surfers try to find ways around the world. And I found one, I thought I found one.
So that was my goal was to get to this wave that I thought I found and it took me 28 days to get there because Myanmar, even though it’s open, it’s still like there’s areas that are closed and like trying to navigate certain places like you’re just trying to get information as you’re moving along and not that many people are there. Not many people have been up to where I was trying to get to. And I only met one guy who is this French guy whose like, Yeah, I just came from there. It’s totally cool where everyone else said like, “oh, no, you can’t get there, it’s closed.”
And so it was just this incredible adventure of trying to find a wave. And I got up there, I borrowed this guy’s bike, because there wasn’t any way for me to like rent a bicycle or motor scooter or anything like that, because the places that just didn’t have that kind of infrastructure for tourists. So I’ve rented this guy’s bike for three bucks for the day, and I rode 20 kilometers up this beach, trying to find this wave that I’d seen from like Google Earth. And along the way, I was like, so enthusiastic about this adventure, it’s so exciting. And there was waves along the whole stretch of the beach that I was running off of, like, I did it, this is incredible. It’s going to be a wave, like at this one location that I had found on Google Earth. And when I got there, nothing, but I had found so many new cool little beach breaks along the way, it was so worth it. And it really just made the adventure so worthwhile. Surfing definitely plays a role, but not as much as you would think, based on, you know, how much I do surf and love surfing.
David McNeill: Great. Yeah, that makes sense. And I think it’s good, at least in my experience. So I’ve done more on the scuba diving side of things so far, and I’m getting into surfing a little bit, but I’m at the very, very early stages, and will see how it develops. But for me, it was always interesting to, of course, I call it like the land trip and just do stuff that has nothing to do with scuba diving, but then sometimes do just a diving trip. And sometimes if I find the right country to be able to do a little bit of each, and I think that’s a nice balance as well. So your to see lists, you know, depends on what you actually want to do or what you want to see while you’re there, what the purpose of the trip is, but it’s nice when you can maybe take like you said, take a quick trip away or, you know, jump on a cheap flight to go somewhere else nearby to be able to get that part of your life sort of satisfied as well in the midst of your travels, right?
Chapin Kreuter: Yeah, David, like I can really relate to something you said to me earlier, which is like you’re more the person who likes to observe. I am as well like I love sitting on the side of the road someplace in a new country, literally just on like a stoop with a beer and just watching the culture go by. Like that’s one of my favorite pastimes that I could do anywhere in the world and just feel so fulfilled by that. So yeah, like as much as I love surfing like, again, sitting on the side of the road, in Bangkok’s equally as fulfilling.
David McNeill: Yeah, I know the feeling. And definitely, I think taking the as an example of Bangkok is a good one because you definitely pick up a lot of culture just sitting on the side of the road with a beer. So I totally 100% feel you on that one. And I was actually curious to ask you a bit about your podcast. So you have a podcast called Misfits and Rejects — does that have…? I mean, I’d love to know more about the origin of it. But to me, it seems to connect with this idea of we both like to be a bit more observant, see what’s going on in the world. And maybe our podcasts mutually, are a way for us to get more auditory than visual, but a way of just taking things in and indeed being a listener of other people’s stories. So I’d love to hear more about your experience with building and starting and really developing that podcast over the last few years.
Chapin Kreuter: Yeah, I never had the intention of starting a podcast, Misfits and Rejects was a conversation I used to have with my business partner Jack in Nicaragua. And the term misfits came up a lot just with the characters that we constantly were encountering and meeting coming through our camp. And then as things progressed, rejects started coming into the conversation as well. And a lot of people interpreted it in different ways. And I like that, I like it doesn’t mean that you know, these people are rejects in any way, like misfits and rejects is a very, I use the term very affectionately, it’s meant to be inspirational. I feel like, I don’t fit in, I feel misunderstood at times. And so misfits and rejects, ultimately, is me, my persona, my personality. And that conversation continued on for many years.
And just like all these misfits around us, like some of these people, like who legitimately actually were rejected by the countries in which they came from, for various reasons, whether they’re running from the law, trying to avoid child support, trying to avoid tax implications like you really met some characters, and I just found them to be beautiful. I mean, everyone that I encounter usually is like highly intelligent, they might have their eccentricities, which I find extremely beautiful to get to know more about, and classically thinking that maybe I’ll write a book about it, you know, maybe I’ll write a screenplay like you hear everybody ever always talking about on their travels. And so the idea was just in the back of my mind, and that the verbiage was always there, and I love just using the term talking to people about people. And it wasn’t until I actually listened to Pat Flynn for like a year when I was starting to develop surf progression techniques was my first you know, online entrepreneurship endeavor, that I realized, well, why don’t I just throw a web page, an extra page on my website, and I can start a podcast and I can actually just put the microphone in front of these people whose stories I’d love to share with the world because I think they’re beautiful.
