Real Homewood Neighborhood Conversation on Dead-ending Roads
Backstory
On Nextdoor, for Hollywood, I picked my lowest-cost proposal for improving streets and pitched it to them. I wanted to know how my neighbors felt about changes. This is the thread. I’ve anonymized everyone, except for myself.
The conversation thread with responses below
I’d like to propose we seek to dead-end the intersections on Ventura & 31 and Bonita & 31. I’ve been observing traffic over the past year and noticed a common shortcut through our neighborhood. Of course, the people using these “shortcuts” aren’t following all the rules of the road — rarely are they following any rules of the road. Thus, these dead-ends remove the shortcut. By removing the shortcuts, we remove the incentive for people to drive aggressively through our neighborhood.
I’ve attached 3 images to show the shortcuts that would be targeted for removal and the location of the dead-end.
Shows the proposed dead-ended roads. The dead-ends would allow for traffic to the commercial properties at those exits, but would not allow traffic into the neighborhood.
People use this shortcut to bypass two traffic slow downs — instead of going over the flyover to 280, they zoom down 31 to Ventura, hang a left through the neighborhood then turn onto 280.
People use this shortcut to bypass the malfunction at Hollywood & 31.
For drivers, traffic patterns are an economic decision about time. By implementing these dead-ends, we would remove time incentive to cut through our neighborhoods.
Cheers,
Chris
Response #1
So, add to the already awful congestion on Hollywood?
Response #2
While I certainly appreciate the time and thought that went into this proposal, I generally think this is a bad idea. It will only result in the Hollywood and 31 intersection (already heavily congested with the school traffic in the morning) becoming more congested. We all have to deal with people driving too fast on our streets and occasionally running stop signs. Doing something like this for the purpose of diverting a few bad actors at the expense of law abiding drivers is a bit short sighted in my humble opinion. Maybe there is another solution?
Response #3
I think it would definitely make a difference if we had police giving tickets for speeding, running stop signs and going the wrong way down a one-way street. If we had traffic cameras to enforce this, take a photo of the car tag when the car runs the stop sign, and then sends a ticket to the person at their house that would make a difference. We lived in California for a while and that was a very effective way of getting people to come to a complete stop.
I live at the stop sign at the corner of Poinciana near 280 and truly people do not stop at the stop sign, and there are two stop signs at this intersection.
All in all though, I really support the conversation of enforcing traffic laws in our neighborhood. I understand people are going to cut through, and I certainly don’t mind if they stop at stop signs and go the speed limit. They are driving through a neighborhood, and should expect neighborhood traffic including bicycles, runners, dogs, and especially children.
Response #4
Though I too have a dislike of folks cutting through Hollywood, I think it is more of a crime issue than traffic issue. However, selfishly, as a resident, I hate to lose my own convenience of Ventura to 31.
Plus, having the entire neighborhood exiting via Hollywood Blvd every morning and entering every afternoon seems like traffic will be even more contested on Hollywood Blvd.
I feel your pain!
Me responding to #2 and #4
Your thinking over-optimizes for time in your car and under-optimizes for time spent in your neighborhood. It optimizes for saving 45–50 seconds of time while continuing to punish neighborhoods. Instead of thinking of the 45–50 seconds that is saved on your commute, think of the delightful neighborhoods created by removing thru-traffic. Think of the dead-ends that would be created where families could setup basketball goals, kids ride bicycles, and have projects setup with neighborhood viewings of the Ironbowl (with beer). There are lots of potential for the dead-ends. We see thriving communities at dead-ends — look at English Cir or Laprado Cir or the dead-ended side of Bonita. It’s either that, or you save 45–50 seconds on your morning commute.
Re: enforcement — as for police enforcement versus infrastructure design changes, I’m in favor of infrastructure design changes. Police enforcement is only effective when the police staff is available and present and happens to be watching a particular intersection. The infrastructure design is permanent, lasting, affects all drivers, and affects multiple intersections. The proposal I made dead-ends 2 roads, improves 7 neighborhood intersections, and requires no additional salaries or pension costs of new police officers.
Re: Hollywood — As for the questions about Hollywood Blvd increasing traffic, I agree that traffic calming choices on streets push traffic to other streets. For that, we have to design our neighborhoods to make drivers behave the way we want them to behave. I have some recommendations for Hollywood. I’ve listed some options for Hollywood below from “easy” to “more complex”.
