Mario Cuomo: Rock God for a New Age

A conversation with The Orwells frontman Mario Cuomo about dropping out, groupie fatigue, and shitting in the same toilet as your idols

By Katie Ingegneri

Photography by Daniel Topete

Part 2 of 2

(Part 1: Rock n Roll Saviors: The Orwells)

At just 21 years old, Mario Cuomo is already making a reputation as one of the most compelling and wild live rock performers in recent memory. As the frontman of the Orwells, a band he’s been part of for 5 years since high school in Elmhurst, Illinois (which he dropped out of to pursue his music dreams), he’s been capturing the imagination of a world ever hungry for rock gods, their talent and debauchery. But deep down, he’s still just a sweet Midwestern kid figuring it all out.

Mario and I spoke before the first of two nights of sold-out shows The Orwells played at Lincoln Hall in Chicago, December 30 and 31, 2014, after the year that made the world start to notice this group of American kids and their brand of sweaty, sexy, messy rock n roll.

How I Met Mario

I kept missing the Orwells’ local Chicago concerts all year, to my frustration, shows at Reckless Records during my regular work day, or at festivals like Riot Fest that I didn’t have interest in going to except to see them. So when I heard they were playing 2 nights at Lincoln Hall for New Year’s Eve, I decided pretty quickly that that’s how I would be ringing in 2015.

I friended Mario on Facebook not long after I became enamored with the band — a practice I’ve adopted of trying to connect with people whose art I enjoy. I liked seeing the kind of music he would post, including a lot of talented female performers like indie queen Angel Olsen, alternating with his statuses about girls and getting wasted. I planned to see Angel Olsen perform at Thalia Hall at the end of November and wondered if Mario would be going to her show if he wasn’t on tour. The day of her concert, he put up a status asking if people were going to the Har Mar Superstar show that night at the Double Door. I commented saying Angel Olsen was playing at Thalia Hall and didn’t really expect anything else.

Later, to my amazement, I got a private message from him asking what time her show was starting. Although he said he really wanted to see her, he said he was in the mood to have a party night with Har Mar instead of going to Angel Olsen, where “I’d prolly just start crying if I saw her.” I mentioned that I’d like to interview him sometime around the two nights of Lincoln Hall shows on December 30 and 31, and he said he’d be down. He gave me his number and I fangirled out a little in my head (oh my god I get to have the phone number of someone in one of my favorite bands!) and we texted more the day of the first show.

I was pretty nervous before the interview to talk to Mario. I had to keep reminding myself that he had just turned 21, and I was 27 now — a “real adult,” or something. And I interviewed Sonic Youth’s Thurston Moore when I was in graduate school at Naropa University, almost 4 years ago now. But while Thurston has decades of indie cultural cred, I hadn’t been overly familiar with him prior to our interview (a real ignorance is bliss situation as I may not have been able to speak otherwise), whereas I had been listening to this kid Mario sing all year, and for us rock n roll kids, that can lead to some serious idolizing. I texted one of my best friends for support, the former college girlfriend of a popular indie band’s bassist, and she reminded me that they’re just regular people, which I knew was true.

I met Mario in the bar of Lincoln Hall before the show on December 30. I got to the venue, texted him and sat for a bit, having no idea how I was going to get to him when he suddenly appeared — an eye-catching presence, with chin-length light blonde hair pinned back on one side by a black barrette, exuding a guarded but friendly aura. He had a friend with him and we ended up in a semi-private booth, which was really the perfect setting for such an interview. I put my iPhone recorder on the table and prayed it would pick up the whole conversation. His friend left after about 15 minutes and it was after that that Mario really opened up.

On stage, he gets panties flung at him, makes out with fans and channels the energy of the crowd into something approaching frenzy. A punk shaman, the latter-day Jim Morrison—whipping around his mass of blonde hair, swinging the microphone, staggering, growling, screaming. But like most notable performers, Mario is rather quiet and thoughtful in person. He insists he’s not as wild (or no longer as wild) as his on-stage and online persona would imply, which also reveals how adept he is at weaving the mythology of the rock star in the age of social media.

We talked about his deep appreciation for female musicians (he may in fact be Angel Olsen’s biggest fan), all the work that goes into creating a decent piece of art, the insidious negativity of Internet commenters, and learning the hard way why “more songs are written about one girl than five girls.” For all the youthful sexual energy he channels, it seems that having every girl in the world doesn’t matter to him if he can’t catch the eye of the one he truly wants. Mario may have a Dionysian image to maintain, but barely concealed below the surface is a sensitive kid, just like any and every artist, struggling with adoration and insecurity in a world that wants more and more pieces of him.

During our interview and the two Lincoln Hall shows, he wore a black jacket with a safety pinned image of Iggy & the Stooges’ Raw Power cover on the back, one of his biggest inspirations. He understands the mythology, style and energy that goes into being the frontman of a rock band. Having dropped out of high school his senior year to pursue his music dreams, he’s had to prove that he has what it takes, learning as he goes along — but the benefit to starting early is that he seems like a natural on-stage, now that everyone is starting to take notice.

Mario is already catching the eyes of the world and the music industry. He was recently tapped by James Williamson, former guitarist of the Stooges, to record on an album of new Stooges recordings with many rock luminaries as guest vocalists. Mario’s version of “I’m Sick Of You” is one of the best showcases of his vocal talents, simultaneously evoking the likes of Jim Morrison in the quiet parts while highlighting his skills as a rock singer, the side of him we’ve seen more with the Orwells. It shows that his abilities are far from limited to only certain kinds of rock n roll and offers serious hope for the range of styles the Orwells could pursue in the future.

