Episode 6: Creating financial freedom with Dzung Dang
Dzung is the co-founder and CEO of Nano Technologies, a fintech startup offering on-demand payroll.
Dzung is someone who truly embraces change: taking on risky jobs, moving countries, even dropping out of HBS! But it’s led to an exciting career so far.
In this interview, we’ll hear about asymmetric upsides, B2B vs. B2C concerns, and the only healthy type of comparison in your life.
Jesse: Great to connect Dzung! To kick things off, would love to hear about your career journey — what you did in the past and what skills that journey has equipped you with.
Dzung: I started my career at McKinsey, first in the Singapore office in 2008, and then in 2009 I helped set up an office in Vietnam. Most of Vietnam didn’t really know what consulting was at the time so that was interesting! I also got to work across the world, mostly working with financial services clients and governments. My most memorable experience was working with the Georgian president’s office to work on economic development strategy; 6 months after that case, the president was overthrown! That was wild.
I was at McKinsey for just over 4 years. Then went to Harvard Business School in 2013, where I studied for one year before taking indefinite leave.
At the end of my first year at HBS, I had the opportunity to join Uber as a General Manager and help launch their efforts in Vietnam, which I thought was a really cool role. I was faced with a tricky decision to join Uber and leave HBS, or to go back to HBS but pass on the opportunity. Interestingly, almost everyone around me (including friends and mentors) advised me against joining Uber because it wasn’t obvious that Uber would do well in Vietnam. But to me, the Uber job provided asymmetric upside: if it works out, it’ll have been a great career move and hopefully great financial upside. If it doesn’t, it’ll at least be an interesting story and I can always go back to HBS. So I joined Uber! Fast forward 3 years, we sold the Vietnam arm of Uber to Grab at a very good outcome, so my decision worked out.
After Uber, I did a few things: I joined VNG (the Tencent of Vietnam) as the CEO and then did some consulting work with several Vietnamese banks on their digitalization efforts. It was during this time that I came across a business model that’s worked well in the US, Europe, and LatAm, and would eventually become the basis for Nano.
Jesse: Awesome, got it. And tell me more about how you thought through the tough decision to leave HBS.
Dzung: It certainly wasn’t an easy decision, but it actually wasn’t too hard either. The part I miss most are the friends, but I feel confident that the friends I made at HBS will continue to be there for me for the rest of my life. Apart from that, honestly the value of a business education is to prepare you and give you the confidence to make that career leap of faith. And that’s exactly what I did!
Jesse: For sure, leaning in and taking risk is a big part of what I learned at business school as well. Sometimes you need to live your truth!
Dzung: One thing I want to share with you: my whole life I suffered from what I playfully call ‘insecure-overachiever complex’ — which many people share —
Jesse: Of course, including myself!
Dzung: Right, and only during my time at Uber did I manage to get out of that complex. Taking the risk to work at Uber was the first time I made a career decision that felt right to me and made me feel completely accountable, instead of merely doing what was most socially acceptable. I believe getting into that empowered mindset is really important.
It was the first time I made a career decision that felt right to me, instead of merely doing what was most socially acceptable. I believe getting into that empowered mindset is really important.
Jesse: I totally get that. I often say that sometimes it’s nice to feel like the underdog — to do something where the expectation is that you’ll fail but you try your best regardless — and that’s liberating in its own way.
And so entrepreneurship must have been even more empowering and fulfilling!
Dzung: I was 34 when I first contemplated entrepreneurship, and I wanted to try it before my opportunity cost got too high. So I jumped in! We got into Y Combinator (Winter 2021 cohort) and recently raised a successful seed round. Entrepreneurship’s been hard, it’s not always rosy, and I have to do a bit of everything: have to tinker, have to put on lots of hats. But it’s been fun.
Jesse: Ok, so tell me more about Nano. The inspiration for the company and how it’s been going.
Dzung: Nano is an on-demand payroll product where we help companies pay employees on demand or daily instead of monthly, which is most common in Asia.
While at Uber, I experienced a lot of excitement and fulfillment from creating a positive impact for people. So I wanted to make sure my startup would serve the underprivileged. The segment we targeted were those underserved by banks: in Vietnam, 30 million people have no choice but to take on some kind of high cost credit, ranging from consumer financing at 70–80% APR to loan sharks charging 500%+ APR. I believe that Nano is a great solution for these people who need cheaper alternative financing.