1. change the turn from 31 North onto Hollywood from a sweeping turn into a sharp right turn. The sweeping turn encourages drivers to continue at their highway 31 speeds onto Hollywood.
2. make the Shades Cahaba crosswalk on Hollywood a “raised crossing” like so: http://www.pedbikesafe.org/PEDSAFE/count...
3. add 2 additional “speed tables” between the school and 280: http://nacto.org/publication/urban-stree...
3. change the turn from Hollywood onto 280 from a sweeping turn into a hard right turn, which would slow down traffic.
4. Part of Hollywood’s problem with traffic comes from people cutting through to 280. Thus, remove the turn from Hollywood onto 280 from the Homewood direction. Continue to keep the Mountain Brook route open by having such a angle of a curb to allow that path, but prohibit cars from turning from Homewood direction. This would require entrance to 280 by going all the way north on HWY 31. Again, a 45 second disadvantage, but reduction of thru-traffic. I recognize how drastic this is, but it would do wonders for reducing thru-traffic.
Cheers,
Chris
Response #5
I live on Bonita between Malaga and Poinciana so I’m familiar with the people who come through in the morning trying to reach 31 more efficiently than using Hollywood Blvd. If we dead end Ventura and Bonita, how do those of us who live here deal with getting on 31 ourselves? We would add to an already over-burdened Hollywood Blvd. So, unless something is done on Hollywood, particularly near the school, to improve traffic flow, I don’t see this benefiting us.
Response #6
We agree with our fellow neighbors that this is not the best solution.
Response #7 from Local Council Lady
We are proceeding with a traffic study- I will make sure our Ward issues are illuminated! And I will update when I have info!
Response #8
I agree with Elizabeth. I live on the spanish side of Poinciana and use the Ventura access to 31 everyday. I agree there is a problem but we need to look at other suggestions to these problems.
Me responding to #5 and #8
For what it’s worth, “I use that” is not a good reason to keep something. This is my last post on this — I know folks are tired of hearing it; After this, I’ll let it die.
In my daily job, I build technical products for a living. I decide which features to keep and which features to axe. I make cost-benefit choices. Customers may use a product feature; but if that feature fails to provide the benefit it is intended or that feature is used incorrectly, it costs the company overall more in the long run with support, maintenance, and operations costs. Some customers would be impacted, but the axing of the product / feature improves the company as a whole.
It’s the same thing with those intersections. The cost of those intersections is a real cost. The costs are:
- people speeding & non-compliance at stop-signs, which ruins the playability of neighborhoods
- an adverse amount of traffic, which reduces housing prices
My biggest issue is that we don’t have control of our neighborhood streets as long as those intersections are open. When I was a 16, I was given a stern talking to by the next-door lady about speeding. However, on *our* neighborhood streets, we aren’t dealing with our neighbors.
While walking to work today, I clocked a lady doing 40mph at Poinciana & Bonita — she didn’t care. While out in my yard, I motioned for a person to stop at the stop sign they were running. The guy rolled down his window yelled some curse words, left, drove around the block, come back and yelled more curse words. Apparently, he didn’t have time to stop, but he had time to drive around the block and yell at people.
There is a real-cost associated with being on a cut-through street or a cut-through neighborhood. That real-cost is the inability to let kids ride bicycles on the road; it’s lower housing prices because people know of the traffic; it’s higher maintenance on roads not built for the car load.
Whether they recognize the costs or not, the citizens of Homewood are subsidizing cut-throughs all over the city. I would happily trade off 45 seconds on travel time to regain control of the neighborhood streets.
Response #9
We are on Rumson, a cut through to Lakeshore. Drivers going 35, 40 or even 50 mph is COMMON! I would.love to see more Dead Ends in Homewood so kids could safely play! The “inconvenience” would be well worth it!! In the meantime a stronger police presence would be welcomed!
Response #10
It’s out of control. I regularly yell at drivers. Even had my children yelling one afternoon.
Response #11
Thank you for starting this important conversation.
I live on Bonita. I would be far more supportive of aggressive speed humps or other physical plant measures between the stop signs than dead ending of the streets. I think speed humps would deter the speeders and the cut-through folks without interfering with my access to and egress to my own street, where I am happy to drive at the posted speeds.