Mario generously spoke to me for over an hour—pretty much all transcribed verbatim below—until his friends from Elmhurst, opening act The Symposium, started playing. (Those guys are awesome.) As we sat in the Lincoln Hall bar, he was greeted by now-famous Orwells superfan Eric Kolkey, cousins and fans, and easily acquiesced to requests for pictures before disappearing into the hall.

This is a conversation more than any sort of “media interview.” In the interests of rock n roll, authenticity and metamodernism, it has been only minimally edited.

A Conversation with Mario Cuomo

Katie Ingegneri: So how’s your year going?

Mario Cuomo: Pretty good. Uh, the last one? The last one that we just had?

Yeah, 2014.

I would say all good, you know. Nothing really bad happened to me. So many bad things could happen to you every day. I didn’t get hit by any cars or anything — so, positive.

You guys played on Letterman, you had your music in an Apple ad. You were on Letterman twice, right? Was that all this year?

Ah…I dunno, there were probably some festivals or something, good times at Bonnaroo — (friend interjects “you played Lolla, right?” “No, that was two years ago…why don’t you just shut the fuck up, send you to Fiesta Mexicana.”)

You did Riot Fest, right?

Yeah we went to Japan for the first time, Riot Fest, did a full European tour for the first time, did a bunch of fuckin’ places I’d never heard of…

Did you have a favorite?

I probably had the best time in Japan, but my favorite new place would probably be like, Spain.

You guys are all over the place, everyone’s talking about you, got Rainn Wilson tweetin’ about you…

Friend: Brian Wilson?

Katie & Mario: Rainn Wilson!

Brian Wilson, that would be cool, I don’t know if he’s on Twitter though…

Not as cool as Rainn Wilson. The dude from “Boy Meets World,” he likes us…that was a big one for me.

So is everyone in your hometown like super jealous?

I was at a bar two days ago or something, and this kid literally said like, I used to fucking hate you dude, but now I really respect what you’re doing. And if I wasn’t super fucked up I’d be like what the fuck, get the fuck out of here, but I was shitfaced so I was like whatever, thanks man.

Did you think you were gonna blow up this big this quickly?

It’s hard to gauge now that it’s been like a slow process, but I’d say we’ve already surpassed what I wanted out of it. Going into it I was like, if we could do 200 [people] in every city, that would be the best. But now I’m getting all greedy and shit, I want more and more and more.

How long have you been a singer?

I dunno, maybe…little middle school projects I tried to be a singer. So first time, 7th or 8th grade.

Did you always want to be a rock star?

No, I wanted to be a skateboarder. Those were real rock stars.

Do you still skate?

Yeah, when I can. I’m being a lazy ass.

So who are your biggest inspirations as a front man?

As a front man? There’s like, obvious ones, but there’s also less obvious ones like Mickey Avalon, like super sexual dirty boys.

I could see that.

Karen O.

You talked about the Runaways before…

Yeah, I’d throw her in there too. I’m definitely trying to like, steal her shit.

You remind me of a combination of a lot of people.

I try to steal from a lot…if you steal from a bunch of stuff, nobody will know what you’re stealing from. Just pick and choose. Like a character in a video game. Changing the hair, changing the shirt until you’re like “that looks cool.”

You recorded that song with James Williamson, Iggy and the Stooges’ guitarist…that was cool.

Yeah, I got to see them a few years ago and it was one of the craziest shows I’ve ever seen. It was at the Riviera, and I got this shirt that got way too small for me so I just cut it up and got some safety pins and made it into a little arts & crafts jacket. But yeah, I never thought that one of the dudes that made one of the most influential things on me, when I was in the heat of my most pissed off at being in high school, this album was one of my most listened to. This album specifically — Raw Power.

I listened to Iggy’s version of “I’m Sick of You” and I like your version better.

Yeah, I was pretty scared though, cause I kept putting stuff off, being like I’m in LA, I’m gonna get my own hotel room and I’m gonna live it up, and I woke up the next day and I’m playing the song through my phone in my hotel room while I’m waiting to get picked up, I’d never even heard it…and I was just like oh shit. I was like this song is long as fuck! Does he expect me to remember all these words and shit? But he had the lyrics printed out and everything so that was a big sigh of relief…He was very soft and kind, so it made me relax a lot.

Where did you record it?

It was a suburb of Hollywood…it starts with a B. Maybe it was Burbank. And it was a real go in, do it, done, got some meatballs after. They had the track already done so I just had to come in and do the words, it worked out good enough to make it.

Your voice kinda reminds me of Jim Morrison on that (Mario and friend look vaguely shocked and impressed and we all start laughing), a little more gravitas I think than Iggy’s voice actually.

Well that’s sweet, thank you.

You’re welcome. And I mean, you’ve got the Robert Plant kind of hair…

Yeah, gotta get the abs, you know?

So by being your Facebook friend, you’ve been turning me onto all these bands, like The Symposium, The Walters, all that stuff. Do you think there’s some sort of Chicago renaissance?

I think it’s the burbs kids coming to the city and killing it. Infiltrating the city limits. That’s alright, they can move down here and become Chicago kids and help the city start something.

Like no one can afford to live in New York anymore, it’s not the 70s. Maybe Chicago will be the next big music city. Unless you guys defect to LA or something.

Nah, I might just go back to the burbs.

Back to Elmhurst?

Naw, maybe just right next to it. It’s cheaper.

