ReCOVery: A Conversation With Pat Casey
Writing by George Wilde / Editing by Sam Ferguson / Photos by Katie Sikora
Pat Casey has been playing bass guitar in the New Orleans live music scene for over a decade. His regular gig at the Spotted Cat, hosted on Sunday nights, is widely recognized as a home for some of the highest-level musicianship in the city. This interview was conducted April 12, 2020.
George Wilde: What are you up to? Did you have an Easter gig?
Pat Casey: I did not have any Easter gigs. I normally today would be playing at church, and obviously it’s a big Sunday, so that didn’t go on. But I’m going to do a livestream later on tonight with my band. What we kind of do is take turns, pass around a song and everybody plays on it or you can just do your own thing or whatever. Trying to keep Sunday nights rolling with Pat Casey and the New Sound, you know.
So how does that work?
Well it’s kind of an interesting format because we can’t really play together in real time. So, what we’ll do is we have the tunes we play on Sunday night and really anything that anybody from the band wants to play we’ll just kind of play a couple choruses of that. Each person will play and pass it on to the next person and that person will either play that same song, and play a couple choruses, or they’ll pick something new. It can really be anything, we’ll just kind of hang out and chat in between. But mostly it’s just taking turns playing.
Nice. Have you done that before?
We did it last Sunday and you know we had some kinks to work out, but I think this Sunday will be a little better, and hopefully it’ll be something that improves each week.
Tell me your church again? Which church is it?
So, for the last eleven years I’ve played at a Baptist church called Life Center Cathedral. And a lot of different musicians in the scene have played there. Jermal Watson used to be on drums, now it’s Walt Lundy, and at one time it was A.J. Hall. Daniel Meinecke plays keys there and Beck Burger. Andrew McGowan used to play keys there. J. Damian is the minister of music; he’s great, unbelievable piano player. Raja [Kassis on guitar]…
What’s it been like at the church? Have they had services?
They have still had a livestream service, and Damian will record himself playing piano. He’s a beast of a piano player. And then he’ll get up and sing to his piano playing. And then they’ll still have a sermon. But it’s really, there’s just a couple people there because Damian does a lot of the audio-video stuff, too, so they’re running the whole service with, I imagine, just a few people.
And how are the parishioners, are they coming to church? Are they coming to the livestream?
Yes, they are definitely doing that. I’ve seen that the numbers are pretty high in terms of people tuning in, so that’s good. Hopefully we’ll have a good return.
Where does that put you? You have the church and the Spotted Cat off the table right now. What are you up to?
So right now, there’s absolutely no gigs because every performance, other than things you do on the internet, everything requires a gathering of people. None of that’s taking place. But what my wife Robin and I did was, right off the bat pretty much, she was like, “We need to have an outlet. We need to have something.” She was on the livestream thing right away. We’ve been doing our weekly duos. Sometimes it’s a trio, because our baby may or may not go to sleep at that time.
When she’s awake she adds in her little part. We do that every Monday at 7[PM]. That’s gone really well, and it’s given me a chance to do some different things really because I’m not really a guitar player, but I’ve got this baritone guitar that I love, and I’ve been playing that a ton.
I can better accompany her a lot of times, for certain songs, with that. I’ll play a little upright bass, I’ll play a little electric bass, I’ll play guitar on our Monday livestream, and that’s been cool. People’s generosity through PayPal and Venmo and CashApp has been something that we’ve really, really appreciated. It’s one thing if you lose one weekly gig; even that can be kind of tough. But you go from having all these gigs to zero gigs overnight. As musicians — I’m sure a lot of the service industry is like this, too, the gig economy — we we’re kind of the first ones out when this happened. And I hope that this is not true, but I feel like we’ll be some of the last to come back, because the music industry is doing best when people feel like they can take a vacation and come down to New Orleans. You know how it is. So, we’re strapping in for the long run and trying to do whatever we can online.
I’m going to be teaching online. Thankfully, thankfully, we have the internet and all that that allows us to do. We’ll be able to generate some income and still be able to look forward to playing for people. That’s another thing that’s difficult. We really enjoy playing for people, probably more than we realize until there’s no gigs and you’re like, “Man, I don’t have my weekly Sunday fix of getting together with the guys.” That’s the thing obviously everybody’s going through: the isolation. That’s what we’re trying to combat with the livestreams: giving ourselves and the people who tune in some feeling of togetherness. And hopefully we’re entertaining them as well. We’re definitely entertaining ourselves; I know that much.
How old is your baby?
My baby. She is four months old.
Four months, wow. Fresh.
Yep.
