Barbie Ferreira and Dounia Tazi
Brand building, Creative Integrity, and Jumping Cats (you’ll see…)
Barbie Ferreira and Dounia Tazi, are triple threats as models, artists and activists. While both women shrug off the label of “activist” and instead see activism as simply being a good citizen, Gen Zs think otherwise. They love these two multi-hyphenates for their courage, creativity and conviction.
Molly: Hi there! So happy that you two were able to chat. Why don’t you quickly introduce yourselves.
Dounia: Hi, I’m Dounia. I’m an almost 21-year-old Moroccan artist from Queens and I have an 8 song EP out. I’m also releasing my first official produced music video for “So Cool” that Barbie directed. I’m mad happy. It’s coming out real swell.
Molly: That’s amazing. Wait, Barbie you directed it?
Barbie: Yes, yes I did. I’d never done that before but I thought “why the hell not.” Somehow we pulled it all together. We had such an amazing crew.
D: Yeah, she was great!
M: Did you like directing Dounia? Could you direct Dounia?
B: Hahaha, yeah!
D: We are collaborative. And we work well together since I trust her and know we have good taste.
M: OK, so, first question, when I hear your peers talk about the two of you, they really admire you for your authenticity. A tragically overused word; however, I am curious about how you all keep your creative integrity as artists and as humans when, because of what you do — model, musician, Instagram phenom — you are also a brand.
B: I think that, growing up on the internet, I have always seen what a follower or subscriber is. I’m always observing, and I quickly started picking out what I hate about seeing people who just weren’t being themselves. I think it’s great to be different because honestly just being honest is way chiller for me because I am lazy and I can’t keep up some Instagram “brand.” That’s really what it is: honesty and laziness.
D: I think it’s never anything conscious, I’m not intentionally presenting myself in any way. Both of us are just too big of personalities to be able to censor that, yah know. It’s like your social media is just an extension of you. It’s so evident when people are trying really hard to appear a certain way. It just always comes out diluted in the narrative because they can’t fully express themselves. But we are just big personalities.
B: But also we have evolved overtime with our time spent on the internet. I feel like I’m way different on the internet now than I was before. If I had less people following me I would be a whole different person. But like now it’s a little difficult. So, I feel like it almost suppresses what I want to do. Things are always taken out of context and people online can just be cruel.
D: Yeah, that’s true, you do have to mitigate it a little more when you realize the size of your platform and how serious it is. Because I feel like most of the time I don’t even think about the fact that I have thousands of followers, and yet, I have to cause that’s gonna be a part of the way I move. Ever since I hit 10,000 followers I knew that I always wanted to present myself in a way that was motivational and powerful to women. And whenever I have a horrible moment or something like, that I’ll always find empowerment in it and then I’ll share. I always try to find purpose within the stuff that I share. So, I guess that is a part of it, you are aware of your influence and you learn.
B: You just learn and you go.
M: Do you ever feel obligated to be this thing that’s almost a bit outside yourself, the “Dounia” or “Barbie” that fans and media determine or dictate? Does it ever influence or manipulate, consciously or not, how you present yourself on social?
B: The only thing I really don’t do is extremes like I’m aware that a lot of people are watching so all that has really changed is that I post everything that I know I’m 400,000 percent okay with. I don’t think anymore into it or of it.
D: For me I don’t feel like it’s important or that pressure or anything. I quite enjoy it. I feel like I’m cut out to be a famous person if that makes sense. I very much embrace the platform I’ve been given and the role that I’ve been given because I’ve always wanted to inspire others — inspire women and uplift them. I feel like I’m a spiritual person, and I try to be emotionally attached, and be the best version of me. So, I don’t think there is necessarily a pressure to pass that on because it’s just who I am. I feel like if I was going through my own shit and I was in a bad place, then it would be different — but I’m thankful. I’m spoiled.
B: You pass that positive energy onto others. She is everything on Instagram, she’s literally great. Everything you do is well done and thoughtful.
D: Thank you so much.
M: Do you know what you think makes a good Instagram post?
B: Literally no because the most liked photo on my entire Instagram is my grandma, so I don’t even know!! I don’t even know anymore!! I don’t understand and I don’t get it.
D: I don’t know either cause some pictures I’m like damn this is a hit and then it doesn’t hit.