I’m super psyched to see both of these shows, I kept missing all your shows this year. So it’s Symposium and Criminal Hygiene tonight, and Springtime Carnivore tomorrow…

Yeah, that’s tomorrow night. She [Greta Morgan] used to be in a band called the Hush Sound, then she started another band called Gold Motel, so this is her new thing. She’s an amazing songwriter. She actually got us our first show ever, and it was at the SubT, and she gave us like 12 minutes out of her set to give us a little slot. So I’d never sang in front of a venue or anything, and it was like 300 people, sold out, and I was so scared. That was the day Congratulations came out. We were driving down to the city, and it was the shittiest day, and we were bumping that, the song “Congratulations” and I was like, I’ll always remember that. Just hearing that, looking out at the city, it was the shittiest day, just rain and shit, going to our first sold-out show ever that we’d ever played but nobody knew who we were, we were little-ass kids. We had teachers that came out to see us and shit.

I’m super into all these garage-rock revival bands. It’s like when I heard the Strokes for the first time when I was like 12 years old…when I heard “Last Nite.” “Who Needs You” is like the new “Last Nite,” at least I think.

Well, let’s hope so.

Certainly one of my favorites of the year. Are your parents proud of you?

They’re proud as shit. They’re coming out tonight, so they can sit there and be proud, have a drink and look at what they created with their love.

Do they care that you dropped out of school and everything?

They cared for a second…

But you showed them…

I guess so, if this is what showing them is, then sure did.

What’s next? What do you think is next?

I don’t really know, is this where the downward spiral starts?

I hope not.

Yeah, me neither. I’m not sure. I really have no idea. I think that’s a good way to be. We’ve had goals before as a band and once you do them…that might not be a good thing, you know, cause then what’s the new goal. I’d rather not have them. I don’t know…it’s kinda cheesy but I thought it would be cool to bring a rock band back to the VMAs. There was something so cool about when bands like Nirvana had music videos playing all day, and it’s not totally fucking insane to think that would be possible to do again. They played our fucking video on something like Sucker Free video countdown, some 4 am video countdown…that’d be dope, to have our video in a top 10 countdown, with Rick Ross’s fat ass.

Well my cousins make music videos, so you should hit them up if you’re ever looking…

Are they good?

Yeah, they did a recent Foster the People one that got 8 million hits or whatever.

See that sounds pretty expensive, to have them work for you, work with you.

Well they started out doing small bands like alt-J…

(general laughter and mocking from the table)…oh yeah small bands!

Back when they were small!

Well look at them now! We’re actually label-mates with them, isn’t that strange? Isn’t that strange?

That is strange.

I find that strange now. They do so well! Maybe that’s what I’ll try to be next. I’ll try to be alt-J next.

I dunno, their second album was kind of boring. I’m sure you guys can keep it more interesting.

That’s what you gotta do, if you wanna appeal to the masses, you gotta be boring as hell! But you said they were boring, I didn’t say shit. But it’s definitely like, to reach that many people you gotta have like soccer moms and grandpas snapping their fingers to it, and there’s nothing wrong with that. We’ll get there.

Yeah, definitely. So have you met like, Julian Casablancas yet?

No. But I got this pin. (shows me Strokes pin on his jacket) We were in a show and Nick Valensi came out to see the opening band cause they were friends with them, but no, didn’t approach him or anything…cause what do you say to them? I’m not like a guitarist or anything — I think Grant went up to him and was like “grew up on your music, man” and he was like “that makes me feel real old.” And I was like “that’s why you don’t go up to them, you make the guy feel old” — you don’t wanna do that, make your idol sad for a little bit.

So who would you like to meet or collaborate with?

Just meet? Cause collabs are tough with rock n roll. It’s super fucking hard for that to go down well. But just meet? I’d meet Ty Segall, just have a beer with him or something. Collab? Like I would seriously be down for some goofy shit. My little brother likes some pretty goofy stuff… [friend leaves the booth]

I came home one day from a tour and he was like “you gotta see this video, it’s so cool, it’s such a good song — it’s called ‘Tip Toe Wing in my Jawwdinz,’ it’s by Riff Raff. And I was like okay, I’ll sit here and watch it, so I sat down and watched the song and this guy’s actually cool as shit, but if it wasn’t for like my little brother’s goofy taste in music you know I would’ve totally wrote that guy off. Like who’s this goofy dude. But I thought the song was dope and the video was hilarious but still super cool, then I was just sitting there watching interviews with him all day, he’s just hilarious and cool. I saw something where he was like “my next album’s gonna be a rock album” and he just released a single that’s like a punk song and it’s not bad, and it’s like it’s cool that he’s just doing that, it takes some big-ass balls. You’re this successful rapper and people like you, and gonna do a rock album because that’s what’s gonna make him happy. You know the next tour he’s gonna have guitars on stage and be super happy. So fuck everybody that loves you, cause you gotta keep yourself happy first.

Yeah, definitely. And you went up on stage when Har Mar Superstar was here, right? Did you get to sing with him on a song — I only saw a picture.

Yeah he played a song that only had like two words in it so it was easy to sing along to. I was stage left and Macaulay Culkin was stage right…it was fun, we were trashed on tequila and Tecate, and [Har Mar] is the nicest guy…he has my favorite voice. I mean, I’m a sucker for female voices, but I think he’s my favorite male voice. And he’s like the nicest fucking guy.

So did they just pull you out of the crowd?

No, I hit him up cause I wanted to go to the show, cause I saw he was in Chicago. I woke up all hungover and it was like 3 pm and somebody was like “that show’s today” and I was like “no way, no way” and I messaged him on Twitter really quick — which is like the only time Twitter has helped me in my whole fuckin’ life. And then I messaged him like “yo I see you’re in Chicago, I hate to be that guy but like can I get on the list” so then he put me on it and when I got there he was outside, I was having a cigarette before I went in cause I got there pretty early, then he walked outside to smoke and I was like “what’s up man” and he handed me a backstage pass, “just come drink with us.” I shot the shit and got drunk with him and his brother and his other bandmates, and ate some pizza and it was a really, really fun night. I find it’s starting to get harder for me to enjoy going out to shows.

