015. APESFRAMED
Austria’s first female directing duo
First of all, what’s in the name, and how do I say it correctly?
M: You are saying it correctly (in English). During our shooting in the Alps we felt like these monkeys in Japan who sit in hot tubs when it’s snowing…
N: They are called macaques. You always see them on National Geographic.
M: We were thinking, … let’s take “apes” and then a connection to cinematography — framed — APESFRAMED.
N: We were talking about what it means to be human. A lot of times, animals are more human than humans. Us wanting to be more like apes; not thinking too much about who we are, just to be ourselves.
I know a little a bit of what you do from the work you have released so far, but if I didn’t know that before and just met you, trying to guess, I would say you are in an indie rock band or something.
M: Oh, that’s great (both laugh).
Is that important, that you are projecting a kind of “punk-rock” image?
M: We’d love if we achieved that. There’s a little bit of punk-rebellion inside of us. We say “hey, there are not just males out there, who can be bosses, directors, producers and filmmakers — who can be who they want to be and do whatever they want to do. We can do that too!”.
N: Honestly, we would love to have a band, but we’re not musical. We’re filmmakers. Why not make that cool?
Directors are mostly behind the camera, but you seem very comfortably in front of it, too?
N: That’s not our focus. But everything we do follows a certain aesthetic and vision.
Your “concept” of presenting yourselves as a directing duo, is that a message in itself, part of the image you want to project, as an inspiration to other female filmmakers?
N: Yes, most definitely.
M: We teamed up, so that our personal power “doubles” and to show other women, that they too can take a leading role. Being a woman in the film industry is not an easy topic.
N: Just for fun, we were browsing web pages of commercial production companies. Most of them didn’t have any female directors or camerawomen in their team lists. You will be very lucky to find one woman on there! We are trying to be a little bit louder and to say: “here we are, we exist!”. (Recommended article by Nicola)
N: Women and girls are often seen as some who need to be pretty and kind and whatnot. I came to a point in my life where I said “fuck being nice” and “fuck pretty”. I don’t think these are values. I’d rather be me.
M: We noticed, that teaming up and showing up at the production companies leaves a much stronger impression. Women who help each other out have the chance to break old and unwanted stereotypes.
N: And at least one of us can always play the bad cop now (laughs).
M: I feel like she has my back and I have hers. It feels much better.
Do you think the work you do as filmmakers will bring about any real change? What about holding workshops, talks or something like that?
N: Definitely. These things need to happen. I studied at the film academy (in Vienna) and one of my main issues with the school is that none of the directing- or cinematography teachers are women. Where are our role models?
I’d like it if we could be that for the next generation of female filmmakers. We get asked by girls who are just starting out, who want to intern with us, learn from us, already look up to us a little — it would be great to create a path for them.
M: Gender equality doesn’t mean that you have to kick out all the great guys…
N: …but to look a little bit harder, the women are there. If you look into a film school, it’s usually 50–50. Afterwards, in the “real life”, the females are no longer there. Somewhere along the way, they get lost.
M: The other day, we met representatives from He for She, they are organising a film festival in Vienna. We are helping out with that. Creating their trailer, passing on our network, possibly being on the panel. It’s a great cause.
This weekend, Tricky Women is happening. I went to one edition of the festival, and it didn’t feel excluding of men. I am guessing though, that in many other people’s world view, presenting a festival or concept as female, it can be seen as something targeted just for women.
N: I consume all these movies made by men, and I love them. Who says that content made by women would only be appealing to women? But sometimes it’s treated that way.
M: The work should be more important, than which gender is behind the camera.
You want to empower women and girls to get equal rights on the film set. What about the content? You have ideas for that too, maybe something like a manifesto?
N: You’re making great suggestions (laughs). On International Women’s Day, we started to release short clips on social media that showcase strong women in acting parts. On top of that we only used music by cool female acts (@Farcenoise + @HVOB_official). More light can be brought to all types of female art.
M: Merging our footage, we analysed that — subconsciously — we both put the female role in the spot light, gave her something to overcome, to grow into. We have always put her in the driving seat.
N: Subconsciously, you tell the stories as you wish to see them.
When you are on a film set together, how is the synergy between you?
M: Before we go on set, we are extremely well prepared, absorbing that specific topic, diving into that world. So when we film, we know exactly what we want and it just clicks.
N: The good thing is, we are extremely alike in taste. I’ve never met anyone with whom I have so much in common. But at the same time, our backgrounds differ. Martina has a background in graphic design and went to a film school in London. I was at the film academy in Vienna and did cinematography there. So I think if we had to split parts, I would move towards the camera and she keeps the editing in check.
M: I think there was one occasion in which we disagreed on set. I can barely remember, it was obviously not important (laughs).
You are currently doing commercials, music videos, documentaries. Do you have any preference as to which path you will follow in the future?
N: The documentaries we have done so far have been solo works from our past careers.
M: We only teamed up recently. There are so many great projects still to be done by the APES. When I studied, I only wanted to do documentaries. But I think music videos give you creative freedom like no other genre
Five years from now, what are you doing?
M: I hope we are still working together.
N: Me too.
M: But maybe a better office space, maybe a little less struggle.
N: Five years from now, I wish to have finished a feature length documentary.
M: Before I’m thirty I want to have our documentary in the cinema.
So documentaries seem to be a common goal for you.