B: I just have given up trying to understand it.
D: When it flops I’m just like “Oh Lord!”
B: A blurry picture of my cat trying to attack me gets the same amount of likes as me naked.
D: Yo, I’m screaming!!
B: Forreal!
D: I don’t know just try to post something interesting. I don’t know post something funny or cool I guess, I don’t even know.
B: Use good lighting!
D: Yeah, good lighting! Or bad lighting intentionally.
B: Does it even matter at the end of the day?
M: Do you go back and edit your Instagrams and delete things?
D: Yeah, sometimes I do. Sometimes I get into phases, like broke phases in my life where I’m like damn let me curate my shit.
B: What do you mean?
D: I don’t know like if I want my shit to be beautiful and sort of like a resume form and I want brands to look at it and think they want work with me, like that’s the image that they’ll want to buy. But then there are some times when I’m so lit and I’m like I’m going to post whatever I want. Yeah so it really depends on my phase.
B: I have no formula or anything. I feel like I take a lot of pictures that I should be posting but I wouldn’t think to.
D: Yeah, it’s interesting how Barbie and Instagram started because she’s not like an “Instagram girl.” Like I feel like I’m an Instagram girl personally, I’m like “someone take a picture of me!” — you know like I think of that and stuff. She’s just always be living her life. I think she just became an Instagram star because she was modeling and stuff but yah know I was on my Insta-vibe.
B: It’s different settings, yah know. The thing about the pictures is like what if I look bad, yah know?
D: Oh my god!!!
B: I don’t need tons of pictures of me like that. I don’t need for anyone to be taking pictures of me at an event looking like super sweaty or something.
D: You’re like oh my god, I can’t even.
B: I’ll take pictures but I’ll have to curate that picture and make sure it looks good. I’ll have to take tons of pictures before I find a good one, like what!!
D: I’m dead!! I like to get pictures taken of me, but before I never did. For like the first five months of people taking videos and pictures of me I was like okay that’s fine — but now that I’m not a model anymore and I’m an artist I don’t mind. Now that I’m out here just trying to be me and nobody else, I enjoy it more. It’s cool.
M:Well, it comes down to the question of are you making work for yourself or for your fans. Because if it is the latter, you can start to get consumed by the machine and lose your center, lose your control. It is inevitable for anyone producing something for public consumption that you have to release your hold; however, how do you do that while still retaining a strong center and identity?
B: Yeah, I think if fans are judging your value on everything you’re doing by yourself and for yourself — then that’s dope, and no one can control us because everyday is different. I’m always changing the story up. I’m always trying to be bigger and better.
D: Yeah.
B: I know I’m always changing, I know my time is up when I’m doing something. I’ve always had like a 10-year plan and I know when to change up one thing and focus on another — or do something I want to do or just test something out. I feel like people limit themselves because they aren’t motivated.
D: Nobody is motivated!
B: If you are out there working hard at something you will get your results. Things will get better. People are not doing that, instead people are caught up in the cloud — caught up in Instagram culture. They are absorbed in hanging out with people who are doing better than them, and not thinking about being those people or doing better than them. They are not thinking bigger — people just don’t think outside the box. People limit themselves so hard and that’s why they can always fade out, because they are not changing it up and they are not interesting people. You are always interesting if you have so many layers to you and you’re always expressing them and changing it up.
D: Always evolving.
B: The world can grow with you.
D: Above all, it means not being concerned about what we think our fanbase will or will not take away from what we do or make. We are so driven ourselves and don’t really think about what other people want us to be.
B: It’s more like: it’s not my problem, I am just blessed that I can get better and bigger and that’s all I intend to do. I never tend to think about right now, I’m always thinking about the future. I’m never satisfied or comfortable with what I’m doing, I’m always saying how I can do more and I’m always trying to do more.
M: That’s a big part of what’s so influential about you two, always striving to be more, do more. We find that young people don’t care about the surface of celebrity. They care about things with true values and intentions. Do you think that is true?
B: So many people are oversaturating the world with stuff that we have already seen, instead of pushing forward and doing or making something new.
D: Facts!!!
B: That’s not going to work. We are trying to change the world like change the way we feel inside, change the way people think about something. And people want to keep us inside some box. I see it all the time, people with so much potential and they just let it drop.