I think they are inspirational, I think this culture is so underrepresented, and under accomplishments and what they’re doing around the world that like, I’m going to be that person who is going to show the world how amazing these people are. So I flew down to Chile and put the microphone between me and a good friend who was actually a boat captain of mine in Nicaragua for a period of time. He’s an Irish dude, and episode one was born in January 2016. Yeah, just kind of been going ever since. Like, it’s a labor of love, takes me like 7–10 hours a week to produce one episode, as you know, and I don’t make a dime off it. But it doesn’t matter because, you know, we had a conversation, pre-show for my podcast.
And just hearing his story fills me with hope, inspiration, and drive to like, keep doing it and the desire to show the world like how beautiful you are, David, like, I’d love to have Misfits and Rejects evolve into possibly like a YouTube channel, that I could bring a visual aesthetic to, which I’ve been trying to do for the last year. It’s costly and difficult with the circumstances of COVID. Like consider turning it…taking, like all my past content, because I have over 200 episodes, consolidating it and turning it into like a little animated series, putting it on YouTube, that’s extremely costly and time-consuming as well. So I really haven’t found my footing yet with how this is going to evolve. But I mean, I’m not going to quit. And I love you and everybody else I interview, and I think you guys are beautiful and inspirational. So I’m just going to keep going with it.
David McNeill: That’s awesome. I love it. And I’m glad to been able to have the opportunity to be a part of it. I feel the same way about how I started Expat Empire Podcast, this one, which was really just knowing some people having built this community of experts and good friends from around the world, and loving their stories. And always, you know, hearing those and being curious about how they got to where they are now, and what hurdles that they had to overcome. And yeah, just giving them the floor, giving them the microphone to be able to talk about their experiences. So that’s also what drives me to be able to share that with the world. And I’m glad that you are coming from the same place and that we can, you know, sort of work together to try to get some interesting stories out there to more people and hopefully inspire more people as well.
Chapin Kreuter: Yeah, no, that’s the motivation, for sure. And inspiration is one of those things that you think is abundant, which it is, in some ways, but the stories don’t always connect directly with the person who’s hearing it, you know. So that’s why I love the colorful characters that I bring on because everyone’s got a story. And everyone’s got one thing they could say that might inspire somebody. And that’s always my hope. If I can inspire one person, then I’m a happy camper.
David McNeill: Yeah, definitely. And I think one thing that inspires me about your story, and probably many of our listeners as well is the fact that you were able to take your love of surfing and bring that not just first to a life abroad in terms of being primarily in Nicaragua for all of those years. But now bringing it into the digital world, becoming a digital nomad, and having great times in all different locations around the world, and potentially Mexico coming up here soon. So how did you really think through turning that surfing passion into this digital nomad career? Because I know a lot of the passive income opportunities, digital nomad situations tend to be, for example, drop-shipping or blogging, there’s sort of a handful of different things that people typically do. And what I see in your story is something different, and something that’s more aligned with your passions. And so I’d love to just hear how you kind of thought through that in terms of your options for this passive income. And also, if you have any advice for other people trying to take their passions and turning it into a business as well.
Chapin Kreuter: Yeah, it’s a great question. You know, I think I took the approach, as a lot of entrepreneurs talk about is like, ready, shoot, aim. I knew I had to take that first step. I knew that I wouldn’t stay interested in the online entrepreneurship game if I chose drop-shipping, which is an actual thing that you could make money with. I mean, the reason that everyone’s in drop-shipping, and all these other things is because it actually makes money I was operating from like, if you build it, they will come kind of mentality, which doesn’t really work. It’s rare. If it does work, you’re a unicorn. You’re very lucky. And trying to do the whole, like, take your passion, make it a career very dangerous as well, like I’m living proof after six years, like, doesn’t really work. It’s not that easy. Like I say, it doesn’t work. It’s something that like you’re implying how did I calculate the moves that I made? Well, I didn’t, I followed my passion. I followed my gut. I just did what I wanted. I started producing content that I wanted, that I thought people would get inspired by, and to be completely honest and transparent like, nobody really cares about what I do.
