We Doubled Down on the PM & Designer Relationship

Here’s Why

In January of 2020, Hudl’s People Ops team sent an engagement survey to every Hudl employee. Based on results, John Wirtz (Hudl co-founder & CPO) and I rolled out new changes for both designers and PMs. It was clear we needed to change course and move toward a reality where these are true:

• PMs, designers and squads do work they’re proud of and actually feel that pride.
• The PM and Design chapter work together to grow.
• Hudl is a great place for PMs and designers to work.

We’re sharing this internal work publicly to inspire other product and design leaders. We’ve gone farther together. Here are the new changes ordered in importance:

1. Each PM & Design pair has a great relationship (we’re focusing here).
2. Projects have success metrics from the customer’s point of view.
3. It’s clear and visible what is in scope, out of scope and why.
4. Designers & PMs learn by making before the problem is well understood and defined.

Each PM & Design pair has a great relationship.

How well a squad delivers for our customers starts with the PM and designer relationship. This relationship is mission critical. When this relationship isn’t going well, we see teams ship their first idea. They build toward a list of requirements and disagree on metrics. Not only is that path costly in time and money but it makes Hudl a not-so-great place to work. When this relationship is working, we’re more likely to see the whole squad engaged. They’re solving the problem for the customer. Together, they’re making prototypes and testing against what our customers care about. And they deliver what matters.

Many of our PM & Designer relationships are just “fine”. Few are “amazing”. We want to move pairs out of the red and toward the green.

Thom Rimmer, Product Design Director at Hudl, created this rating scale framework. It helps designers and PMs identify where they’re at and plot progress.

What great relationships look like:

Humility, Respect & Trust: The pair listens when they express concerns or share an idea. They know each other’s needs. They give and take and know when to push each other.

Clear Expectations & Alignment: The pair know each other’s strengths and weaknesses. They know who is responsible for what. When there is confusion, they work through that confusion to bring clarity. They stick to these expectations until they decide to make a change.

Collaboration & Feedback: They work together, strategize and give feedback consistently. They have regular check-ins and feedback loops. Each gets better at their role by working with the other.

Healthy Conflict & United Front: Their disagreements move them forward instead of hold them back. They have conflicts 1:1. They unite on how they will move forward.

Customer First & Problem First: The pair cares about solving the problem or creating an opportunity for our customers. They know our customers well and advocate for them together. They can do this because they talk to customers consistently. They remind the squad why this work matters.

What meh & toxic relationships look like:

Meh

• Repeated venting in 1:1s with their manager about issues with their counterpart
• They disagree regularly in front of the squad or in front of groups of people.
• They throw things over the wall to each other instead of working together.
• They have differing views on what matters for their customers. They’re not resolving their differences quickly.
• They theorize instead of making to learn.
• They attend meetings alone that the other should be in.

Toxic
The above plus:

• They don’t listen to each other or consider the other’s ideas. They have a “my way or the highway” mentality.
• They can’t count on each other and items get dropped. They blame each other for what got dropped.
• They have a power struggle and need help from others to establish who is “right” and who is “wrong”.
• One is doing a good portion of both jobs.

How Managers Play a Part

Managers are key to evolving the culture and setting new expectations.

Questions managers can ask to evaluate where a pair is at:
Push past the “Yeah, it’s going okay” answers.

• When was the last time you two had a disagreement? What was it about? How did you move forward?
• How often do you two meet? What do you discuss?
• What are your next steps? What are the other person’s next steps?
• What are you two doing to weave the customer into the process? When was the last time you talked with a customer? How did that interaction impact you two and the squad?
• How are you two learning together?
• What are you two creating together?
• When was the last time you provided feedback/critique? How did it go? What came out of it?

Tools and processes can help strengthen a relationship
Each pair’s needs and areas of improvement will be different. Here’s a few ideas to get you started:

• Have the pair set up 1:1 time to learn about each other as people, not as a designer or product manager
• Work with each of them to encourage and recognize the other person
• Outline a responsibility venn diagram to outline expectations
• Make sure they’re doing some important work together
• Have them create a “user guide” for themselves
• Facilitate a conversation between the two: “Looking at your current work, what results would make each of you proud of this work?”
• Evaluate the pair in the employee review process

It’s early but the results of this expectation have been really exciting. We’re seeing pairs lift each other up and almost operate as one. Vulnerability and trust have replaced built up walls and misalignment. Managers are dealing with less communication issues and disagreements from the pairs. And we’re starting to see and feel more pride in the work.

The process to synthesize the feedback from both our chapters and to identify these new expectations was a lengthy one. But so worth it to understand the needs of our chapters. Reach out in the comments if you’re interested in learning more.

Interested in working on a product team that works like this? We’re hiring!