But I really wanted to see Angel Olsen that night cause I heard she was also in town. I was torn, cause I wanted to see her forever. Cause there was one day on tour where I was listening to her Spotify over and over, like cycled through maybe three or four times, and I was convinced it was the most beautiful voice I’ve ever heard. I was like fuck, I’m already going to Har Mar so I knew it was going to be more of a party night, cause I wanted to party anyways, but then I know if I went to see her I’d just be crying by myself. If it was like a Tuesday night maybe I would’ve got whiskey drunk and went to see her, but I would be standing by myself and I would be fucking tearing up, and then, you know, where’s my night gonna go from there — it would just get sadder. So I think I made the right decision and I had a blast. I forgot about how beautiful her voice was for one night.

Yeah, her show was pretty fuckin’ awesome.

You were there?

Yeah, we were messaging about it.

Oh right right, I knew that was somebody — it was you. Yeah, I would’ve just started fucking bawling…she makes me cry too much.

I mean, she looked beautiful…

You’re making me jealous.

I know, I was like…if I were attracted to women, it would be her.

She is stunning.

She’s unbelievable. She should come back, for sure. But you probably made the right call. And I mean, you got that video of Maculay Culkin…

Yeah NME’s just taking my shit and posting it, did you see that? They took my cellphone video, like they had a fucking recorder spy in the crowd…I mean, whatever, they did say it was my video. Like “from his Facebook page.” I was like what the fuck. Maybe it’s time I make it a fan page. Can you do that, can you like convert a regular page to a fan page?

You might have to make a new one.

Gonna have to hit up Suckerberg…Zuckerberg? I never saw that movie. I saw the Jobs movie…

Did you like it?

Naw, it was kinda goofy.

Ashton Kutcher as Steve Jobs…yeah, so you got that Apple ad, that was crazy.

Yeah, right? Like all of a sudden you’re so valid to all these people you knew your whole life.

That must be pretty, like…satisfying.

Yeah, it’s nice to get blasted by people you didn’t think gave a shit about you. And they probably still don’t.

Yeah, I mean, you’re the famous one now.

Right. Right.

I was watching the “Who Needs You” video again on YouTube and now it has all these like conservative YouTube comments…

“Apple brought me here.” I can never read that shit. That’s like the biggest waste of time ever. From not even critics. It’s one thing to read a Rolling Stone review or some shit like that, but to just read some fat asshole’s comment on your YouTube video who’s probably just like sweating and getting fucking Dorito crumbs on his keyboard. I can’t read that shit.

Yeah, fuck it. I love that video though.

Yeah, it’s pretty good, right? We did it at the Congress Theater, rented it out for a day.

Are you guys making more videos?

We have like a retarded amount of videos for songs on the album right now, like a shitload, maybe like 8 or some crazy shit, so I would say we’re waiting for the next single on the next album and then go from there.

So 2015, pretty psyched to ring in with a couple shows here…

Pretty stoked about that. All the little kids tonight. I hope there’s a lot of little kids, with their parents’ cash.

Is this an all-ages?

Yeah, tonight is all ages. Yeah, I’m stoked. Tomorrow should be a lot of champagne, schmoozin’, a lot of love. I mean, it’s nice that we get to be a New Year’s show, that almost sounds like a joke to me. Like that’s something to do. Like I was on my way to the DMV this morning to get a new ID cause mine was expired — never gonna get my license though, fuck that, can’t waste all that time — I was getting a new ID and on the radio they were saying we were one of the things to do in Chicago on New Year’s. I was like, I can’t believe somebody thinks that’s gonna be a good New Year’s. Like, joke’s on them. But no, it should probably be fun, it’s still kind of funny that people think that we’re that legit.

When you were younger it was just like house parties, garages and stuff…

Basements, garages with the door closed…

Now you’re big time rock stars.

Big time! Yeah, I guess.

It’s very surreal cause when I was a kid the Strokes were out and I was so obsessed with them, and now they’re like old and married and all this shit…and now I’m like, the old one.

I was so pumped for them, always waiting for the Angles leak…then when it finally came out, me and that kid that was right there, we just snorted a shit load of Adderall and tried to write down the lyrics for it before anybody posted it for what the songs were…we were just sitting there geeked up on fuckin’ government cocaine and trying to write out all the shit. I loved it. I still love that album. And then I just walked, a lot — I put on my headphones and listened to it on repeat. Just go on a long walk, all amphetamined out. It sounded so good. Yeah, I still like it.

So were they one of your earliest inspirations to be a musician?

I’d be lying if I didn’t say the only time I tried singing was along to Is This It in my room, trying to hit all the notes like he was. And then I could kinda hear that I could maybe do something with that. So when I got the chance to try to, you know, I was pretty stoked about that.

Were you into Nirvana and stuff? Garage punk, whatever?

Yeah, mainly like Black Lips…we were like little kids at the Black Lips shows in Logan Square, putting our CD on their van — “maybe they’ll tell their label about us.” And then you become a band and then you realize the bands you gave your fuckin’ CD to never listen to it.

Do you get a lot of kids giving you stuff?

Yeah, and I’m the shitty asshole now who always forgets about it. I still have one in my room from some kid in like fuckin’ New Jersey. I’m gonna listen to it though you know cause I’m gonna turn it around. I can’t just do what they did to me, you know.

