Finance.vote — Telegram QUIZ & AMA — October 30
On Friday, October 30, we had the pleasure to welcome to our Telegram chat:
Nick Almond, Co-Founder & CEO,
Yuvi Lightman, CTO of Finance.vote.
We asked them questions about the development of Finance.vote.
Some sentences have been slightly edited for readability but the meaning has been conserved.
Finance.vote is all about voting technology and decentralized governance. It is a decentralized system for enhancing the governance of crypto networks, engaging in market discovery and socially coordinated trading.
Finance.vote is permissionless like Uniswap and requires no KYC. It will use decentralized identity tokens to ensure the incorruptibility of the consensus.
Finance.vote has partnered with CommerceBlock, who will support with the integration of key components of their technology into the finance.vote ecosystem.
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: What did you do before crypto, how did you get into crypto and did you have any other venture in crypto previous to being involved with Finance.vote?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: I’ve been in academia for pretty much the last 20 years. I spent 10 years in experimental physics which is where I got my PhD and the last ten researching how people learn and organize in institutional settings. Somewhere in the middle of that, I was teaching cryptography and discovered bitcoin and I’ve been down the rabbit hole ever since.
I’ve been advising some other crypto projects through thick and thin in the bear market. So I know the crypto space very well.
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: Before crypto, I was doing a Math PhD, became obsessed with it, dropped out of school for an R&D tech job and won a bitcoin hackathon, started doing bitcoin startups and never looked back.
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: What’s your role at Finance.vote, and what is the project about in a few simple sentences?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: I’m the founder of the network and I will be leading the network to a point of community-run decentralization. Finance.vote is all about voting technology. We’re releasing new forms of decentralized governance.
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: I help design the thing and am in charge of building it. I’m the CTO! :)
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: Which kinds of voting are we talking about? Any spicy thing with the incoming US election?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: Probably best to overview the bits we’re working on.
Our vote markets are the launch component that goes live next week. And that’s an adversarial environment to test our voting tech. Then we’re going to launch second layer governance which will be like Reddit for crypto. Where token specific miniDAOs will be places of debate about the crypto space. Finally, we’ll launch our social trading where you’ll be able to vote on a portfolio and trade in a group like this or any chatroom.
It’s got endless applications we’re just kick-starting it. The DAO will build what it wants in the future.
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: To me, it’s about turning up the resolution on collective decision making. We need more nuance.
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: Will the votes just be yes/no?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: We might do some yes/no stuff, but we’re most interested in quadratic voting
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: We’ve been building the product for maybe…2 months now?
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: Did spend a lot of time thinking about the idea before finally hitting the go button?
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: I made a crappy prototype using quadratic voting on a Reddit thing on a weekend in Thailand for Nick a while back
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: And yeah we’ve been making closed prototypes and testing them in the wild in places.
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: Is there KYC?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: No, we’re permissionless like Uniswap. People who set up multiple accounts (sybils) are just part of the game.
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: I think we’re the first to use NFTs as identities. We don’t try to stop sybils. We make them pay
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: What is the token use case? How did you make sure it captures the value of the ecosystem you’re building?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: We like to think of $FVT (Finance Vote Token) as the power in the system. You will be able to stake it to make your voice louder in key decisions. And you are rewarded in it for sharing your research with us in the vote markets. And yeah we capture value by making users burn some to enter the system.
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: So we create this tradeoff, you have a dynamic price for creating an identity that uses the binary search auction we invented. You burn 100 FVT for the first identity, then you burn 200 for the second. The price decays slowly over time.
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: Won’t the design give more power to wealthier people?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: That’s what we’re trying to mitigate against. It’s a huge problem in systems like MakerDAO and Compound. A handful of people control all the power.
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: Will someone who wants to vote many times have to pay up more for each vote?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: We’ve got a voting power token $V that decides how loud your voice is. To get high $V you have to earn it. Having a higher stake won’t get you more power in our vote markets. You can only earn it by predicting the market correctly.
Quadratic Voting is all about adding economics to voting. You want to make your voice louder, it’s going to cost you.
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: The whole idea behind quadratic voting is that it allows people to express the magnitude of their preference without creating a most-extreme-player-wins scenario. As opposed to one coin one vote, which is how democracy works.
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: Got it. I mean, philosophically, it’s interesting. Sure, there’s democracy in which everyone has an equal vote but allowing people to spend some of their resources if they believe in something doesn’t sound too bad.
