Dear Pastor,
do you consider gays to be lesser than straights?
Me: Pastor, thank you so much for being willing to have this phone conversation. I know we have never met, but I deeply love Jesus and am gay.
Pastor: Well, Mike, I will try to answer your questions.
Me: Do you consider gays to be lesser than straights?
Pastor: No. I love all people, including those who are gay.
Me: I assume you sincerely hold such a belief. What does your love look like when it is applied to gays?
Pastor: All gays are welcome in my church.
Me: True, all may be welcome, but gays don’t hold the same privileges as straights in your church. That seems like a discriminatory type of love — as though gays are lesser than straights. Relatedly, your particular Global Methodist Church split from the original United Methodist Church. Why so?
Pastor: To be fair, the United Methodist Church is the one who split from their original theology. The Global Methodist Church is ensuring that the original theology remains pure.
Me: In what ways is the United Methodist Church straying from its original theology?
Pastor: Well, the two primary — and contentious — areas are the marrying of gay couples and the ordination of gay pastors within the church.
Me: Thank you for the clarification. However, with all due respect, I once again ask, “Why do you consider gays to be lesser than straights?” You are restricting important rights from gays that their fellow straights enjoy.
Pastor: We do not consider anyone “lesser than” someone else. But we must follow what the Bible says about homosexuality.
Me: What exactly does the Bible teach about not performing gay marriages and not ordaining gay pastors?
Pastor: The Bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin. Therefore, men who proclaim to be gay are not appropriate role models to be pastors. Furthermore, the Bible is clear that marriage should only be between a man and his wife.
Me: Pastor, you say that the Bible is “clear” about these two issues. If so, let me ask: “What specific verses condemn gay marriages and gay pastor ordination”?
Pastor: There are no specific verses. But we know there are two particular verses from the Bible that state marriage is only intended between a man and his one wife. Additionally, there are five specific verses in the Bible that homosexuality is a grave sin.
Me: Thank you. Pastor, if you are willing, let’s first look at the five “clobber passages” that purport to condemn homosexuality. What was the context behind those five verses when they were originally written?
Pastor: The “context” is that God condemned the people of Sodom because their homosexuality was an abomination. Leviticus specifically defines homosexuality as an egregious sin. Later, the Apostle Paul states that homosexuality prevents someone from entering the kingdom of heaven.
Me: Pastor, I’m sure you can appreciate that, as a gay Christian, I am intensely interested in the context of the verses that condemn homosexuality. Scholars agree that men who engaged in anal sex during those times (when the verses were written) were guilty of raping and abusing other men. Men of power would copulate with whomever they pleased — including women and men. To do such was a sign of power and strength. Thus, wretched men from a position of power would anally rape men of lesser status: slaves, male prostitutes, conquered soldiers, and young pubescent boys who were being “mentored.” Thus, the “sin” of homosexuality is not possessing same-sex attraction or engaging in man-to-man love. Rather, it was the horrific abuse of powerful men by those of less power.
Pastor: I still believe the Bible is clear regarding the sin of homosexuality. I also believe men who openly declare themselves to be gay are not suitable to be ordained. Regarding gay marriage, the Bible is very clear that “It is not good for the man to be alone. He should have a suitable helpmate” (Genesis 2:18). Additionally, Genesis 2:24 commands, “A man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.” It is patently obvious that from the very beginning (i.e., Adam and Eve), marriage was intended between one man and his wife. The Bible in no way speaks of the permissibility of marriage between two gay men.
Me: Pastor, do you know what Jesus considered to be the context of Genesis 2:18 and 2:24? Those two verses are cited by Jesus to actually refute the Pharisees’ belief that it was lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason (Matthew 19:2). Jesus then explains to his disciples that a man must not divorce his wife (except for marital unfaithfulness) and that any divorced man who marries another woman commits adultery (Matthew 19:9). Thus, the two verses in Genesis 2 are not a treatise against gay marriage. Rather, they are a declaration that marriage should be permanent. In fact, the Bible does not mention the definition of marriage. And it makes no condemnation of gay marriage. It seems that divorce and adultery are actually the “big deal” topics for Jesus. Pastor, do you currently have any “out” gays in your church?
Pastor: None that I am aware of.
Me: Do you have any “out” divorcees in your church?
