An Afternoon with BelgianBoolean [pt3]
In this third installment of “Afternoon with BelgianBoolean”, Ben and Tanner discuss practical tools and ideas for those who struggle with depression as well as for producers and leads who may work with others who wrestle with the illness.
Also see part one and part two if you missed them.
GT: I think there are a few clear takeaways here for people who are feeling depression or that crushing sensation or the absence of hope. There are steps they can take. Finding the power or the self-confidence to address depression for what it is. To tell others what it is they’re feeling and to make sure they have that space to open up to people about who they really are and how they’re feeling. Because if we can’t tell the people we work with — how can we trust them? And if we can’t trust them, how we can work together?
Ben: Dealing with depression is something that cannot be done alone. If you do, you WILL fail. I’ve tried it. There are times when I don’t think I would’ve been around had it not been for these guys that have been with me through it. You have to have that support network to do the therapy, to encourage you to go to the doctor, to support you through the process. I’ve accepted the fact I’m going to have this struggle for the rest of my life — but the thing that gets better is knowing that I have the tools to address it and the resources to cope with it.
GT: It’s an everyday job, right — Remembering those tools.
Ben: Oh man and you’ll forget — you forget how to use them and you forget how bad it feels. We’re wired to forget how bad those feelings are so when it hits you again, it feels like a freight train.
GT: So assuming you forget and when you do feel it coming — what tools do you use to help you recover?
Ben: A big thing is accepting what it is. You accept what it is and you say to yourself, “This is a temporary emotional state that you’re gonna be in. It’s not necessarily a reflection of reality — it may feel real but it’s not necessarily an accurate reflection of the world around me.” — and then you just let it flow through you. I know that sounds meditative but I mean it. And on that note, meditation and mindfulness are great.
GT: Anything special you do for meditation and mindfulness practices?
Ben: If it’s happening while I’m at my desk, I’ll close my eyes and just do breathing exercises and it’s about keeping my mind focused. I focus on my breath which is really about keeping my mind focused. My mind will go all over the place, so it’s about keeping on the current task. Doing that for about ten or fifteen minutes helps a bit.
Ben: Another thing that’s helpful is straight up taking sick days when it’s really bad. There’s no difference between that and having a cold or the flu or something else. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. There are days when you will make that depression so, so much worse if you try to go in and work your way through it. It’s a downer on the people around you, and it’s not good for you. Whereas if you take that time to recoup, get yourself together, and allow yourself to relax and regroup you’ll feel so much better. And don’t feel guilty — allow yourself to do what you need to do whether that’s sleeping, laying on the couch, watching a movie or playing games. Doing that while making yourself feel guilt free when you do it is so important.
GT: Is the guilt from addressing the people around you and remaining transparent? And that’s where you have to be transparent, right?
Ben: Yes, and it comes through experience in dealing with it and being okay with it. I still have moments when I feel guilty about it, but more often than not, that guilt is just coming from you internally. At least for me — it’s so rarely coming from an outside source.
GT: Well, I love the idea of acknowledging it as though you have the flu or a fever. Like it’s no different from a viral infection.
Ben: I think that’s the big struggle. People think it’s this ambiguous, floaty sort of thing. Well, it’s not. And in fact, it’s very well defined. Like you treat it. I’m diagnosed with it. Doctors have told me I’ve got this. It’s no different from anything else.
GT: What do you say to people around you who have noticed — how can we help those people feel more comfortable and more open to expressing that kind of information to their teammates? Certainly there are people out there who don’t know and are willing to make the effort to understand.
I’m curious how, for instance — for art leads or senior artists who are supposed to take care of people, for producers, who need to make sure their staff is healthy and happy — how do they approach this topic and help people feel welcome to take that sick day and exercise that transparency?
Ben: I think in that case it’s straight up what you said — being proactively transparent, having those policies that are verbally communicated to new hires. Having that one on one time where you say, “This is my policy on mental health issues as a lead.” Break the ice with them. Don’t put the onus on those people under you to come to you about it. Give them the path to build that road so from the beginning that road is built, and if they need reminders, reinforce that and talk about it.
For me, I certainly I wear it on my sleeve. And you can do that with certain people and just ask: “How are you doing? How’s it going?” They don’t have to talk about what is going on necessarily. I would, but not everyone will. It’s very individual. “You don’t have to tell me what’s going on but if you’re feeling a lot of this, don’t be afraid to take time off. To recoup and get yourself together. I want to remind you, you can take the time off if you need because I need you to be healthy.”