So both you and Robin are pretty much on the gig economy. What has it been like adjusting, and where’s your head at? It seems like you’ve pivoted quickly.
Early on with this, I felt like there was a difference between the intellectual idea of the virus, and the isolation. It doesn’t really set in right away how different things are going to be. Pretty early on I realized, we’re not going to just walk out of this in a couple months. I think that was good; that I had that realization earlier. It was kind of a feeling of dread, I’ll be honest. I think that comes for everybody at some point. Well, at least for musicians and folks who are going to be out of work for quite a while. So, then, after that, everything is kind of uphill. I think I’ve done pretty well with it at this point. We’ve got our baby here. She doesn’t know what’s going on and she’s just all smiles, and we’ve got to keep her growing and learning and be positive around her. So that is a grounding element. I think for everybody there’s that feeling of uncertainty, and that can be kind of hard. But all in all we’re doing pretty well, starting to get used to that uncertainty and doing the best that we can. Every day is like, “Did I do what I could do to hopefully set myself up to generate some income somehow?” Whether it’s by applying to different grants, applying for unemployment, or thinking of new ways to reach out to people over the internet and spread some music and some joy. We’re keeping busy.
It sounds like you — and I’ve heard this from more than one person — that you think it’s going to be a long haul and a long road before we get back to a functioning music economy.
Absolutely.
What do you see your role in that, or what’s your attitude about a way back to a music economy or a music occupation?
Well, right now I think the way that I have to think about things is as if — and this probably sounds kind of negative and it’s not intended to sound negative at all — but I’m at this point going to act as if the music industry will never come back. I have full faith that it will. But the uncertainty of when means that it’s very possible that it could be a year at least before it returns. That’s if it comes back in the spring. It could come back and be something robust. But I don’t know that that will even happen.
Right now, what I’m doing is improving the way that I get out online, and I’ve got a lot of things in the works that haven’t rolled out yet. But I’m acting like if I’m going to make money, it’s going to happen online because, for the foreseeable future. That’s what it’s going to be for all the musicians. And when we come back, I think for the folks that have done that, it will end up having been a positive thing. Of course, the finances are going to be hard for everybody. But if you come back [to live performances] and the online thing is another tool in your bag.
I’ve always said New Orleans is really the only place I want to live, because we’ve got such a great music scene. Between playing at church, playing in the Groovy Seven — it’s a wedding band and corporate band that I play in — and then doing my band and my wife’s band, you know, I don’t have to leave home to do all that. Not really. I might leave New Orleans sometimes but rarely leave Louisiana to do these gigs, which is great because I’m a father and I want to be close to my family. However, if something were to happen that would cause us to have to leave — which I hope it doesn’t ever do — you’re looking at [a situation where] to generate real income you’d have to be on the road a lot, generally speaking.
There’s something unique to New Orleans, that way of life of a musician, craftsman, artist who can work and earn a living at home.
Yep, exactly. But getting things internet-based opens you up to being anywhere in the world that has an internet connection. You free yourself up, which can’t be a bad thing.
Can you share some of the ideas that you’re working on for using the online tools?
I’m going to have content that’s at different levels. A lot of the stuff that people will see will be free: just me sharing ideas or talking about bass or anything related to the music industry, whether that’s current events or just my take on different things. And of course, bass-playing. I’m already doing private format where folks can tune into a Facebook live stream and ask questions.
I’ve already done some recording from home. Everybody, at this point, sees the value in being able to record from home. I’ve got all the different basses, all the different tones that people would want. I can get any bass sound from home. So, Bill Summers [of Headhunters] sent me some stuff to do and I recorded the tracks from home. That’s something I’m hoping there’ll continue to be more of. And it’s funny because it’s not as expensive as people might think to get good tone. You really just need an interface and a laptop, and your instrument, and a microphone, and some basic knowledge of whatever program you use to record. My knowledge there is very limited, but I’ve still been able to be very effective with it.
Sounds like you have some plans to get these things up and running and turn those things into revenue?
Yeah, some of this stuff has already turned into income, and some of it I haven’t done yet and it’s just in the works. I’m trying to do a lot of stuff with our Monday night, Robin and I, learning enough guitar to not sound terrible on that and hopefully sound good. So that’s been, you know, between that and the baby and stuff around the house, we’ve been quite busy. But that’s something I’ve always wanted to do, the bass lessons, if you want to call it that. Obviously now is the most opportune time to do it, so that will be coming soon.
Are you teaching young people, people from New Orleans, around the world? What does it look like?
Right now, just the students I already had here in New Orleans. The goal is really to broaden it.