Pastor: Yes.
Me: Interesting.
Pastor: But be that as it may, the Church’s historical and biblical definition of marriage has always been “between one man and his one wife.” Additionally, the traditional practice of the Christian Church is for the man to abstain from having intercourse until married to a woman. Accordingly, our church stands on the historical, biblical, and traditional definition of marriage and sexual purity.
Me: Would I be wrong in stating that the “historical” definition of marriage (i.e., going back to the origins of God’s Church) would actually be polygamy? Did not many of the patriarchs (including Abraham, Isaac, David, and Solomon) have multiple wives? How, then, can you declare that the historical definition of marriage is between a man and his one wife? Furthermore, would I be wrong in stating that the “traditional” sexual practices of the church include sex before marriage? Perhaps you are aware that 80% of self-avowed Christians have sex before marriage. That is a pretty strong tradition!
Pastor: I know of many pastors within our new denomination. And I know that they would attempt to be very gracious toward gays who attend their church. We aim — and succeed — in providing Christlike love to every gay man we meet.
Me: Yes, I can imagine that you do not rail against gays — unlike, say, the Southern Baptist Convention or Evangelicals at large. So, my question to you is, “Would Jesus view gays as lesser than straights?”
Pastor: Mike, you know that such is a rhetorical question. Of course, Jesus views gays as having the same dignity and worth as straights.
Me: Then, I suggest you and I and every Christian go and do likewise. Pastor, would you agree that gays are not provided the same opportunities as straights — and that the Global Methodist Church specifically singles gays out for exemption? Forbidding gays from being married in a Global Methodist Church is absolutely discriminating against them when compared to straight opportunities. And banning people from ordination who publicly identify as gay is an intentional posture that treats gays as lesser than straights. Can’t you see the discrimination?
Pastor: This is not a discriminatory issue but a theological difference.
Me: Really? Approximately half of the Methodist Church treats gays as equals in all ways, while the other half does not. What would it take for the non-affirming Methodists to change their theology toward complete equality for gays?
Pastor: I believe that we pastors in the Global Methodist Church consider it to be denying God’s Word if we were to conduct gay marriages and ordain gay pastors. And we are committed to fulfilling the commands of the Bible.
Me: Yes, I understand how it would be hard for you to go against what you are convinced is God’s Word. Let me ask: “Do you believe the Bible is inspired by God, infallible, and the sole source of absolute Truth?”
Pastor: I do believe the Bible is inspired by God and, therefore, is our primary source for determining God’s Truth.
Me: Really? It seems to me that pastors often “pick and choose” which Bible verses to follow. They keep the verses that align with their perspective; the troubling verses are ignored. For example, do you believe that men who engage in anal sex with other men should be killed? Leviticus 20:13 clearly commands that men who have sex with each other are despicable and must be put to death. Do you, pastor, believe that me and my husband should be put to death?
Pastor: Of course not! That verse was intended for the righteous Jews who were planning to stay clean — and to ensure that the Jewish race was not contaminated with heathen practices.
Me: Do you consider me to be a heathen? I know that Jesus will never leave me, and I will never leave Him. And my highest priority in life is to love all others in Jesus’s manner.
Pastor: I am glad for your commitment to Jesus. Please understand, though, that Jesus wants us to obey the commands in the Bible.
Me: Really? I thought Jesus fulfilled all of the commands in the Bible and expects us to express His love to all others.
Pastor: Mike, sin matters. You seem to be a gentle person, but you err in only focusing on love and not on obedience.
Me: Well, you have been nothing but kind and patient with me during our conversation. Thank you immensely for your time and willingness to discuss controversial topics. I have one more question for you. Is that okay?
Pastor: Go ahead.
Me: What will it take for the members of the Global Methodist Church to change their beliefs and realign with the United Methodist Church?
Pastor: Right now, I see that as impossible.
Me: Well, thank you very much for treating me with dignity and respect. I wish you God’s very best.
Dr. Mike Rosebush (Ph.D., Counseling Psychology; he, him, his;) is the creator and editor of GAYoda, plus a writer for Backyard Church. A short synopsis of Dr. Rosebush’s life can be found at I Lived the Most Unusual Gay Christian Life Ever. He may be contacted at mikerosebush75@gmail.com.
