Fireside Chat with JennyCo Founders: Community Q&A

Following are highlights from the recent Fireside Chat held on June 8, 2023 on Twitter Spaces with the JennyCo founders Michael Nova (CEO & Co-founder), Jenny Diggles (Co-founder), Linden Leadbetter (Head of Tokenomics), and Stephen Carter (Chief Science Officer)

Here’s a link to the Twitter Spaces recording on Youtube.

The JennyCo community submitted the following questions, which were addressed by the team. Community questions and team answers are summarized below.

How do you envision JennyCo impacting the healthcare data marketplace, and how do you see this project expanding over the next five years?

Michael Nova: I believe the biggest impact over the next five years will be the empowerment of users and consumers. They will have the ability to take charge of their data and healthcare, while also receiving personalized information generated through artificial intelligence. In the data world, the most valuable type of data is outcome data, such as the effectiveness of drugs, exercises, or food. Various groups, including large companies like food companies and Google, mine data for different purposes. Data mining is particularly prominent in the healthcare industry, amounting to a $50 billion business in the US alone.

By empowering consumers to own their data and take control of their health, we consider it a public service and a valuable offering for both consumers and data-mining companies. This approach aligns with our vision and has significant potential.

Regarding the question of which companies would be interested in the initial genomic data from the sequencing.com kits, Google was mentioned as one example. Additionally, we have been discussing longevity as a popular topic, where groups studying longevity may also express interest in this data. While there may be other companies interested, further input from the team members would be valuable in identifying specific entities.

Linden Leadbetter: I believe the genomic data itself, while interesting, is primarily important in terms of the context it provides for all the other data. To illustrate this point, let’s take an example from Men’s Health magazine. In a study mentioned in the magazine, it may state that 72% of people benefited from taking caffeine before a workout. However, if we overlay genetic data and examine the specific SNP (Single Nucleotide Polymorphism) that codes for caffeine metabolism, we might find that 100% of individuals with that SNP performed well in their workouts after consuming caffeine. This demonstrates the significance of context, and your genomic data serves as the scaffold that supports and enhances the value of all the other data you provide. While the genomic data itself has intrinsic value, its true worth lies in providing context for the rest of the data.

Stephen Carter: I completely agree with that. The genomic data, whether it’s microarray or whole genome sequencing, will significantly enhance and contribute to the evaluation of biomarkers and blood chemistry work that users will provide to JennyCo. Additionally, other factors such as demographic data (e.g., place of residence and employment) play a crucial role. For example, consider the air quality in New York City today; it becomes an important consideration. These additional data points further amplify the value we can bring to the medical community and informatics companies.

By collectively analyzing all this individual-specific data, we can provide recommendations that will grow stronger over time as our database expands. With a larger database, our recommendations will gain more power and increased validity, whether they are individual recommendations or derived from the collective pool of data.

Could the premise of the JennyCo healthcare app be put into use for pets? The same idea — your pet would have a profile: breed, type of pet food you feed them, how often you walk your pet, medications, and so on. And you’d share the profile at the vet office, or maybe even integrate with chipping devices. What do you think?

Michael Nova: Yes, we did discuss this in the early days, and I believe it’s a fantastic idea. We can definitely explore branching out in that direction. What’s interesting is that there’s a significant amount of healthcare data concerning pets, drugs, and foods, and unfortunately, there aren’t stringent regulations in place for these areas. It’s unfortunate that you can inject pets with almost anything without real constraints. This results in a wealth of healthcare data. It’s a thriving business, particularly for food companies targeting cats, dogs, and other animals. These companies invest a great deal of effort into determining the best ingredients, what to add, and what to remove.

Stephen Carter: In addition to that, there are numerous companies that offer DNA analysis services for dogs and cats. They can inform you about the various mixed breeds present in your puppy, for example. We could potentially utilize some of that information and expand upon it. Furthermore, we can consider factors like whether the dog is overweight or receives enough exercise. Just like humans, they have their own needs. They’re humans too. It’s amusing, but they are considered part of the family.

