Finding Your Success in an Industry Set Up For Failure with Karen Preene of Deadlifts and Redlips
Today I chat with Karen Preene (@deadlifts_and_redlips), BSc (Hons) in Exercise and Health, qualified Personal Trainer, Health and Fitness Coach, non-diet, weight inclusive, Health at Every Size (HAES) fitness provider from the UK.
In this piece we talk about mental health, white supremacy in the fitness space, and how to provide alternatives to 12WBT’s after your lightbulb moment upon realising “Oh crap! Diets don’t work.”
Sasha: What was your relationship with movement growing up?
Karen: Growing up my relationship with movement was based around fun and play. We would be outside a lot. Most of our games with friends included movement of some form; running, dancing, bikes, roller skates, gutterball, tennis. The list is endless really. It was always about fun, joy, and connection. It was never about “energy expenditure”. Some of my really precious childhood memories are swimming with my Dad and long walks with both my Nans. Plus, growing up, my Mom didn’t drive and we would choose to walk more often than catch a bus.
Sasha: How did these experiences of “fun” and “play” help foster your relationships with your dad, nans, and mom? How did it make you feel?
Karen: I felt safe and valued. I remember feeling quite capable of trying new (sometimes) scary things. I have a really distinct memory of being scared to climb up and over a climbing frame, but with my Nans gentle coaxing and reassurance, I did it! The walks always provided time to talk too. I’ve got fond memories of all that time spent together. Both of my Nans and my Mom have passed away, so that time together feels even more precious.
Sasha: It sounds like you had a lot of formative character building moments through movement. And, lots of relationship strengthening moments too, which would have fostered feelings of community and closeness with your family. When did diet culture first intervene?
Karen: Diet culture definitely first intervened in my early teens. Although, I had internalised fatphobia earlier than that. Growing up, my sister and brother were always larger than me. Their food choices were usually policed by my family. Whereas, I was smaller than them, so no one ever questioned mine. As a teen, I quickly realised that the popular girls were thin and attractive. I’d never felt attractive but I had a thin body and so that became my entry into acceptability. I may not have had “the face” but I made sure I had “the body”. Writing and reading that back to myself — it actually makes me feel so sad to type out. I remember skipping lunch at school because that was easier to get away with than trying to skip meals at home. I became used to the hungry, empty feeling in my belly. I equated my hunger and emptiness to thinness. This feeling stayed around for the following decades. If I felt hungry, I knew I was in a calorie deficit and therefore working towards thinness.
“I became used to the hungry, empty feeling in my belly. I equated my hunger and emptiness to thinness.”
Sasha: What did the feeling of “thinness” being “hungry and empty” do to your sense of self worth and personal development during this time?
Karen: This is a hard one to put into words because I’m not sure if I’ve explored this before. However, I can tell you that I definitely had a superiority complex that existed alongside an extremely low self-esteem. I believed I was ‘better’ because I was thinner and yet I had zero confidence or self-belief. Those feelings also kept me distracted. I was constantly chasing thinness. I was preoccupied with everything that was involved in maintaining thinness. That often made me a shitty friend and a shitty sibling to my brother and sister.
Sasha: Your ability to reflect on that and share is really refreshing to read. I think the experience can be really nuanced. Through having thinness, we are told we are amazing and that feels great. We feel important or better. And, it looks like we should feel good on the inside too. But, as this validation from being thin is external, we worry and lack personal confidence. So, our internal validation skills still need work. (In tangent to mass cultural change around what it means to be thin.)
How did you get into the fitness industry?
Karen: I got into the fitness industry when I ended an abusive relationship. I immersed myself in fitness and (even more) dieting. Unfortunately, I discovered Jillian Michaels around the same time I left this relationship and she became my ‘fitspiration’. I had been into exercise of some kind for most of my adult life and my abusive ex always told me that I’d “never amount to anything”. With those two factors, entering the fitness industry helped me feel like I was standing up to him. Also, at the time, I was one of those exhausting thin people who believed “if I could do it, then everyone else could”. I identify this “if I can / you can too” approach now as my white saviour complex of wanting to ‘save’ fat people.
Sasha: It sounds like the Jillian Michaels approach would have been a really helpful coping mechanism for you during a really difficult life stage. How do you feel these approaches in the industry disproportionately target people in moments of vulnerability? For me, reading your words, reminds me a lot of the concept of the “revenge body” or revenge success in general.
Karen: Yes! I believe at the time, it was a coping mechanism but now I also realise that it kept me from healing. I was trying to patch up all of my broken pieces by ‘fixing’ the outside because that’s all I’d ever known. And when I think about it in that way, I can absolutely see how the fitness industry often targets people in positions of vulnerability. I think the industry definitely taps into these vulnerabilities with their language and marketing.
“I can absolutely see how the fitness industry often targets people in positions of vulnerability.”
Sasha: What did your experience in the fitness industry look like?