Waitress: One of the tables wanted to buy you a drink, what would you like?

Jim Beam on the rocks. And tell them I said thank you! What was I talking about?

Listening to kids’ CDs now that you’re the big rock star.

Yeah, like as a kid you don’t understand — like what do you think they could do for you? It’s like the Black Lips, the first 10 years of their career they’re broke as fuck, learning their instruments on the way and sleeping on a fucking doorstep. They were actual gods to us and like what, you’re gonna give them your CD and they’re gonna give you a record deal? You don’t understand when you’re that young that this band is still trying to get by.

Waitress: You’re 21, right?

Yeah. But you just don’t know, cause you’re a kid and all you believe in is great songs, and you think you just get money, you just picture stacks of cash and everybody loving you, making out with random girls, and like half of that is true except the money part.

Yeah, you picture like Led Zeppelin’s…sex jets.

Yeah, cause you’re a little kid, you’re thinking about blow jobs or something all day. You’re like whoa, you can make music and people will just like you for that? And you don’t actually have to be like, a person. Which I mean to some extent is true, kinda fucked up.

Well, it seems like you try to give a shit about people, so that’s cool…

Yeah, I’m not that cocksucker yet. Still got time though.

I hope you keep that mentality and don’t become a giant asshole down the line.

[laughs] Yeah. Maybe that’s what’ll happen in 2015. I’ll become a gaping asshole. Maybe that should be my goal. Assholes seem to do well.

They do. They do.

I think you gotta get this huge fuckin’ head and then just fall back down.

Let it deflate.

I order a Bombay Sapphire & tonic.

Which is one is Bombay, is that the blue juice? Or is it just a blue bottle? Oh, I thought that was blue juice. You like gin? I had like a gin week.

I’m from Boston, so it’s like a thing.

Is that like a thing there?

You know like, WASP-y country clubs…

I know clam chowder and Ben Affleck, that’s about it. I don’t even know if he’s from there. That movie The Town, is that Boston?

Yup, that is.

That shit’s badass. I guess I do think Boston is badass, cause I like The Town.

And The Departed, did you see that?

Yeah, definitely. Good flicks there in Boston.

Have you played there? I’m sure you’ve played there.

Yeah, we’ve played at…fuck, could you name a couple places. It’s always in Allston.

Oh okay, that makes sense.

I dunno, is that where kids go to school?

Yeah, it’s like the only place that young people can still afford to live, so it’s like college kids and young people.

A bunch of kids go to music school out there.

Yeah, there’s Berklee School of Music, where everyone drops out of if they want to become a rock star.

Right, they shouldn’t have even went there to begin with. Those kooky kids.

And you live in Bucktown now?

Yup, with all the other white people. They love to jog.

Do you live with any of the other guys in the band?

No, I live with two totally chill kids from high school, like one I used to play traveling soccer with when I was athletic…

In your jock days.

Yeah, my jock days. It’s a long story but I used to like soccer a lot. Then I stopped thinking shorts and shinguards looked cool on men. I was like wait why do I like when we scrimage the chicks so much? Why do I like practice way more when they’re on the other side of the field? Then I was like wait why don’t I just do something where half of the reason people get into it is to do that.

To do what?

To like, chase chicks. But then you get into rock n roll music and you realize chicks only like rappers and DJs!

Really?

The year’s 20-whatever…

I don’t think that’s the case.

I think it’s true. I think all the smart girls like our band, so they all wanna talk to me.

Yeah. That’s…accurate.

But it would be too easy if everybody came to our shows on Ecstasy and they just wanted to touch my hair. Maybe I’ll be a DJ next year.

I dunno, you’d probably get more girls as a lead singer.

Well, gotta keep at it! No, I really don’t care about that anymore.

About getting girls?

Yeah, I’ve quickly realized why that’s not actually like, the best part.

Cause it’s just kind of meaningless after a while?

Yeah. If there was a word that meant more meaningless than meaningless…I would say that word right now.

Yeah, just like…devoid of feeling. But all your songs are very much like sex, drugs and rock n roll…

Yeah, cause I haven’t wrote some new lyrics in a while. Nah, I still got some in my phone. But I dunno, there’s a reason why more songs are written about one girl than five girls. I wish I kinda knew that already, and didn’t have to learn it myself.

It’s probably all part of the rock star’s journey.

I guess…I dunno, it’s a dying breed.

Well it’s like MGMT, you know, their first album was like get some models for wives, we’re gonna be rock stars…

What a bunch of badasses, those two. I saw them in New York on accident, I went to some hip New York bar and I was outside, and I just looked over and I saw them and I just had the biggest smile that took over my face, and they just smiled at me, and we just smiled at each other…and then I was like, that was enough. It was another situation like, what do you say to these people. I’m sure our songs do the same for some kids that their songs did for me. Their songs got me through so many days…it was just nice to see them. That’s actually super creepy. All I wanted was to smile at them.

Yeah, that’s awesome. I saw them in Boston and the crowd was ridiculous, it was so many bros and they only knew the really popular songs…

Yeah, I love that they play “Siberian Breaks” at every show. It’s like 15 fucking minutes long, I’m sure there’s a shitload of people that don’t recognize what a fucking masterpiece that song is.

Yeah, I love that song. All their psychedelic fuckin’ trippy songs.

Yeah it’s weird that I love that shit so much cause I usually hate trippy psych-rock bullshit, I really don’t care about that too much, but something about how they do it I just love so much. Yeah, those two fuckin’ guys. So cool.

So who else would like to meet or see or whatever? Your biggest idols these days?