Ben: I have a philosophy that if you’re in a leadership position — the worst thing you can do is expect people to go above and beyond for you just because that’s their job. That’s not to say that people won’t. But The best thing you can do is be invested in the well-being of the people on your team. If you invest in people, they’ll go to the ends of the earth for you. They’ll become better people and better artists as a result for you and better assets for the company — and better friends. Part of your job as a producer as a leader is to think of what’s good for the project and for the people and let yourself invest in the team. Encourage them to live and have happy and healthy lives.
GT: Yeah that’s something that we really try to do at GT.
Ben: Well, you and I talked about that — you had seen your fair share of frustration in studio work before GT. And even though, starting something is risky, it gives you the opportunity to establish those rules.
GT: Those experiences help you establish new professional and personal values. It helps you bring in this structure. Like people are gonna come and go from any company — what can we do to make them great artists AND great people? They’ll take it with them and all these people we love and respect who work for us will go off and do something different, but the change starts here.
Ben: Change as I’ve seen it doesn’t happen from leadership down as much as it does from team members. From where I’ve seen, it happens on the ground level with team members building some of that culture themselves — knowing you can make things healthier, having a values system as a worker and as an artist, knowing what you want out of each job — it’s one of the things you have to do.
Everyone gets really excited about working on a particular intellectual property (IP) — try not to rely on just that. You really have to ask yourself: Does this studio culture sit with you as an individual? Is this a place you can be happy? Do they believe in the same things you do? The IP is secondary to what you want out of a work place and how you want to grow and who you want to become. Because here’s the deal, that IP doesn’t keep you warm at night; it just doesn’t. When you’ve had a bad day and you’re going home — I hope you’ve got good people you work with to stay happy and to stay healthy.
GT: Well, I think you’ve done an incredible job being vocal and letting people know this is what you’re going through. The fact that we’re able to have this conversation so frankly is incredible; I hope a lot of people read this and realize this is a particularly big issue in our industry. Like you said, we don’t know what people are feeling. We don’t know what they’re dealing with — it’s impossible to assume. So we have to make sure the scaffolding is there — that we can talk to each other and build those bridges and feel like we’re part of a team — and feeling that bond with that we’re in this together.
Ben: Right so that transparency — I don’t want to say it’s “disarming”, but it lets people let their guard down because it sets an expectation for conversation. If you open up about your own struggles, it lets people open up about their own. That’s why I think being open is really important. When that depression is constantly internalized — that’s the stuff that eats away at you. Any time I’ve walked away from people and chosen not to deal with things — that’s when I was really at my worst. Also, vocalizing online helps not only yourself, but other people as well.
Well and again acknowledging that it’s just as much as a viral infection and that it’s no differnet.
Acknowledging it from a top down position — for my own sake — I mean I ask people right away. I tell people right away What kind of leadership style do I have and then we hang out like this I don’t want people to be afraid of me or afraid or nervous to talk to me. Like if that’s the case if I’ve angered you that much let’s acknowledge it let’s talk about it. Let’s figure out how to be better and work through things
Ben: If people don’t have an avenue to express them and work through those negative emotions, it poisons a team. I’ve seen situations where teams fall apart because those attitudes spread extremely quickly. I’ve seen places that suffer because of a lack of transparency and you just see a team turn against leadership in a really big way and it creates this adversarial relationship — as if making games wasn’t hard enough!
GT: Oh yeah, and it can happen overnight.
Ben: It takes a while to build a healthy good team. It doesn’t take long to destroy it.
GT: Well those hard times remind us what it takes to be good at what we do. And they remind us to show empathy. I could talk crap all day about companies that treat people poorly, but without them how do you know what to do otherwise? How do you create an example when you don’t know what NOT to do?
Ben: We as people are really dumb, and the only time you learn is when you have really bad experiences, ha. I find those experiences really valuable. I learned a lot about what I didn’t want out of a work experience. Like I’d love to be an art director down the road. Whether you want to be in leadership or not you need to see what things are going right or wrong in a studio — like what you want or don’t want out of your members and leadership, and you can have a personal taste of what you want out of studio culture and what’s healthy for you.
And I know as a newbie it’s hard. It’s easy to want to take the first thing you’re offered. Even then you should be a little careful though. It’s okay to pick and choose if you have the resources to do so because that informs a lot of your experience moving forward.
GT: Well thanks for diving into that with us. You want to talk about something lighter? What’s inspiring you right now?
To find out more about BelgianBoolean and his work, check out his website and his Twitter. This blog is a publication of GameTextures , the largest online library of physically based rendering materials — “You build the world, we’ll bring the textures.”
Thanks for reading our third installment of Afternoon with BelgianBoolean! Stay tuned for the finale next week when we chat on with Ben on what’s inspiring him in terms of film, video games, and workflow.