N: Yeah, basically we had to hold off starting APESFRAMED a bit, because I did a show for ProSieben where I travelled the world and shot documentaries in countries like America and Myanmar. But now that APESFRAMED is born — we want to do that shit together.
M: Yeah.
N: Martina did a documentary with the BBC, didn’t you?
M: Yes, for that BBC documentary I worked as the cinematographer. I love that there is always so much to learn about the topic, the protagonists, the places in Spain, the cultures, the act of filmmaking. With all this a lot of own risk-taking and obstacles come with it.
N: If you want to make a film, there is always a way.
I want to ask about your piece called Petrichor.
N: Do you know what it means?
That’s exactly what I wanted to ask about.
M: The smell of rain. When the rain hits the asphalt. That’s petrichor.
N: Go on and google it, there is a huge thread online about petrichor. It’s a thing.
I first thought it was referring to a male Russian name.
N: We were trying to make a smell visual.
M: Capture that feeling when you are soaked to your skin, that creepy feeling, you just can’t shake it off. That you can’t escape from it, it goes under your skin, that sense. And as opposed to that, there is a sense of warmth, but it’s out of reach.
I think it’s heavy with emotions, but heavy in a good way. Rich images, very cinematic.
N: 90% of the production was done by the two of us & Jakob Carl Sauer, our cinematographer. The last 10% was realized with a very big team.
How much time do you spend on such a film?
It looks like you did a lot of location scouting.
N: Most of the location scouting had been done before. We found the house and the landscape by accident and said ‘we want to go back and do a project here’. MOTSA came along and we knew it would be a perfect fit.
Where are the mountains filmed?
N: In the Dreiländereck, where Austria, Slovenia and Italy meet.
M: It was the beginning of October, we were freezing… we spent four or five days in the Alps. A few more in Upper Austria and one day in a house in Vienna. But there was a lot of pre-production. And post (thanks Stefan Horninger).
N: The best thing that can happen is, when it looks simple afterwards. Easy going and free-flowing. If the feedback is “oh, it must have been a lot of work”, that is not a good sign. That’s the kind of compliment you would get if the whole film didn’t catch on an emotional level, you know?
The film has a very distinct style and mood. Is this a signature film coming from you, can one expect to see more films from you in the same style?
M: For every project we try to get out of our comfort zones and try something different, yet subconsciously we merge it with our signature style.
N: Even before we met. If I could choose one element to work with, it would be water. So would Martina. It’s a repetitive thing.
So we can agree that you have a signature visual style. Is there also a signature emotional mood in there?
N: Yeah… melancholy in everything I do…
M: (laughs) I don’t know… for the visual part, I would agree that this is us. But I’m not always melancholic.
For Petrichor then, I guess you were lucky, because of the rain and the fog?
M: Oh my God, we were looking at the weather reports like maniacs.
N: To find the right days to drive out to Italy. But even when it is actually raining is hard to capture that on camera without backlighting it immensely. Sun and rain at the same time would be the best for the image. We had to improve some shots digitally.
You want to be role models. But who are your role models?
N: Oh my God, this is my favourite thing I have seen on Instagram in a week. Miranda July! She posted a picture of her meeting Maren Ade. That is girl power explosion (laughs). Those two meeting each other and liking each other is my wet dream (laughs). What’s yours, Martina?
M: I do adore Patti Smith. She’s not a filmmaker, she’s just a very unique person and involved in a lot of topics. She stays the godmother of punk until she dies.
N: With Miranda July, she’s doing so much at the same time; she’s a writer, producer, filmmaker, actress, she’s just good at frickin’ everything. And so stylish. Did you know that she started this video tape club, where female artists would send VHS cassettes with their first movies…? And she did an app and all sorts of cool stuff.
And Maren Ade, I love her movies, her stuff is so unique. Toni Erdmann of course, but the one before is even better, Alle Anderen. Great screenwriter, amazing director. Pleeeease go and watch her!
M: I have one more female filmmaker/director, she was the first female director in Saudi Arabia, Haifaa al-Mansour, and she made the movie called Wadjda. It’s about a girl in Saudi Arabia who wants to ride a bicycle. The impact of the film made it possible for women to follow her example.
N: That film is on my top five list. You have to understand the circumstances. It’s not only that Haifaa Al Mansour made a movie, she made a great movie. Despite all the hardships involved.
M: For example, she could not be on the street on set but was directing from inside a van, using walkie talkies.
Given that you have a unique kind of setup and you have a strong message that you want to put out there, and you want to change things; such efforts normally bring out some nasty trolls, have you encountered this yet?
M: We’re lucky we haven’t encountered that yet. So far we’ve only received support, which is great.
N: If you step up for something, someone is going to oppose you, with whatever you do. That’s fine, as long as there is dialogue.
Is APESFRAMED now a full-time occupation?
M: Yeah, we see each other every single day…
N: (laughs)
M: We’re also friends and see each other on Friday nights as well. We leave the office at 8 PM, go for a drink, then we go to the same cinema (laughs)!
What secret projects do you have up your sleeves?
N: We developed a campaign for a product, in which we believe.
M: And two more music videos are in the making.
N: For me, there is still a documentary from Uganda I need to finish editing. She has her material from Kenya… There will be A LOT coming from the Apes.
Interview by Anders Khan-Bolin