You’ve been playing on the scene for over a decade. I think the New Sound gig is what, ten, eleven years?
Yeah, we’re — by the end of the summer it will be twelve years since we started at Spotted Cat.
So that’s been a super significant time of change for the music community in New Orleans and certainly the economy on Frenchmen Street. You’ve been there for all of that. Do you have any insight or thoughts about the changes you’ve seen, and viewing those through the lens of what’s happening now?
The most significant change has just been the sheer amount of clubs that offer live music. I don’t see that as a bad thing. I think as musicians, and a lot of music appreciators that come to New Orleans, they’re kind of looking for more of…you know, there’s a different thing going on Bourbon street as there is on Frenchmen.
I think the thing on Bourbon Street is great. I know a lot of people have different opinions about that. Music is many different things to many different people, and if they’re able to get that on Bourbon Street, or on Frenchmen Street that’s great. However, a lot of people who are coming down to Frenchmen are looking for either “New Orleans music”, whatever their idea of that is, or like, people say “Man, we’ve been wanting to see some sort of progressive jazz!” They usually call it progressive jazz; I don’t really know what to call it, but it’s definitely a vibe. They want to be part of a musical experience where they’re seeing musicians who’ve really worked on their craft, and have skills in different styles, come together and play something they’ve never been exposed to — or maybe not on that level, or in a live setting that’s so intimate.
Then there’s also the element of music club owners that are probably more suited to the Bourbon Street crowd. That has changed the dynamic. But I don’t think it’s damaged it. People talk about the Bourbon-ization of Frenchmen Street. I really don’t think it’s that detrimental. I think those things can coexist. We don’t have less people at the Spotted Cat on Sunday because there’s all these other gigs going on. We have at least as much or more.
One thing I’ve been really, really pleased to see is that, at the Spotted Cat — on Sundays for sure, and I believe on Fridays and Saturdays — they do a cover charge there. It’s only five bucks. But that makes a huge difference. I know everybody said that won’t make a difference because then they won’t spend that money on alcohol. But no, it definitely makes a huge difference. And we greatly appreciate the owners and managers of the club believing in that, and giving it a try. We’ve been sticking with that for the last couple of years, and it’s been so much better. I really think that all of the clubs that believe in their product, and believe in their experience, should do that to diversify the revenue coming in for the musicians, and for the club. You and I have talked about that kind of stuff…
Does the Cat do 100% of the cover to the band?
They do 50%
50–50, and still 20% of the bar?
Right. And also, I have to say, Cheryl and Brad over there at the Cat have done as much as they can right now to help the musicians out. Right in the beginning they sent everyone out letters to say they had lost employment so to be helpful going forward with claiming unemployment, or getting grants. Then they paid — probably all of the [regular] bands — a little something to kind of just help everybody get groceries. And now they’ve started a fund that people can donate to so they can continue doing that. They’re setting a good example there.
That’s great to hear.
I’d definitely like to see more clubs believe in the musicians and have that circle of quality feed into itself.
There’s no question among the community that the Sunday nights at Spotted Cat is a place you can hear really quality music or hear musicians perform at a really high level. Like you said, this kind of level of craft in an intimate setting is a rare experience for audience members, and you certainly hold the quality at premium. A message I’ve heard from lots of musicians right now is that there is an opportunity for change — be it collective bargaining or at least some kind of change in the terms of the employment and how we interact with the clubs. Maybe the cover charge at Spotted Cat can stand as an example of something that’s been successful.
I couldn’t really understand what the apprehension to the idea was, ever, at any point. In my mind, if you believe that you have something of value — the [club owners] know that they do. All the clubs that have music clearly know that there’s value in it. Otherwise, why would they be opening a music club on Frenchmen Street in New Orleans? Music is a commodity they wouldn’t be operating without.
So if you recognize that music has value, I don’t really understand why you can’t charge a very small cover at the door. I do understand there’s maybe some times of the day that club-owners are saying, “Look there’s hardly anybody out on the street, we don’t want to drive people away with this little cover.” But that’s one hundred percent a result of the fact that not all the clubs do it. So they realize that if there’s a slow day, people that aren’t so attracted to that musical experience will just go someplace that’s free to get in the door. But if all the clubs just charged the cover, the clubs would absolutely benefit just as much as the musicians.
People that come out to hear music, they’re coming from some other state. In many cases they’re coming from other countries. They’re not going to just go home to Europe having not seen any music because there was a five-dollar cover. It’s just not going to happen. It’s just so silly that people can’t realize. You might as well charge people at the door. Like I said, we’re not talking about any exorbitant fee.