Karen: In the beginning it was fantastic! I fit the bill. I was thin. I was fit. I had the #noexcuses mentality of most fitness trainers of that era. And, I really did enjoy delivering fitness to people. I don’t have the experience of working in a commercial gym. My fitness classes were delivered in the park or at the kickboxing gym where I trained. With my thinness, fitness, and old approach, I imagine that I would have been accepted with the gym setting at that time. However, as my fight with depression became more prominent and the stress of being a single parent took its toll, I began to miss training sessions at kickboxing. Despite training 5–6 times per week on top of covering classes for almost 2 years, I was labelled as a ‘slacker’ for letting the team down. This was the beginning of my realisation of how toxic the ‘health and fitness’ industry could be. Then, when I took on my first PT clients, I quickly realised that I could not conform to the fitness industry in its current form. It was at this point that I decided to further my studies and began a full-time degree in Exercise and Health.
Sasha: That is such a relatable story into the fitness industry. I think a lot of fitpros, especially the white / thin / fit / no excuses ones thrive in their environments. But eventually, the unsustainable nature of it comes out for all of us. You came to this, I’m going to call it the “Jillian Michaels” approach, from a place of needing to feel powerful after a painful relationship. But, as you found your power and independence, it sounds like you started to see the cracks in the system a little bit too. I’m interested to hear your thoughts on the role of mental health in fitness. Lots of people pursue fitness goals “for their health” and yet, following the fitness script of lots of exercise and dieting skips a really important part of well being: your mental health. What are your thoughts and experiences with that?
Karen: I would say it’s a follow on from what I mentioned earlier; its like skimming over the cracks. We don’t deal with the deeper issues. I think fitness certainly has a role in mental health, but as a tool for managing symptoms rather than a ‘cure’ like some fitpros would have you believe. If I’m honest, I feel quite duped by diet culture. I thought fitness and thinness were tools of empowerment, but the opposite is true. Equating thinness and fitness to worth dis-empowers us. We reduce ourselves to body parts and how many calories we burn. In the end, this can begin to have a detrimental effect on our mental health. So the thing we thought was helping us be better people, is actually the thing that is keeping us from living our best lives.
“If I’m honest, I feel quite duped by diet culture. I thought fitness and thinness were tools of empowerment, but the opposite is true. Equating thinness and fitness to worth dis-empowers us. We reduce ourselves to body parts and how many calories we burn.”
Sasha: What was your HAES epiphany like?
Karen: My HAES epiphany actually came about from an online challenge I participated in. It was Me And White Supremacy hosted by Layla Saad. It was created for users to address our internalised racism and white privilege. The challenge was truly transformative. By the end, I realised that white supremacy and racism was at the root of most ‘-isms’. During this challenge, we learnt a lot about white feminism. Especially how white women inserted themselves into spaces that weren’t necessarily created for them. I had begun to learn a little bit more about Body Positivity, but suddenly, through this challenge, I realised that I was one of those women who had co-opted Body Positivity to feel ‘part’ of a movement. I wanted to further my understanding. I began following fat activists so that I could learn more and that’s when I discovered HAES. I already felt like the challenge I did had bought me back to humanity, so reading about HAES felt like a light bulb moment!
I was also doing research for my work at University. Both my second year literature review and third year final project were about exploring the effectiveness of long-term maintenance of weight loss. It became apparent pretty quickly that long-term weight loss maintenance was unsignificantly successful when compared to control groups. Meaning, for the vast majority, the results of the efforts towards intentional weight loss do not stick long-term. Reading the data made me feel like we had been sold a big lie all along when it came to dieting! It made me angry and also determined to take on another approach to delivering fitness. It was almost like everything that I had been learning in regards to social justice, fat activism, and the evidence of weight loss, was all aligning. It made me realise that there was still a place in the fitness industry for me after all.
“Reading the data made me feel like we had been sold a big lie all along when it came to dieting! It made me angry and also determined to take on another approach to delivering fitness.”
Sasha: That is such a great story, how all the work you were doing to learn about fat politics, weight science, and culture were lining up for you. I think studying HAES for fitness is such a multifaceted discipline as the issues around it intersect and relate to each other. The social justice piece, I feel, really ties the whole thing together. Because what marginalised voices are saying about how things are, and how we live in a world where it’s normal/compulsory to explore futile weight loss efforts come from something more insidious that just personal aesthetic preferences. It ultimately comes from a place of historical and widespread cultural white supremacy. And, understanding that, helps you understand why so much diet science and ob* studies has unaddressed intrinsic bias. What are some of the biggest lessons your learnt in relation to this?
Karen: That the beauty ‘ideal’ is steeped in racism. A Eurocentric standard that the majority of the population will never meet. The ‘ideal’ body showcased is often un-achievable without some level of disorder and it leaves people often NEVER seeing themselves represented within mainstream media and fashion. Through reading the research, it’s obvious that studies rarely control for the effects of racism, oppression, or weight stigma and how these issues can affect health/weight. I think the biggest realisation is how dehumanising diet culture and weight science is. Unpacking all of this has led me to community. To developing deeper relationships with people.