You know, like I found out this year that you know, my analytics were completely wrong on Squarespace, which is where I host my podcast. I thought I had like 20,000 downloads per month. That was what my analytics was telling me. Well, that’s just not the case. Like I have 100 devoted followers who love me and I love the podcast but like, that was a huge shock and a huge blow to the ego because I’ve been doing this for so long. And to find out that, you know, people aren’t sharing it, you know, it’s like, maybe it’s my marketing, maybe it’s the content, like, I don’t know, I’m still kind of wrapping my head around this whole thing, the whole surf thing didn’t really work out the way I wanted it either. So like advice that I have for people would be first do it, like take that step-like, don’t make excuses. If you want something, go out and get it, you can be more calculated than I.
There’s so many great people out there. Like I’ve mentioned, Pat Flynn, who only helps like people who are just getting started really flush out the idea that’s actually going to make money and going to give them that lifestyle that they want rather than like what I did, which, I mean, I did Pat Flynn’s checklist when I first came up with the idea for surf progression techniques, and like, didn’t meet any of them like I didn’t meet the standards of even moving forward with this. But like I said, like, for me, I didn’t have a choice because a computer doesn’t interest me to be honest, like, entrepreneurship doesn’t interest me. Like the challenge interests me, and I love the idea of being able to make money from my computer. Those are the two driving factors that keep me doing this daily weekend week out. So as I’m transitioning, as I’m pivoting, and moving towards still the goal and the dream of becoming an online entrepreneur, digital nomad who can make money from his computer.
I’m now kind of going back to square one, picking Pat Flynn’s book up back up, like will it fly, going through those steps again, and like really trying to flesh out an idea that is going to make me money, because I’m 41 years old dude. And I’m broke, you know. And that’s fine. I’ve designed my life that way. Like, that doesn’t bother me.
But what does bother me is that there are people I love in my life who need financial support from me and are going to as they age, and I can’t provide that for them. So that’s another huge driving factor for me is trying to figure out a way that I don’t have to compromise, my love of travel, my love of being an expatriate for 9–5 back in Southern California where I don’t feel like I fit in. I feel like I have a belief in myself that I can figure it out. But I kind of have to start playing by certain rules that I totally ignored when I first started walking down this path.
David McNeill: I think the great point that you made definitely starting out, as you described, that was just telling people to indeed get started and take those first steps. And that’s certainly what I did. Obviously, what you did, and what most people just have to do is to get started, you don’t want to have the analysis paralysis of overthinking things. But I suppose as you say, there is a balance to be made between just going for what sounds good in your head. And indeed, what maybe makes the most business sense. And there needs to be some sort of balance there. I’m still figuring that out myself. So now that you’re kind of looking back on things, how would you have done it differently? I mean, obviously, as you said, that was the area that you knew best. It was the thing that you were most passionate about. Maybe it didn’t meet those checklist requirements, but you still went after it. And I mean, it’s obviously been, you know, good times and tough times as well. But would you have changed anything? Or do you think that you needed that experience to now be able to go back to the table and look at new options with a different mindset as well?
Chapin Kreuter: I needed that experience. I’m a slow learner. And I needed that to really, I think, put the foundation down that solid concrete foundation that I can now build off of to move forward. You know, it’s like I couldn’t be where I am today if I had chosen a different path. I know that like I would have just gotten disillusioned, disheartened, unmotivated if I was trying to be a dropshipper. I don’t care about dropshipping, you know, I have to have like some sort of reason for doing what I’m doing. And usually, that’s in like a helpful way. Like I like helping surfers progress faster than if they were trying to figure it out on their own.
So now I’m going to try to like you said, try to find that balance of well, what actually is going to make money? I’m going to test the market and utilize you know, maybe surveys or something like Facebook ads and try to really hone in on something that has a demand that’s greater than, you know, the 10 surfers that follow me on YouTube, which is not following, but it’s just too small of a group of people. There’s no money in it. You know, surfers are cheap, they want to travel the world and surf a lot as many ways as possible, rather than you know, spending tons of money on me. So yeah, just trying to find that niche that is going to tick all the box or, you know, more boxes than not have me feeling fulfilled by it, but also making money.
David McNeill: Yeah, in a very simplistic sense. I look at two types of entrepreneurs. There’s the type that can look at any opportunity, see the money and that motivates them. And then there’s the type that really needs to be passionate and driven. And you know, find some connection with the type of business that they’re going after. So like you said about dropshipping, I feel similarly. And obviously, we’re both as of yet going after our passions with our businesses more than necessarily just launching the next cryptocurrency or seeing this item that you could sell on Amazon. I mean, who knows what the future holds. And best of luck, and congrats to all of the folks that have made it work in those areas. But obviously a simplistic example, but that’s kind of how I see it. And it’s important, I think, for people to recognize it first, which may be of those two types, if there are only two that they are because, indeed, whatever you choose to do, it’s going to be a lot of work. And so you need to make sure that you’re in it for the long haul. So I think it’s great that you have put in all of this time and effort to try to indeed see if it can work. And of course, anytime it can be a great opportunity for you to switch paths and pivot to something new.