Jenny Diggles: Another aspect we’ve considered is catering to individuals involved in animal breeding. Whether it’s breeding racehorses or cattle, understanding the genetic matches becomes crucial. While there may already be services addressing this, there might be a way to leverage it for more commercial purposes if individuals breed animals as part of their livelihood. I really like this idea; it has great potential.

And speaking as someone who literally took their dog to a cardiologist this past year, having information like this would be very helpful.

How will JennyCo reach the initial goal of 10,000 users in the app?

Jenny Diggles: Yeah, we have some exciting developments in progress. Our marketing strategy includes a robust content flywheel that will be featured on our new website upon its release. This approach will effectively attract and engage people. Now, let’s discuss our goals and intentions regarding achieving 10,000 users.

Michael Nova: Absolutely. We’ve made progress in various areas. For instance, we’ve established a partnership with Arizona State, a prestigious university with an astonishingly large student body of 110,000. Their blockchain group has assisted us in developing backend technology, and they are also keen on promoting our app among their students. Similar efforts are underway with other universities as well. Our marketing team has been actively engaging with several interested universities.

Additionally, we have collaborations with major insurance companies, though I can’t disclose their names due to confidentiality. These companies serve millions of people and have expressed interest in our services. Surprisingly, insurance companies are genuinely interested in keeping everyone healthy and extending lifespans. They excel at leveraging previous data to create insurance plans and highly value any user data, especially dynamic and outcome-based information. We have several such partnerships lined up as we embark on our initial phase. This sets the stage for potentially attracting millions of users and building our database, starting with the goal of reaching 10,000 users.

Jenny Diggles: Yeah, absolutely. It’s crucial to have a wide funnel, understanding that not everyone will progress through it. Therefore, we are heavily focused on this aspect. As we continue to enhance the initial MVP version of the app and incorporate features that foster deep engagement, we aim to amplify its impact and reach a broader audience. While we are familiar with Web 3 and crypto here in our conversation, it’s important to note that the JennyCo app is primarily targeted towards consumers. Most users will have no prior experience setting up a crypto wallet or understanding related concepts. And that’s precisely what we intend. We want the app to be a user-friendly healthcare tool that utilizes these mechanisms in the background. As we reach those stages, you will witness traditional marketing efforts by JennyCo extending beyond the channels we are currently discussing.

How will the application with AI handle the community asking questions about their specific condition?

Jenny Diggles: Will it be similar to Google, where you search for a rash and think it’s the end of the world? That can indeed be the case if the information is solely derived from the web. However, we also consider input from application members’ responses, which may yield similar answers. So, let’s discuss how AI will operate within our app as we continue to develop it.

Michael Nova: Oh, sure. I guess I’ll start with this. So, when you look at the way AI has been progressing over the years, there has been a lot of work on what’s called large language models. These are basically AIs that can read and answer questions in English or any other language you’re interested in. They can provide information or answers based on the data they have. Part of these large language models, specifically ChatGPT, is trained on a database of things and almost a trillion different word combinations, essentially incorporating everything on the internet.

This potential usefulness, however, doesn’t provide the personalized component that individuals would desire. That’s where our AI comes in. It takes the specific data you provide us to train this large language model, focusing on things that are potentially interesting to you. So, a year from now, when you ask about a rash on your face, we have data about you in your instance of our AI, your personalized vault, along with the collected data. With this information, we can make concrete recommendations. The AI, being a big neural net, will process it and provide reasonable recommendations on what it potentially is and what you can do about it. It’s a combination of the large database and the smaller database generated from the information you provide us.

Linden Leadbetter: Mm-hmm. Yes, I guess we could also train it on selected studies and resources. Rather than just trolling the internet, we’ll focus on specific studies and selected resources. Another important point is that it will be a walled garden. So the information you input will not be sent back to the main service like Google or others.

