Dr. Amy Cooper Hakim is a renowned industrial-organizational psychology practitioner, author, and public speaker, with extensive experience in helping organizations improve employee engagement and productivity. Her expertise in workplace dynamics and conflict resolution makes her an invaluable resource for anyone looking to enhance their work experience and find fulfillment in their career. Through her consulting work, writing, and speaking engagements, Dr. Hakim has established herself as a leading expert on the topic of life satisfaction, happiness, and fulfillment in the workplace. Her practical advice and effective strategies have helped countless individuals and organizations build more positive and productive work environments. In this interview, Dr. Hakim discusses the importance of socialization and strengthening of relationships to lead a fulfilling life.

Victoria Romero

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FIU Lee Caplin School of Journalism & Media’s Interactive Visualization Course

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10 min read

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Feb 15, 2023

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Transcript:

[INTERVIEWER] VICTORIA ROMERO:

With over 20 years of experience in her field, Dr. Amy Cooper Hakim is a well-known industrial and organizational psychology practitioner, author, and public speaker who specializes in workplace dynamics and conflict resolution. Today Dr. Hakim will be discussing workplace fulfillment and fulfillment and life satisfaction overall.

[INTERVIEWER] VICTORIA ROMERO:

In your own words, describe what happiness means to you.

[EXPERT GUEST] AMY COOPER HAKIM:

So, it’s hard because I know the definition of happiness. But when I think of happiness, I think of an emotional state, where we have certain feelings of fulfillment or contentment, or joy or satisfaction. I believe that we choose to be happy. And we choose to find the good in things even in tough situations.

[INTERVIEWER] VICTORIA ROMERO:

Has there ever been a time in your life that others have shared? those positive or negative emotions of theirs with you? I know you just said that you can choose to be happy. But do you think there’s ever a time that like, that can kind of cloud at least in a certain moment, how we look at our own life?

[EXPERT GUEST] AMY COOPER HAKIM:

Yeah, I think that we have times that are positive and times that are not in life. And so the way that we choose to look at that situation can affect the way that we end up responding to that particular situation or reacting.

So something really negative, my dad passed away a number of years ago, but six years ago, now, I have three young children. And I remember feeling particularly sad, obviously, I didn’t want my dad to pass away so that he could stick around with me here for a long time. So there were negative feelings, negative emotions, negative things like acts, and things that were happening in life. However, I was happy and pleasantly surprised that I was able to find the positive, even in that negative situation. And I turned to gratitude, which is why at the start when you’re asking me if there’s a correlation between happiness and life satisfaction, I was able to frame what was happening that wasn’t positive, in a positive way, or an approach and that I was able to say, to myself, and that my husband and I were both, you know, able to know that he might, my dad was at least a part of our children’s lives, that he had a chance to say goodbye to the people who mattered to him that he had a chance to, you know, be successful in the things that were important to him, and that we were able to have a fulfilling relationship where nothing was left, you know, out that I wish I would have said, you know, so I was able to take something that really was sour and sad, and feels, not at peace with it, but more positive about the situation, I went to visit him at one point. I lived in South Florida, and he lives in Maryland. So you know, sometimes we would grow up as a family. And other times, it was just me alone. But I went to visit him many times while he was ill for a year and a half or so. And at one point, I, I came in, I just saw so many people coming in and out of our family home to visit him, you know, to spend time with Him and to let him know how important he was to them. And what a difference in their lives he had made.

And it was just very touching. I brought cards from my kids and you know, things like that just to share when I would come up. And my then nine-year-old son wrote him this really sweet car. And he said, You know, I hope you feel better soon. Of course, he didn’t understand that my dad was ill and not going to recover. But he said I hope you feel better soon. And I want you to know that I will carry on the traditions that you shared with mom, with my family. We started talking about all these silly things that a nine-year-old would remember right? Like my dad would eat soup. Instead of eating it from the center, you’d always say eat around the world, the outside the perimeter, the rim is right, it’s cooler on the outside. So my son said like, I’ll eat around the world when I eat soup at all. Make sure my kids do that. And so he went through just sweet little things that showed me and my dad that he mattered. And again, of course, we wanted him to be able to be at you know, his great-grandchildren’s births or something like that. But the reality is that this was the these were the cards that were played. They were the cards that were dealt and if you’re able to take them and even if it’s bittersweet, appreciate those moments. Then there’s a way to Feel enter find that community in life. And I think that that is really how we choose to see the world. And that is why happiness is a choice.

[INTERVIEWER] VICTORIA ROMERO:

Oh wow, that’s, that’s definitely life-changing. I mean, I think about the day, my parents sometimes pass away because well, I know it’s something normal that everybody has to go through. So it’s something that I’d like to believe I’m prepared for, but then when the time comes, it’s like, you never thought that it was gonna happen. And it was literally too close to home. So that’s very touching how you were able to transform that into a good feeling.

[EXPERT GUEST] AMY COOPER HAKIM:

Yeah, for sure. I think Positivity breeds positivity. So when you’re around positive stuff, you know, when you’re able to see the world through the happiness someone else is expressing, or experiencing, I think that can be really powerful as well.

[INTERVIEWER] VICTORIA ROMERO:

For sure, that is an awesome story. It’s a testimony in and of itself. So then, I do want to get into the World Happiness Report. I found the report says that positive emotions are more than twice as frequent as negative emotions. Would you from seeing in your experience in your expertise, or just even in your own life? Do you agree or disagree with that, with the study?