Sasha: When it comes to your work, what is most important to you?
Karen: I’m a single parent living with a mental illness and on benefits. My Mom was a single parent and received benefits too. I know how it feels to struggle financially, mentally, and emotionally. Exercise has always been a way for me to focus on something outside of the identity of motherhood. Even though it was laced with disordered behaviour, I believe that strength training, especially the powerlifting, helped me to develop self-confidence as I discovered a strength that I never believed I was capable of. When I first set out, a 100kg squat felt like an impossible goal and I ended up squatting that as part of a warm up. I’d never realised that every day women (outside of athletics) could be that strong. So, it’s always been important to me to help women discover their strengths under the barbell, but also, to be accessible to those who may not be able to access that strength due to finances. Now, with the added layer of HAES in my practise, it’s about showing women that dieting, shrinking, and trying to prove our worth through our bodies is not a requirement for getting strong. I believe that HAES is a way back to being IN our bodies.
Sasha: What does it mean to be back IN your body? And, why is it important?
Karen: For me, being IN my body means that I’m guided by my intuition rather than external pressures. For instance, I used to exercise ultimately to burn calories. Now, I exercise because I feel good during and after. I don’t care about the amount of calories burnt. I don’t care if my body changes (bigger or smaller), or stays the same because of exercise. I feel like I have a deeper respect for my body and a deeper understanding. I feel connected to all parts of myself, mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually. It feels like all the dots have been connected. And I believe I will feel like that no matter what my body may look like. I think that’s why it’s important to be back in your body. It’s like stepping into your body for the first time and realising that’s exactly where you belong.
Sasha: What is your fitness work at the moment?
Karen: Now that my degree is completed, I have plans to set up a Personal Training business with online coaching. I’m going to be starting from scratch, as a single parent on benefits, with no money to invest, and I plan on sharing my journey with this. I want other single moms to know that it’s possible to carve a career out for yourself.
Sasha: What is important to you in marrying your fitness work with a HAES framework?
Karen: I suppose like the name of your blog “Fit At Every Size”, that fitness should be accessible to people at every size, if that’s something they want. I think it’s important to have coaches and trainers who operate outside of the confines of diet culture.
Sasha: I am personally interested in bringing the HAES framework to the fitness industry. It is important to me to share stories and have the conversations around workplace realities and how you professionally thrive as a fitpro that does not sell intentional weight loss in an environment where, that’s what everyone is trying to buy.
So, imagine a prospect comes to you for weight loss. How do you handle this moment?
Karen: I believe in the body autonomy of all prospect clients. First and foremost, I would be honest with the client that I don’t tailor my programmes to focus on weight loss. Then, if they still wanted to learn more, I would ask them their ‘why’ when it comes to weight loss. I would also advise them of the potential adverse effects of intentional weight loss. I believe true body autonomy comes from clients having ALL of the information in order for them to make an informed decision. I would also consider referring the client on if I felt that I couldn’t accommodate their goals.
Sasha: Why do you think not selling intentional weight loss is going to help fitpros thrive?
Karen: I think people deserve an alternative. People are waking up to the con of diet culture and they want a trainer who can help them accommodate that, not try to push them into yet another 12 week transformation.
Sasha: I really enjoy that response. I feel like — everybody else is selling weight loss. They can find it in any famine state and disordered behaviours and buy a coach to help them override their biological cues. What HAES fitpros are providing is fitness without the diet culture. Having a ‘point of difference’ is key to any business that wants to thrive.
What is your key message to your fitness consumers?
Karen: I can only speak in theoretical terms right now but I plan to offer a non-diet, weight-inclusive approach to fitness. I intend to put clients in the driving seat. To empower them to decide what fitness means to them outside of the pursuit of weight loss or aesthetics. To encourage joyful movement. To help them build on what intuitively feels good.
“It’s like stepping into your body for the first time and realising that’s exactly where you belong.”
Sasha: What is your key message to other fitness providers?
Karen: To fitpros who fall in the traditional fitspo categories: Your clients know more than you give them credit for! They are not lazy. It’s not that they don’t want it hard enough — it’s that you’re selling them something that’s got a pretty shitty long term success rate. And, there is an alternative approach in a HAES framework.
Sasha: I think that is a wonderful message to end on. Especially for fitpros who have been working for 5 years or more, because they would see it in their own work. They’d have clients come to them for weight loss again and again because they keep yo-yoing and weight cycling. Or, they’d lose touch with, what could have been a lifelong, client because that client is too ashamed that they regained the weight to face you again. You see, first hand, the short-term high but the life-long failure that is the pursuit of intentional weight loss. Sure, you can build a business structure that sees you take client X for 12 weeks before summer every year. Or, you can build one that takes client X for 12 months all year round because they find so much joy in movement and accepting themselves as they are right now.
Where can people find you online?
I am @Deadlifts_and_Redlips on instagram and on all platforms.
My online coaching is coming soon so keep an eye on my IG for announcements.