And, I don’t think “I use that” is an invalid argument. I recognize that it is not an important argument for some of our neighbors, but one reason that we purchased in this wonderful neighborhood is the ease of access in all directions.
I genuinely look forward learning about the results of the traffic study that Response #7 from Local Council Lady mentioned above.
Response #12
Final post on this, one of the issues the city has with creating dead ends is Police Fire and EMT response times. When I lived on East Edgewood Dr we were told that restricting flow to and from Roseland would cause significant delays in response times. Homewood is not that big and adding 1 or 2 min response times on a percentage basis may be 100% or more.
Also, without a circle or some other “turn around” the people living at the end of the proposed dead ends have people pulling in their driveways to change direction.
I my opinion, the streets are simply not conducive to dead ends. Again, I’m all for slowing traffic and making the neighborhoods safer, but the negative impact of blocking these streets is substantial. As well as the cost of the infrastructure changes required to make this happen.
Finally, if the HPD were to give more tickets, which I am in favor of, how many of those tickets would be to residents of Hollywood vs those cutting through. Point being, most of us are guilty of becoming a little too comfortable driving through our neighborhood. We should all slow down and obey the traffic laws in Homewood.
Great conversation. Response #7 from Local Council Lady, we are all looking to you to find a solution. GO!!!!
Responding again- Local Council Lady
Just to add my voice to this, I live on Hollywood Boulevard, and we have plenty of issues with people running stop signs there as well. Additionally, while it may only be important to a few of us who live on that street, we already are seriously dinged in terms of home valuation just based on being on Hollywood Blvd and the perception of heavy traffic. If we funnel even more traffic onto the street for the sake of making the cul-de-sac areas less traffic-heavy, how does that benefit those of us who are already under traffic stress? I certainly see the benefit for the cul-de-sacs, but even with my house having a driveway on Malaga and no access to the road whatsoever on Hollywood, I’m told by realtors that my house is worth 100,000 less than anything comparable off the main road. I imagine that gap would only widen if we close more streets. As for the highway turns at 280, you might be talking about an increase in 45 seconds for traffic through Mtn. Brook Village at 10:30 am or 7PM, but you sure won’t have a mere 45 second add-on at 7:00 am or at 5 PM. Getting through MBV is already a nightmare at times, with traffic backing all the way up the hill to the Over Easy on occasion, and traffic near the on-ramp at the Zoo/Gardens also getting blocked due to back-ups.
I would love to see people obeying the traffic laws, and I have no problems with seeing a speed table at the elementary school to slow traffic there. I’ve even offered to bring coffee to a few police officers who have sat outside my house looking for people running the stop sign there. I would prefer, however, to see that sort of solution to the problem promoted over more closures and funnelling. Is that me being selfish? Sure. I’m a homeowner and a citizen, and I have a stake in both my own well-being and the community’s. Nevertheless, I’d rather not have the problem on Hollywood further exacerbated.
I am adding an entire bullet point to bring to the Police Chief and the City about Ventura Ventura Ventura! It is high up on my priority list! I spent some time last week with <person>, <person>, Chris Winslett and <person>. I know we need to slow traffic down there- I have a list of measures to introduce: stop sign ahead signs, bringing in the portable radar reader (like on Saulter), asking for more patrolling. This will be a priority for me!
Response #12
I’ve lived at the corner of <street> and <street> for over 25 years. People drive through the stop signs like they don’t exist and drive through the residential streets at up to 50 mph. I would love to see speed humps all through the neighborhood, including Hollywood Blvd. I know they are an inconvenience but they would definitely slow people down (and if we are lucky, make them choose an alternate route). My other concern is the large trucks that use Hollywood to cut through to 280 or Mtn Brook Village instead of going down to Lakeshore. There used to be a sign designating Hollywood Boulevard as being for local deliveries only but that is definitely not the way it is being used now (I have literally seen 18 wheeler trucks driving by my house). A lot of these trucks are not local delivery. I doubt most of the people using Hollywood as a cut through really care what impact the traffic has on our neighborhood. A couple of people (not residents) have been so bold as to tell me that. I think it is up to our city to take action in the form of speed humps, police enforcement, etc. to keep our neighborhoods safe and maintain our community and property values. The traffic issues are only going to increase as more and more developments are built south of us and as retail development in Homewood and Mountain Brook Village continues to increase. I’m glad to hear that traffic studies are in the works!