D: Right out of their hands…
B: Yeah but like what’s one more step or ten more steps to reach your goal? You don’t want to be selling yourself out for a short career. That should never be the case, that’s a shortcut, and shortcuts never work.
M: Totally. So, I really cringe at the word “activist” because I think it’s over used; however, what is your feeling when someone refers to you as an activist, especially a model/activist?
D: It’s uber weird to me.
B: I do care about the world at the end of the day but “activist” (p XX I AM ACTIVIST) is so overused. It’s all over social media and especially in fashion that has some of the least urgent issues and the things that should be getting cracked down on don’t get cracked down on and yet people in fashion still will call themselves activists or say they support a cause. Why are most people calling themselves an activist? Like you have to do something to fix a big issue to say that.
D: I can’t call myself an activist.
B: Neither can I. I’m not out there like that.
D: They be slamming that word onto anybody right now. When I see a fashion activist, I laugh. Like you’re not a fashion activist. Like stop, what do you even mean?
B: Right. And there are people who are doing the work and working with charities and doing things to find solutions for problems affecting people or the planet and those people deserve that title. There are some people in the modeling industry who do do that. But I feel like, in the grand scheme of things, most of us in general may have followings and talk about stuff that’s important but we don’t exactly do anything that impactful politically.
D: I don’t like being called an activist because I feel like it integrates into my brand, yah know? And I don’t like that part of me being a part of my brand. Like a model activist is just weird, like you are commodifying the term, it shouldn’t be a part of your tagline.
B: We all want to do what is right but we don’t need a title for that. There are people doing more, putting time and energy into helping communities, and really working hard at helping humanity and I feel like the word has been thrown around a lot.
D: Why is activist the slogan though? Like why do you need that tagline, why do you need that clickbait? There is no glamour in it, it should be like productive, selfless, and there should be actual movement occuring — not just a cute word for you to use.
B: There are a lot of things I wanna say. I tweet things that come into my head or about things going on, yah know. I’ll just talk about random stuff but then I have my private Twitter with my friends and family and I’d be tweeting like “what’s wrong with everyone?” But as soon as you do that with outside people they think it’s some kind of statement.
D: I don’t even be putting myself out there like that, but it’s so weird cause like, when I speak my mind, people make it out to be such a huge thing. And I’m realizing that in music too. People will be like, “ Wow, you’re wild on Twitter, you’re like an activist!” And I’m like “Bro what?! This ain’t even no leg work this is light work, I didn’t even really do nothing.”
B: It’s so crazy.
D: And it’s worse when you genuinely care, and you just get that part of you exploited in a sense.
B: And if we make comments on things that are really important, it’s because they’re real life things — like it’s not just Instagram or Facebook or Twitter drama, it’s like your actual life is at stake. Sometimes I wish I never had to get political and deal with the backlash, especially when it’s the truth. I don’t understand why such simple things are so controversial. It shouldn’t be like that. I get that some people just want to express their anger but yeah it sucks sometimes.
M: Do ever feel obligated to participate in things like #MeToo or other social justice/political movements because you have a public platform? There seems to be an expectation that anyone with a following needs to pick a side in any given movement or issue.
D: Yeah, I think you should be obligated to be genuinely educated. Most of these people are not genuinely educated and they are just hopping on the bandwagon of political slogans and headlines. But, bro, form your own opinion and discourse and contribute to the conversation!
B: Don’t just repeat everything you hear and see, don’t let that vibe into your lifestyle. Learn what’s right and what’s wrong. And if you feel a need to talk about it, then talk about it. Sometimes I care a lot about things but I would never post about them because I don’t feel like I need to have that open conversation.
D: I never feel pressured to post anything. There have been movements online that I haven’t contributed to. I wasn’t like “Oh my god I have to run with fake activist,” yah know what I’m saying? I never feel that way. If I ever feel like I have something I really need to say or can contribute productively, then I will. But otherwise I’m not just going to hashtag something because I don’t want to be seen a certain way.
B: People on the internet will start a fire where there isn’t one and it’s always some bullshit like that. I do my own research and find some proof. Like I’ve retweeted pictures of missing girls that have gone viral and then it comes out a day later that the girls in the photo aren’t even missing, yah know. That’s a lesson right there: we should, no matter what, always do our research.
D: I don’t know, just question everything. Genuinely: knowledge is power.