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: Yeah the protection mechanism is that it gets exponentially costly.
1 vote costs 1 $V, but 10 costs 100 $V
5 costs, 5x5 = 25 $V
It’s the square of your votes. Hence the name quadratic voting.
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: The TPS aspect is ambiguous, it depends on how you are counting. It means that for example, we could have quadratic content curation without people paying fees every time they like a comment. But without the trusted third party. Yeah you should probably read about “consensus cracking” there’s a whole science of…herding humans
Q — Twitter user @NguyenQ32225128: A lot of projects offer miracles. Your Bicameral governance structure is a new governance model in the cryptocurrency space, can you tell us in more detail about it?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: This is an interesting governance structure that I’ve been playing within the real world for years. The idea is that you split high-level decisions, with ratification into more senior structures. This is our system will be the Decentralised Monetary Fund, the DMF. Then you have more dialogic spaces where decisions are reached by reaching consensus over time. So our miniDAOs act as a second layer to our mainDAO. If you are respected in the miniDAO you can graduate to the main one to make serious decisions that materially alter the future of the network.
Q — Twitter user @y1sus_afp: Finance.vote will make an air-launch similar to Uniswap for its users. What can we expect from this great event? What differences and improvements will http://Finance.vote provide compared to the Uniswap launch?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: Yeah I had a little hop, skip and a jump when I discovered this mechanism. It’s fun.
So we’re doing something called vote mining. A proportion of network inflation is emitted to voters to break voter apathy. This is stored up for 6 months at network launch. It will be airdropped to all the voters dependent on how many votes they made. Would be like the uniswap airdrop but if it was based on the volume of trades, and then the airdrop continues for 5 years every day.
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: Well one difference is that ours will be weighted by usage in a fine-grained way. It’s just a little energy to jump-start the system, shorten the externalities feedback loop. Sometimes it’s good to do, but it takes a while to see the benefits, so we just give em shit coins
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: Makes sense, like yield farming gives the incentive to provide liquidity
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: Yeah we have something for LPs too. We’re using something called “pulsed liquidity mining”. Tokens are emitted in bursts, you can hop in and out of the pool if you want to play short term liquidity provision. And the DAO can change how much tokens the LPs are paid in, and the voters who don’t provide liquidity get an emission of tokens too
Q — Telegram user Boom Poww: Why do we need DeFi? What is the new thing that defi brings us?
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: Bitcoin was money without banks. DeFi could be governance without government.
Q — Telegram user Winter Kommt 🥶: Voting Power seems to be something important within Finance.vote, can you explain exactly what is the function of it and why users should increase it?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: Vote power is the meritocratic dimension to our system. It’s the way into breaking plutocracy. If there’s another way to shape influence in the system that’s more than just a token stake you can balance the power differently. So if $V is earned rather than bought, it allows you to incorporate players with financial capita and knowledge capital
Q — Telegram user Winter Kommt 🥶: When making predictions with Finance Vote, is it similar to trading binary options?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: It’s not quite like binary options. You could call them quadratic options I guess, but you’re not making an exact price call. You’re guessing on the market order. Which will be the highest gaining token
Q — Telegram user Jesus Freites: On September 27th, Finance.vote launched a simulation of its voting markets. Do you plan to do one more before the air-launch you have planned?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: The vote market simulation was an interesting nightmare. We decided to try out something like a version on Twitter. It turns out they just hide half of the comments from you. You can’t get an API key for them for love nor money. It certainly made it clear you needed a blockchain for it.
Q — Telegram user Sachin Yadav: In your opinion, which is more important for the Finance.vote between Community, Investors and Market or Exchange?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: Community. 100%. This is a community project. We need users for this to work. Which is why we’re building our incentive structures the way we are.
The market will follow the adoption, this is the case for all projects.
Q — Telegram user Sen: How many times must I pass to see if my choice was right or not? Do I obtain any benefit just for vote?
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: Every round has two stages of equal length (1 week). First voting then waiting for the markets to determine the winner. You don’t get additional V or FVT just for voting unless you are correct. Except maybe in the airdrop.
Q — Telegram user Rock Minds: What are the appeal mechanisms for cases where the results are not convincing to everyone (data not accurate), how to resolve these problems?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: If the vote markets start predicting the future, crazy things will happen. I’m not expecting that to happen for a while or even close. Markets are complex adaptive systems. There’s no way it will be accurate all the time. But if it provides alpha it will be a useful market/sentiment indicator for traders.