Individual who had the most influence on me in wanting to become some sort of musician or whatever would be Tyler, the Creator. That was like in high school, that’s the only shit I would listen to. I think when I first heard Goblin, I was listening to it all day, every class, over and over, just would not acknowledge that I was in a class. I was taking too many amphetamines at the time but I was like no shit…they’d be literally taking out my headphones and I’d be like no, you don’t understand how important this is right now…he was just speaking to me. He was cutting class to record songs and now the whole world gives a shit about him. And I was like why the hell would I not do that. It made no sense that they were like, no you can’t listen to that song right now, there’s a class going on. It’s like no, this is so important right now, at this fucking moment in this classroom. I have to keep listening to this. Until they would try to take my iPod and I would just have to leave, just walk.

I was spending so much time hiding in the library and walking in the halls and avoiding confrontation…or leaving school, it was just so repetitive and I was just like, it had to be done. I had to leave forever. There was no other way my life was going to work out the way I wanted it to. I was telling my counselors just straight up like “let me try, I’m gonna try real hard…” I was like, so serious, cause I was a little serious-ass kid. “I don’t care if I die next to a garbage can.” I was telling her sick shit, like “I don’t care, I just want to try so badly I’ll die on the street.” She was the sweetest lady, she was pregnant and she said she was going to tell her baby about me. She was really sweet and she helped me cheat the system a lot, and I had to tell some teachers to get the ok for me to drop out. We had just gotten signed to a small label. Originally the plan was to go out to LA and do it out there, and then all these labels came out to Chicago to see us here. So then it kinda fucked with that, cause then there goes my California dream. Your dream just came to you. So now I’m just gonna keep rotting.

So when did you drop out, your senior year?

Yeah, halfway through. It was the same week I signed the signature for our first album, I did the papers….cause that’s just proof right there, you get a small label, this is how you hear it happens. That’s when I realized it was all possible cause it was sitting right in front of me. I thought everyone was so crazy that they didn’t think it was so possible. Like, that’s nuts, you can’t just go to California and do music, you know how many people try to do that? And I was like yeah, it sounds pretty crazy but like, these people who are based there really think that we’re okay, and then, you know, other people thought we’re okay too. And then we did that album with them, and then big giants, big giant old white men, with big stacks of money in their pockets…

They came and found ya.

Naw, they love us, they’re all interested.

So what do you think is different about you guys, that so many other bands try and fail…

Nothing.

Nothing?

Nothing. Uh, we try, and now we’re alright. Everybody should try, you know. Give it a try. But uh, I think we’re a regular rock n roll band that has things looking up for them. And I don’t know why, we’re a regular-ass rock n roll band, we make rock n roll music and nothing really separates us from other people doing the same thing, but I think that’s fine. Like a lot of critics and stuff saying like, “it’s not groundbreaking,” it’s like no shit, it’s rock n roll music. 5 kids trying to make rock n roll songs. When did that become so uncool that you can’t review it as that, like it can’t just be looked upon as good rock n roll music.

You know, it’s seriously getting too fucking crazy — like you can’t be renowned unless you’re this crazy fuckin’ thing with this weird-ass name, from a weird place. Maybe that’s why like, the Replacements never…you know, they deserved it, they busted their ass but they’re just some white Midwest dudes making rock n roll, when’s the last time that shit worked out, [Cheap] Trick and stuff?

Unless you have a certain demographic, like I guess there’s Fall Out Boy and shit, but that was all like fucking emo kids. At our show maybe there’s a few kids wearing black eyeliner — hopefully, yeah, that’s fine, but they’re not all in the same thing from Hot Topic, they don’t feel like a breed of people. Our shows, half the people have fuckin’ kids, and half the people are their kids, and it’s just crazy, it’s not just like a breed. You see a bunch of Fall Out Boy fans or whatever, that looks like a clique from high school. And that’s not the case with us at all.

Yeah, you guys have more of a broad appeal with your sound…

Which I’m super fortunate about, cause you know it’s real easy to be like the hip band and your fans are too good for their own shit, and then they forget about you real quick because some super important blog found the new thing and there goes all your fans because you were only the new thing. I don’t even want to be called a “new band” anymore, like up-and-coming Chicago band. We’ve been playing shows in the city now for a few years, so we could just be a band, you know…

Yeah, I mean this was your second album.

Yeah, and before that we made two other albums that were never picked up, they were like training albums. To figure out how the fuck you do this, how you make a record, and that’s really the secret—to make a record, you just make records. So I don’t know, the answer’s within the fucking question. Try to make a piece, and that piece’ll probably be kinda shitty, well, your next one probably won’t be that shitty, and then you just build on this pile of shit that you’ve created until one of em shines a little bit to somebody else. But I dunno. That’s just now. That’s just how it is now. Who knows.

David Letterman really seemed to like you guys.

Yeah, I dunno…I think he was just so fuckin’ bored. He was probably just bored as shit all week, with people playing on laptops, he probably forgot that instruments existed. I heard that week was slow, maybe some acoustic acts or something. Maybe we were just fortunate to catch him at that time. Maybe if we played after the Foo Fighters had a, what’s it called, a residency there, and he was seeing guitars and basses and drums all week, maybe he wouldn’t have been so excited.

I heard he likes interesting rock bands, I guess.

He seems like a cool dude though.

Everyone really talked about your first performance there. That probably helped you get a lot of attention.

Yeah, I just wanted to fuck it up a little bit.

Yeah, I liked it.

Like, don’t stress man, it’s fucking TV.

Do you find you perform differently when you’re doing that kind of stuff, or is it kinda the same?