[EXPERT GUEST] AMY COOPER HAKIM:

Yeah, I do agree, I think that we are wired to be positive. And I think that life circumstances may make us feel a bit different at times, you know, but our interpretation of what we see around us can help us to find or regain happiness during times of struggle, sort of like what I was sharing with you with my dad. You know, I think that I think it is it’s a mindset. And I think that you know, if we allow the positivity surrounding us, it can, it can really make us feel much more fulfilled. And make it happy. You know, I think negativity breeds negativity, but I think Positivity breeds positivity. And so our focus should be there.

[INTERVIEWER] VICTORIA ROMERO:

Yeah. 100% I think that when we often focus on the negative things, it’s like, we’re automatically putting a gray filter on our day. And it’s not how it needs to be, although it is hard in the day-to-day to definitely like, flip that mindset and be like, oh this person may have done something bad, but I’m just gonna brush it off. And like, continue on. Like, it takes a while. But at the end of the day, as you said, it is a decision.

[EXPERT GUEST] AMY COOPER HAKIM:

Yeah. And I think it’s amazing what a good night’s rest can do for our mindsets. Yes, definitely. There is an expression that the rooster crows in the morning. The rooster will crow before the light even comes up right before the sun even rises, the roosters crowing now, do I know this from firsthand experience? No. I’ve never been on a farm. But what I’ve heard is that a rooster crows first thing in the morning, and even before the sun is up, and that’s to remind us that each day is a new beginning. And if the rooster can be happy that something is coming, that we can’t see, then perhaps we can be more positive in our mindset, and recognize that, you know, the new day a new start a new chance to either write some wrongs or, you know, continue on with that positive realm.

[INTERVIEWER] VICTORIA ROMERO:

Definitely, it is crucial to have that clean. Almost similar to the Clean Slate mindset every day.

And so now talking about more fulfillment in the workplace, which is what you teach your class on. I was gonna ask you if you’ve identified any trends in fulfillment in the workplace after the pandemic hit. If so, like, Why do you think this happened specifically?

[EXPERT GUEST] AMY COOPER HAKIM:

Yeah, I mean, I definitely did see some trends that happened closer during the pandemic, I think that some people really appreciated the work to the opportunity to work remotely. They freed up more time, they got the chance to find or work toward a stronger work-life balance. But on the flip end, there was also an increase in loneliness and depression. That’s primarily because people need to socialize in order to feel happy.

[INTERVIEWER] VICTORIA ROMERO:

Yeah, I remember once this just came to mind, but I had a teacher back in my middle school days who had a chinchilla. And actually, I don’t know if you know, but Chinchillas are very social animals. So usually they come in pairs. And what happened was that she kind of left and I don’t know, he was like, by himself, and it was just the little tension in the house because she was traveling. And when she came back as he had actually died because of separation anxiety. So that’s crazy because it’s kind of like her like you said, wired in us is kind of like a survival instinct, to socialize.

[EXPERT GUEST] AMY COOPER HAKIM:

Yeah, I think some people are more introverted versus extroverted. But even introverts really need socialization, I need those special one or two people who make them feel complete, you know, we instead depending on, on our own level of that, I think that that component can be very lonely. For those who are truly by themselves, I happen to enjoy the time in lockdown, because I was able to be with my family and the people who mattered most and still get work done. So I thought that the technology and the ability for us to work even when we’re not able to be physically in front of someone, given the way you and I are having this interview, instead of meeting face to face in a standard way, it works, you know, and so you can still build rapport and make connections. But definitely, that lack of physical being in person did take a toll on some of the negative way and on some in a positive way where they wanted to keep that going even posted on.

[INTERVIEWER] VICTORIA ROMERO:

And then my next question is about the Harvard study of adult development about overlapping performance over our life. And my question was, I don’t know if you researched it, but basically, they said that the healthier your relationships were with the people that you loved, the more fulfilled, they found their participants in the older ages. And so do you think that this same data that they found in that study can apply to the workplace in specific?

[EXPERT GUEST] AMY COOPER HAKIM:

I think that healthy relationships are key to happiness, and overall, well being in general, in the job, they will say, more likely in a position or other job, if, even if that job has lower pay, if we like our boss, and on the opposite end, right, we quit the job that might be on our career path that we can’t stand the people we work with. So positive relationships keep us happiest. And, you know, we need to focus on being around the people and the relationships in our lives that help us to feel connected and engaged and supported and liked or loved. You know, that’s, that’s really important. So that applies at work.

[INTERVIEWER] VICTORIA ROMERO:

what would you say talking about fulfillment in the workplace, what would you say are the top five factors that that kind of determine whether or not somebody, an individual or an employee, or an employer is, fulfilled there? Or satisfied?

[EXPERT GUEST] AMY COOPER HAKIM:

Yeah, so the first thing of organizational culture. So those are the deep-rooted values within the organization. And so you can have a culture of trust, you can have a culture of balance within our culture of teamwork, and organizational climate, which is more of temporal things that change, but having a positive environment or climate is important. Then the third, I would say leadership, so organizational leadership, so having the right leaders is shaped and valued by the individuals who are there. And then I would say, adequate levels of psychological and social support. So making sure that that person feels fulfilled, at that level is really, really important. And that can be through some of what we were just talking about, you know, some of those connections, the relationships, feeling like worker, and we’re not just getting working to work, but working as valued members of the team. Also when people feel like they have opportunities for growth and development, then they feel valued. They want to continue to, you know, produce because they feel like the company, or leaders are invested in them. Again, not just for what they’re producing, but for them as well.