The fun is doing the research and playing and being rewarded for it. The data is the cherry on top. We think there’s oracle potential in it
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: The prediction markets are intended to have a clear winner. A different mechanism, the miniDAOs, will be used in cases where the answer is ambiguous.
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: When automated trading bot based on the wisdom & collective experience of the finance.vote users?
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: That’s phase 3, starship — social trading. Obelisk, Pyramid, Starship are our phases
Q — Telegram user Hermawan | Trader✓: Why should people choose to join Finance.vote? Who is the biggest competitor in the field, in your opinion?
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: We are unique in many ways, but similar enough to be easy to use. One-sided prediction markets will transform prediction markets the way uniswap transformed DEXs. Probably the biggest competitor would be Augur.
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: How many people are in the team? For how long have you been working on Finance.vote?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: There are 5 of us at the moment. I’ve been working on this concept for years, but it’s taken me finding the right team to hit the go button. We’ve been talking about applications of QV for about 2 years. Nicosey is the CEO of CommerceBlock and our chief technical advisor. And is going to help us with ZKP tech and scalability solutions. And we’ve got a kick-arse product designer. Who makes beautiful designs for our front end.
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: Did you raise funds so far? If so, how did you handle them? Are you planning to do any future raises?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: We raised $1.4m privately, which are in the custody of the .vote foundation, held in stablecoin and Ether. That will give us a healthy runway to bootstrap the network to decentralization. We’re going to auction 20m tokens in a liquidity generation event.
Q — Telegram user Manugotsuka: Scam projects appear to be becoming something of a habit to the DeFi space. How will Finance.votes affront this problem with its technology?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: We won’t be able to catch all scams. We want to use the crowd to help filter out the bad stuff. Our “New Tokens” vote market will allow people to vote on the very early Uniswap coins. I think that’s where the scam spotting could come in.
Q — Telegram user Jesus Freites: Finance.vote will use the Mainstay Protocol provided by its partnership with CommerceBlock. What solutions will this protocol provide to the platform? How will it help make voting immutable and secure?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: We’re looking at Mainstay as a way to record immutable voting histories in a scalable way. You can store an entire google drive on-chain with that tool, and record its history in every bitcoin block. It could be hugely transformative.
Q — Twitter user @alej_pacedo: CommerceBlock will support Finance.vote in exploring zero-knowledge tests and statewide chains. How will this help improve the difficult scalability, which is the Achilles heel of many DeFi platforms? Will it have any influence on increasing TPS?
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: Yeah so CommerceBlock is our recent partner. I’m sitting in a room with the CEO right this minute! We’re discussing the design of our second layer governance system. They’ve done some super exciting work on Bitcoin. Their statechain work is the next generation of bitcoin in my view.
Yeah it’s not so much TPS that’s necessary it’s getting the system to a state that has the throughput that meets the network demands. And with security pay off that you’re willing to swallow. We think Bitcoin will come into the DeFi picture at some point and it will be big.
We are looking at their Mainstay protocol as a way to keep immutable data histories. So people can prove they said something at a certain time. The CEO, Nick, and I are good friends and we help each other out on token systems and infrastructure design stuff. We make a good team.
Q — Alex Raffin from GAINS: What stage is the project/product at? You’ve talked about this a bit already but maybe you can give us some more details :)
A — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote: The smart contracts are done, pending an audit, and we’re finishing up the interfaces now.
A — Dr Nick from Finance.vote: The best way to get involved is in our telegram discussion room, we’ll be giving away NFT identities so people can test our product out pre-launch. Our vote markets are going to launch next week, and you need one of those identities to use it. The auction is built and on testnet, which will play a big part in our ecosystem in the future. All of our identities are NFTs. They will store your rank in the system and will be customisable.
Our main DAO and second layer governance system is about 6 months away. In phase 2 of the network.
Thanks a lot for coming in today guys. It was really interesting to learn more about finance.vote. We had some great discussions. Is there anything else you’d like to add? Where can people go to follow what you’re doing? — Alex Raffin from GAINS
Thanks for having us Alexandre, this was a lot of fun. We’re on Twitter and Telegram. Come and join us there it’s going to be a hectic couple of weeks. You’ll be able to watch the launch live and get involved in our vote markets. The users will shape the network from the outset. — Yuvi Lightman from Finance.vote
And yes thank you, a real pleasure. This group is one of the best out there. — Dr Nick from Finance.vote
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