Chapin Kreuter: Yeah. And like you said, I mean, there’s a book actually, and I haven’t read the whole thing yet. But he kind of describes three different types of entrepreneurs. His last name is Levesque; I think it’s called Choose. And I realized, like, I’m not that first type of entrepreneur, where it just the money is the goal. And I can do whatever, just because I’m so motivated by the money. Definitely, more passion-based. But then there’s a third, which is like the lifestyle as well. People can like myself start an online enterprise because they want the lifestyle, and that’s motivating enough. And that’s kind of where I fall into like, I’m motivated by the lifestyle and trying to really make that lifestyle real.
David McNeill: Yeah. And as you look into the next years, obviously, maybe you’re kind of looking at the business thinking about new options, also looking at Mexico as well. So what are your thoughts about maybe where you’re headed over the next few years? And just your thinking, as far as Mexico is concerned where you’re maybe looking at potentially trying to settle down there, or is even settling down. I don’t know what to call it these days. Maybe it’s just a short time, and then you go back, and you’re still on the road quite a lot when things open up more, but we’d love to hear your thoughts on what’s next for you.
Chapin Kreuter: In the coming years, I’m still going to be doing Misfits and Rejects. That’s where my focus is, right now. I’d really like to grow that and build that into something powerful in the sense of like, instilling motivation, inspiration in individuals, who hear it, see it, I don’t have any great ideas on my next business venture that like a product that I’m going to create a service I’m going to create, still kind of mulling over some things that I like the idea, but it’s again, I like it. I don’t know if there’s really a demand for it.
Mexico is a great place because I love the food, I love the culture. There’s tons of waves, and there’s tons of digital nomads like Playa Del Carmen is a huge digital nomad hub that I have a lot of friends in right now currently, even though there’s no waves, it’s still probably a place I want to stop by and say, “what’s up”, to everybody. Thought about maybe hanging out in Mexico City for like two to three months, because I like the city vibe. I have friends on the West Coast, North of Puerto Vallarta. And then there’s a small little town that a surf photographer friend of mine recommended that I’d like to kind of maybe just go disappear for a while and really work on my Spanish, surf and develop whatever I’m developing online. So I can see if I can pull it off. I’d like to spend next year in Mexico for the full year, that’d be the goal. And then after that, I don’t know.
David McNeill: Sounds amazing. Yeah, I guess that’s the beauty of it is that you don’t have to know. And you can obviously have all of those different experiences. And if you can do that on your limited budget and make it work with all the cool stuff that you’ve got going on and figuring out what’s next kind of regrouping. And yeah, as you said, testing some new business ideas. I think that sounds fantastic. And honestly, I’m over here thinking I mean, I love Portugal, but there’s so much I’d love to see in Mexico, and I’ve never been to Mexico City. And obviously a lot of those places, I’m sure not only have great waves and great beaches but lots of awesome opportunities and the network you’ve built there, I’m sure it’s going to come in handy. So I’m envious, I’d love to see what’s up with your travels and keep in touch with you. So how can our listeners find out more about you and what you’re doing and just keep track of all of your great adventures around the world?
Chapin Kreuter: Yeah, just check out my podcast Misfits and Rejects on any podcast player, Spotify, Apple. I have a website misfitsandrejects.com. If you are a surfer, and you want some help, progressing, happy to help you. You can go to surfprogressiontechniques.com. Check me out there and on Instagram on misfitsandrejects so I’m always happy to connect with anybody. You can DM me, you can email me through any one of those websites, and love to start a conversation about whatever’s on your mind.
David McNeill: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time. It’s been an absolute pleasure. I can’t wait to see what’s next for you. And let’s keep in touch and see what happens over the next year.
Chapin Kreuter: Appreciate you, David, you have a good day. Ciao.
Outro
Thanks to Chapin for sharing his story with us. You can find the full transcript for this episode at expatempire.com.
Music on this episode was produced by Eli Hermit, please check him out on Bandcamp and Spotify.
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Thanks for listening, happy holidays, and stay tuned for more episodes in 2021!
Originally published at https://expatempire.com on December 20, 2020.