The thing about that was that I was completely sober. Super stressed out, on the verge of a fucking panic attack since I woke up that day. You know, this is it, man — this is TV, make or break. Break a leg, you’re on fucking TV! So I was stressed out the whole fuckin’ day. But if you watch that, and could somehow splice that into a video of our set in some random town, and we were all shitfaced, you know, it would look like that. That’s what it would be. So I feel like in that sense I really did what we are justice.

[“Who Needs You”] used to be not so big a deal in our set, it’s worked its way towards the end now. I really don’t care about what that song is about at all, any of those…I’m glad I got that out of my system though. A few years ago, you’d hear about how for artists it was a huge thing, a political approach, a movement, like Conor Oberst and shit like that. And he’s like a good dude, cause he’s good at that and he knows how to do it and I totally respect that, but that was just me trying. So that’s what happened. But I don’t want to do that for a long time.

Do what exactly?

Just do anything political ever. I can’t watch fucking CNN, maybe the Daily Show, maybe Colbert Report. But other than that I just can’t fuckin’…I got my own problems. It’s kinda shitty but there’s so much shit going on in the world, like—do you know how lucky you are, you know that shit’s exploding in the desert over here? And it’s like dude, this girl doesn’t like me though. Like what the fuck, this kid’s getting his hands blown off and this girl doesn’t like you, but to me, like…I grew up in a nice place, that’s me getting my hands blown off, you know? So I’m still worried about stuff like that. You know, the girl that still doesn’t like me, that’s a big deal to me still.

Well, what I really like about you guys is really the fact that you are sort of this almost apolitical entity…

Everyone says like “be so aware,” you know like—I’m still young as shit right now. We have to throw down on a gram, we have to smoke some weed or else we’re gonna be bored. Or that’s how it was for a long time for me. “We need another case, what the fuck is going on in this world? We just ran out of beer.” While some kid gets shot in the head by a fucking sniper across the ocean, and I’m worried that there’s not enough beer in my hand. I didn’t grow up in a fucking desert so it’s just hard for me to like…it doesn’t hit me. Maybe I’ll watch a movie, you know, and that’s the closest I’ll get to…maybe I’ll watch American Sniper. Is it out?

I think it’s out, I’m not sure.

I’ll probably go watch that, it looks good. I like Clint Eastwood, Bradley Cooper seems like kind of a douche but I’ll give it to him, I’ll go see the flick. Maybe I’ll really feel something and for an hour after I see that movie I’ll really feel for them. But then I’ll be like “yo where’s the beer at? Where’s my friends? I wanna listen to music and fuck around.”

I think that’s what’s great about rock n roll though, that escape.

Yeah, I still think that there’s nothing wrong with that.

It’s an escape, you know. You guys were like fuck you to the system, I’m gonna drop out of school, I’m gonna be a rock star…I mean, I came from an area where they’re like you have to go to a fuckin’ fancy school if you’re gonna succeed and it’s like no, there’s so much more to the world.

Yeah, I saw older cousins go into a lot of debt and I saw how it just bummed them out so much. And I was like what if I just don’t go into debt. What if I just avoid owing people thousands and thousands of dollars. And then…I still owe my mom some money. But if I went to college, my mom would be totally fucked right now. Maybe not fucked, but they’d still be working and I want them to retire as early as possible, cause they busted their asses spooning Gerber into my mouth when I was hungry, so they deserve to chill out now.

Yeah, that’s good. Well I’m glad they’re proud of you and what you’re doing.

Yeah, they’re great.

So are your siblings coming to the show?

Yeah, I got a little brother. Not a little brother, he’s got like a big-ass beard now. He’s like 19. Yeah, he’s a little wild one, just like I was. Was, I’m not too wild anymore. But yeah. We have a great relationship. And I lucked out, cause a lot of kids have families that go south really quick, and I still got mine. So like, isn’t that enough? “You should be so fortunate for the food that you have,” and like dude let’s get real, I’m not gonna starve but it could be worse, you know, my parents could be divorced, my little brother could hate me…you know like, fuck the food, I’m used to eating when I’m hungry. There’s nothing wrong with knowing what you’re actually functioning for, instead of like “oh there’s a roof over my head,” well no shit, I’d have rain on my face right now…just common things like if you grow up that privileged, you see the other things that are really great, like family always being there. You know, it doesn’t have to be so primal. Like caveman shit, like “we have fire.” Yeah it’s fuckin’ cold, put the heat up, but I’m glad you’re here. That’s cool with me.

Well that’s great, it seems like you’re pretty humble considering where you’re at.

Yeah, right?

I’m sure what people say about you…

Yeah, what people think…I could write a dirty, dirty book about what people think. Waste of energy, right?

Fuck the haters.

Yeah, it’s okay to tell them to fuck themselves once in a while. I just got so fed up with people being able to reach me, like negatively. I’m guilty of that too but sometimes it bums me out that somebody has the power to just be like “hey fuck you” and you just see that on the Internet. So I don’t read comments and shit, like I’m gonna read something that just says fuck you, I’m an asshole because I’ve never had a conversation with them, you know? And then like, whatever—you don’t like the songs, that’s fine. It’s a product we created. To come at somebody as a person, like “I don’t like your art,” that’s okay. “I don’t like you as a person cause you’re a cocksucker,” like no, I’m not, or I see a lot of like “I like this band except that this guy’s a dick…” Okay then like the fucking band and shut the fuck up. It’s so unnecessary.