And then you’re not relying on people drinking a ton. And if people want to drink a ton, that’s great, if that’s what they want. And then the tipping thing. Why is it on the musicians to make sure to pass the tip jar three times a set? I don’t mind doing it; I pass the tip jar on my gig every set. But you’re taking away from the experience if I as the leader pass it more than once a set, which you really should [to make money]. But I just don’t, because I’m not going to take off my bass and let the band play for the equivalent of two songs while I pass the tip jar. Like, come on, man, you know what I mean.
I think the best thing that could happen is for all the clubs to have a cover charge. People thought — the clubs thought, “There’s no way we’ll make as much money.” I promise you, they absolutely have [at the Cat]. That line of thought is just incorrect. The Spotted Cat is at the end of the street, and it’s competing with the clubs that are not charging a cover. So the whole argument of “Now we’re going to cut away from what we make on the drink sales” — no, you won’t. People still want to have drinks. Once that five bucks is gone, they’ve forgotten about it. It’s over.
From your experience over the last decade — clearly you have the experience of what charging the cover has done — what do you feel about being able to implement that on the street? Is this an opportunity? What do you think the music community can do to do that?
I’m not really sure if there’s any unique opportunity right now in the midst of all of this. I guess if there is, it would be that musicians should continue talking to each other. And raising the idea of a cover. And not just one band. I completely understand [that] no band wants to go in and ostracize themselves from their employer by saying, “We want more,” and the employer’s saying, “Hey, we’ve got other guys that want your spot.” And I’m not saying that the clubs…the clubs by and large, I would like to think, are not that tough on their employees that they wouldn’t at least consider that conversation. But I have heard that kind of thing before: that you might not want to talk about it because, you know, it might not be taken well. That kind of thing. That’s really unfortunate.
But I think one way to make musicians feel as though they have some ground to stand on is if they get together. Like I said, I really feel that they should seek out other people at the club that they play at and try to change it internally, club-by-club. I think all the musicians are pretty much on the same page with their belief that a cover charge should be enacted on Frenchmen Street. If you can only get your gig to charge a cover, that’s what you should do. If you can get the club where you play to charge for every band on your night, do that. If you can get the club to charge every night, do that. Whatever you can do. Get the clubs to charge a cover. Because what we’ll end up with is a street where every club is five dollars to get in the door. That’s just where you start. You’ve got to believe in your product, and you’ll be rewarded for it because people are willing to pay. The more we do this, the more it’s just going to be understood that if you come down [to New Orleans], it’s just going to be five bucks to get in. It’s hard for me to understand why that can’t happen. You’re talking about a negligible amount of money.
You still have people walking by clubs and they go, “Oh, it’s ten bucks now for us to get in the door. Oh, [we’ll pass].” But it doesn’t hurt the club at all, because for every person that does that you’ve got other people who’re not only going to pay the cover charge but also patronize the club in other ways — buying a drink, tipping the band. People are so worried about the people that aren’t actually patronizing the club at all. I say, if they don’t want to, that’s completely their right, and I wish them well. But for the folks who think the club is offering something of value, we’re going to give them a way to express that. What they’re doing is directly benefitting the musicians who are bringing the experience to people.
You’ve given a lot of compelling reasons why even a club-owner would benefit from charging a negligible cover. Specifically, the notion that you shouldn’t be concerned about patrons that are turning away from spending money because they’re unlikely to spend money in the first place…
Right.
If they’re not willing to pay a cover then they’re not willing to patronize the club for any significant amount.
Exactly.
So they’re less of a concern than the people who will pay the cover and then patronize the club on orders of magnitude more than the people who wouldn’t pay the cover. One final thought on this matter: people talk about when after Katrina, the clubs opened and musicians who were out of work really needed work, and were just happy to play the gig, so this became the standard. Are we setting that up again, right now?
Oh, wow. You know what, I think that conversation — we’ve got plenty of time, but we don’t want to squander it because that conversation really, really needs to be had. There is an opportunity. But I think we’re up against the same thing: people are going to need money. Just to keep the conversation focused on: yeah, we all need money, the clubs need money, the musicians need money, but guess what? We’re going to make more of it, not less, by charging a cover. People: please, please stop being scared that we’re going to turn them away; the folks that aren’t really all that interested in patronizing the club. They’re going to change their mind when every club on the street is charging five bucks.
So, you know, there’s no real reason not to see that change happen. There’s no part of the scene that a little bit of extra money does not improve. And that includes, of course, the value to the customer. When people pay for something, usually right off the bat they feel as though they’ve gotten something of value greater than if that was free. Brands all over the world understand: if you charge what your product is actually worth, people have a greater respect for it.
