Interview with our Lead Android Engineer — Lucia Payo (Part 2) on her leadership journey
In Part 1 of this interview, we discovered Lucia Payo’s (LP) background, found out more about her personal journey at N26 and learned more about the Android team. In this part we’ll focus on uncovering her technical leadership journey.
PK: We’ve talked about the Android team. Let’s talk about your leadership journey. You’ve turned around a team. You’ve grown the team rapidly while providing a great environment for everyone to thrive. What have been your biggest lessons learned on your own leadership journey?
LP: Good question. When we were starting to grow, none of us were super experienced. None of us were officially a leader, or had gone through this experience before. We wanted everyone to feel they could have an impact and influence; much like the way we felt when we joined. We left things very open. I learned how leadership during this time is particularly important. You don’t have to be a strong leader to set a line, but you need to know when to define a line, particularly as new people join. This reduces conflict by setting expectations early. I learned, as you onboard new people, it’s important they understand the technical vision and direction we have defined. It doesn’t mean they can’t change it or influence it. It sets the basic context.
PK: If I understand it, then the first lesson is about articulating boundaries. Or about setting expectations on where people can have an impact in their roles.
LP: Right.
PK: What is another lesson you learned?
LP: You have to learn how to say no. In the beginning I was trying to do too many things. It’s not always about saying, “No.” Rather, it’s more of a, “No, not me.” You have to learn what you can take on, or delegate, or being very straightforward with a no. This takes a lot of time and effort. I’ve learned to respect that process.
In the beginning I started very stressed out, as my internal expectations told me, “Just do it.” In my mental model, there was no time for processing this information. There was no time for coming up with a plan or figuring out what we want to do on a strategic level. I didn’t respect that this process takes time, creating more pressure for me. I discovered I needed time. Time to absorb new information or requests. Time to process information. Time to decide on the best way to handle the situation. Sometimes that means saying, “No”, or, “No, not now.”
PK: This is, indeed, such an important part of leadership. Working out what you should be doing versus what others can help you with.
PK: You said you wanted to grow when you joined N26. It sounds like you have grown a lot as an engineer and a lot in your own leadership journey. You’ve learned how to set boundaries and change the direction of a team. What has helped you personally on this leadership journey?
LP: Having an environment that is very supportive. We don’t have an environment where people point fingers at each other. We are very collaborative. People help each other out, especially across roles, teams and departments. We are in an environment where you can make mistakes. Making mistakes is not bad. However it’s important to work in an organisation that supports you, as long as you do your best.
I’ve found it’s particularly important to also communicate what you’re trying to do and why. By involving other people, others can also give you input or feedback if they see you might be making a mistake.
I also had the support of specific people to talk through topics. I also had volunteers taking on more responsibility. As the team grew, we had more people stepping up. They benefit, because they can grow and it helps me scale myself. Additionally, you provided some great technical leadership training. What was most impactful was having an opportunity to put those skills into practice. It was important to get our hands dirty.
PK: We’re running out of time, so my last question. What is one piece of advice you would give to aspiring technical leaders?
LP: Be patient. With yourself. And with others. It takes time to adjust to a new role. It depends on your approach. I’m the sort of person who puts pressure on myself. If you’re that type of person, calm down. Be patient. Ensure you take a break. If you’re stressing out or panicking, you’re not going to be able to effectively help others out. You will also need to learn to repeat yourself (a lot!) People will keep coming back with the same question and you will need to repeat the answer. It’s just how it is!
PK: Some really great insights into both the Android team and your own leadership journey. Thanks Lucia!
LP: Thank you!
Want to work with Lucia in Berlin, Barcelona, New York or Vienna?
If you’d like to join us on the journey of building the mobile bank the world loves to use, have a look at the Android Engineer roles we’re looking for here.