Yeah, I get kind of pissed, cause I saw some comment that was like “he’s a misogynist, blah blah blah” and I was like, with your taste in music, you really like female performers, you clearly have this emotional connection…

Their voices are even more powerful to me. My male ears are so receptive to like, the songbird. Yeah, you know, I do regular gentleman stuff sometimes, pay for meals…they’ve gotta pay sometimes too though, it’s gotta be fair. Unless somebody is like outwardly negative off the bat, I’m pretty good about being an okay person.

Well you seem to be one, so that’s good. Well I’m pretty psyched to see you guys perform tonight, tomorrow…I’ve been missing your shows all year.

That’s okay. This is a great way to see us. Big ol’ venue, lotta space, great slot, great time of year too — people are so cooped up, once an opportunity comes to have an experience somewhere, it’s a good time for the winter. Especially because people are sitting around so much when it’s cold out, they listen to a lot of music.

Yeah, I mean Spotify is great. Unless it fucks with your royalties, I dunno.

Yeah, it fucks with my money, but like, that one day I just sat down and listened to Angel Olsen’s Spotify for like 5 hours, and like, every song she ever made pretty much, on repeat, that was a great day to me. And I was stuck in a van and it was shitty outside, and we were just rolling across the country. I remember that, it was a super emotional day. I was just really, really listening to it. And if it wasn’t for Spotify I couldn’t have done that. And then the next day we were playing a fuckin’ in-store in Nashville and I bought everything she ever made. Like physical copies, I bought everything. I bought the vinyl and CD versions so I wouldn’t have to wait til I got home. So I could just put it in the CD player. That was money well spent.

If it wasn’t for that fucking website, or app, I wouldn’t have been able to get that, and I don’t know what kinda day I would’ve had if I didn’t have that to do. If I had nothing to listen to, and maybe I thought about something really shitty…but like, I dunno, now that’s one of my favorite artists. And how would I have heard about her, I don’t go on Pitchfork, I don’t know who’s killing it right now, and I probably wouldn’t have known who this girl was. And she’s just fuckin’ awesome. And I got to get that out of something that’s stolen my money, I get to get back at — it’s better than money. Almost.

Conversation turns towards merchandise and me trying to get backstage to meet the rest of the band. (I should have just asked to meet them in the hall itself since that’s where headlining bands hang out during the openers.) I tell him about how my friend and I used to dick around in her boyfriend’s band’s green room at their concerts.

Green rooms are not the happiest places usually.

We did pee in Deerhunter’s bathroom so that was pretty cool. I was pretty excited.

That’s cool. I shit in the toilet that Julian shit in, where they recorded Is This It.

That’s like a connection if you ever meet him.

I’d be like do you remember that toilet when you guys were recording, you probably shit in it all the time, I shit in there.

That’s perfect. Good opener for when you meet your idol.

Ah, I guess I’ll use that, I don’t got anything else to say to him.

It was pretty surreal to see the Orwells perform for the first time after months of enthusiastic listening plus speaking to Mario for an hour. When is that ever the case in the life of a rock n roll fan?

The show was incredible, of course. The band was high energy and keeping things loose, with the entire crowd singing along with Mario, and Matt asking for spontaneous song suggestions from the crowd. I and many others shouted “Blunts” all evening to no avail. It was just a non-stop night of dancing, shoving, grinning, and shouting every lyric.

The next night, New Year’s Eve, I caught Mario on my way to the bathroom upstairs before their set. He was standing at the end of the bar near the entrance and when I said hi he said something like “I hope the interview turns out well…I gave you my heart!” He is a seriously sweet kid — as long as you’re not a jerk.

I said “rock star” a lot in this interview (half-seriously, half-facetiously) and yes, the title of this piece has “rock god” in it. It’s a term that Mario doesn’t seem fully comfortable with embracing, and I understand why. Rock gods are the people we grew up idolizing, people like Lou Reed and Robert Plant and Julian Casablancas. They’re larger than life, untouchable inspirations. It’s hard to see them as the real people they are or were. But being a rock god isn’t just about being super famous or successful or notorious. It’s about style, it’s about energy, it’s about getting people to take notice and get excited. It’s about a presence that is cultivated but also the result of some cosmic allocation of talent. Mario has all of that and more, and it will only continue to evolve.

As I finished writing these articles, Mario released a cover on YouTube of him performing Angel Olsen’s “Creator, Destroyer,” accompanied by Dominic on a muted electric guitar. If the Orwells release this cover (or a similar version) as part of their new album it will be one of those most punk things to ever happen. Robert Plant and Jimmy Page were infatuated with Joni Mitchell, but they never covered “A Case of You.”

I just absolutely love the juxtaposition of a male rock singer covering a female acoustic poet-songbird. Olsen’s lyrics and vocal style always evoke these visceral emotional reactions, and Mario captures that in a very raw and open-hearted way. Reminds me of something a young Springsteen might have done. I can’t stop listening to it.

You can say whatever you want about the dirty reputation of a young rock n roll frontman, but it takes a truly feminist—and punk—sensibility to buck the expectations of the hyper-masculine rock n roll world to cover the work of an indie poet goddess. It reminds me of Kurt Cobain and how he would articulate feminist ideas and wear dresses all while being the grunge hero to millions. The greatest artists fuck with the expectations of their time. You don’t become a legend by being like everyone else.

If Mario can keep proving that he is not just a talented singer, but a performer and artist ready to experiment and pursue boundary-crossing innovations, he has the potential to make a truly great name for himself. I am very eager to see what comes next.

Kickass photos by NYC rock photographer Daniel Topete. You should definitely check out the rest of his excellent pix of The Orwells, Twin Peaks, Mac DeMarco and more at his website. http://www.danieltopete.com/

All songs, videos, and photographs are property of their respective owners, not me.

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