Nano’s earned-wage access model gives employees access to their wages anytime (instead of getting paid once monthly) so that they can better manage their cash flow. In Vietnam, payday is commonly on the 10th of every month while big expenses like rent are due at month end, so Nano helps bridge working capital needs. And not only is this service completely free for the employees, but it also leads to better retention for the employers.
Building Nano hits all the elements of Ikigai for me: it’s my passion to help the underprivileged, it’s fintech which I know a lot about, it can significantly improve people’s lives, and it’s a good business model as evidenced by successful analogs in the US and around the world!
Jesse: That’s really awesome. And how’s it been going overall?
Dzung: It’s a roller coaster, in a good way. Our product is really great: Nano integrates directly with employer systems and because of that, the money we advance to employees is nearly risk free for us. Our writeoff is about 1/10th of a good bank (a bank’s retail book typically has writeoffs of 0.1–0.3%).
Consumer adoption has also been great. We’ve seen 60% of employees of our partner companies sign up, and 20–30% of employees using our services on a very regular basis. Retention is very high. For many consumers, Nano is a no-brainer.
The hardest part is selling to employers. Selling to back office is notoriously difficult, and even with the data that shows employee attrition is 60% lower when using Nano, companies are resistant to change. In B2C businesses, if your product is good, you’ll eventually hit viral growth. But in B2B, achieving that hockeystick growth is more than just good product — businesses like to wait until the service becomes mainstream before adopting it themselves, and sales cycles are very long. So for Nano, sales has been the hardest part. Now, our sales numbers are actually very good — we just signed 6 new employers including 3 public companies — but the day to day is a roller coaster.
Lastly, we’ve put in a lot of work to settle on a team we feel really good about. Early on, though, the situation was tougher. For example, the first sales team I put together came back empty handed after 6 months. And then they all resigned. That was admittedly a very hard moment for me. Now we’re in a much better place with a solid team that shares the same values. Suffice it to say, our history has included both highlights and lowlights, and all we can do is learn and move forward.
In B2B, achieving that hockeystick growth is more than just good product — businesses like to wait until the service becomes mainstream before adopting it themselves, and sales cycles are very long.
Jesse: Appreciate you sharing all that color, really interesting to hear what you’re excited about and what worries you. And how many users does Nano have currently?
Dzung: About 35,000 users (as of June) which we consider a big success at this early stage. Especially with a few big customers recently coming on our platform, we’re very hopeful. And hearing powerful testimonials from our customers, about how Nano is having lifechanging impact, gives us energy and purpose.
Jesse: That’s great. Now on the personal side — you’re from Vietnam but have spent a bunch of time in the US, and I’m interested in getting my readers to better understand Southeast Asia. So what’s something you wish more people in the US knew about Vietnam?
Dzung: There are so many things! But most interesting to me is the huge growth potential here over the next decade. Over the last 10 to 20 years, the pace of change has been extraordinary — on GDP per capita, infrastructure and architecture, the emergence of a vibrant startup ecosystem, tons of investment capital flowing in. If you compare Indonesia and Vietnam, people always say Vietnam lags Indonesia by 3 years. But there are many elements, including regulations, broader economic efforts, and demographic makeup, that make me even more hopeful about Vietnam’s future. Whoever among your readers is interested in growth should take a hard look at SEA and Vietnam!
But most interesting to me is the huge growth potential here in Vietnam over the next decade.
Jesse: Wonderful, fantastic to hear. And what’s the best life advice you’ve ever received?
Dzung: Also so many things I want to share! My favorite advice comes from my advisor at Amherst, Ronald Tiersky. One day as we were discussing my career path, he said to me, “comparison to others is the root of all unhappiness in life.” That I should compare myself only to my past selves and revel in the progress I’ve made, but comparison to other people is inherently unhealthy. That was 14 years ago, and I find that wisdom to be true every day. In this day and age, it’s impossible to avoid comparison: Uber vs. Grab, McKinsey vs. BCG, whatever it is. So Ronald’s advice has helped me be less anxious, focus my mind on the problem at hand, and stay in a state of realistic optimism.
That I should compare myself only to my past selves and revel in the progress I’ve made, but comparison to other people is inherently unhealthy.
Jesse: I really like that advice too, it’s not something that is talked about often but I agree with you that it’s very important to stay grounded.
By the way, one thing I wanted to mention to you: when I interned at Payfazz last summer, I helped build a payroll advance service very similar to Nano! So I have a lot of respect for what you’re building now.
Dzung: That’s cool! I had actually had conversations with that team about launching that product, so I’m glad you had a hand in it.
Jesse: Definitely. Well it was great to catch up with you. Until next time!
Dzung: Cheers, Jesse.
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