Stephen Carter: And Linden, to your point, there is a growing number of medical publications that focus on studies conducted by physicians in reputable academic groups. These studies examine the use of AI in specific medical conditions or diseases and how to interpret data, including patient inclusion and outcomes. We will tap into all of that and try to bring it to bear on the JennyCo database to provide better recommendations.

Michael Nova: To finalize, I think we’re all about peer-reviewed, ratified data and strong scientific information that we can use to make recommendations. This includes the studies, clinical trials, and PubMed papers, of which there are 22 million. All of this will help us train our AI for the benefit of consumers.

Stephen Carter: Well, and that will set us apart from others as well.

Linden Leadbetter: Mm-hmm. You know what I think is a big shame? Out of those 22 million studies, most of them do not have the DNA scaffold that would provide amazing context. It’s almost like we have to read the best ones again.

Michael Nova: What’s interesting is that around half of those PubMed papers are likely to be non-valid. It’s a lot of information, and we’re trying to figure out what’s not good information.

Stephen Carter: Right. What’s the right paper?

Michael Nova: The right thing to consider is whether a study is good, if the information is ratified, and if there is more than one study supporting it. It’s not necessarily the fault of the scientists who publish these studies. It’s a common modus operandi in which about half of all studies turn out to be not necessarily worthless but not validated going forward. However, that’s how science works.

Linden Leadbetter: Yes, I agree. Another problem is that there is no compulsion to publish studies without a favorable outcome. So often, we only have studies with positive outcomes. The ones without outcomes or that failed the study would actually provide useful information if published. However, there’s not much appetite for it or the researchers conducting the study don’t want it publicized.

Michael Nova: That’s a very good point. Studies are rarely published unless they are high-profile, such as drug studies aimed at curing specific diseases. Even if they don’t yield good results, they need to be published to prevent physicians from prescribing ineffective drugs. In general, science is a trial and error process, especially in biology, which is incredibly challenging. But we’re also interested in erroneous outcomes and negative data.

Jenny Diggles: Yes, exactly. To Linden’s point, many studies that don’t reach their desired outcomes still contain valuable data that isn’t published. Within JennyCo, we have the opportunity to surface our own ideas of correlation, causation, and contributing data from our users, who form groups and contribute their information. This allows us to gain better insights and expand our own knowledge base, instead of solely relying on external resources. Every piece of data could potentially be important, even if we don’t know the full picture or the actual outcome. Sometimes it just takes time for things to unfold.

Michael Nova: It’s also interesting to note that in the past, I worked with an obesity group that looked at studies on supplements and plant products. These studies, aimed at getting published in peer-reviewed journals, were not conducted frequently. Supplement and pharmaceutical companies usually don’t invest in such studies because they don’t offer monetary gain. And, to be fair, most of the supplements that do go through clinical trials and get funded do not produce good results. In fact, around 70% of them fail to yield positive outcomes.

A few years ago, there was a notable study attempting to prevent lung cancer in smokers using vitamin E. Unfortunately, the study showed no effect. However, upon further analysis, they found a small subset of patients who did benefit from the vitamin E, but their data was overshadowed by the larger number of negative outcomes. This underscores the importance of exploring negative data and searching for any valuable insights within it.

Jenny Diggles: That’s interesting because it reminds me of a book I read called “The China Study” about 15 years ago. It explored why the rate of lung cancer in China, where the majority of men smoke cigarettes, was significantly lower compared to westernized countries. They discovered epigenetic factors that were activated in genes when people adopted a Western diet. As China became more westernized, with an increase in fast food and weight gain, lung cancer rates soared. This correlation between diet, smoking, and the causation of lung cancer was fascinating to uncover. It shows that not everything is a straightforward cause-and-effect relationship. Understanding what else is going on is crucial.

Michael Nova: Indeed, in the United States, lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer-related deaths, accounting for around 750,000 deaths per year. However, only about 15% of chronic smokers develop lung cancer. The remaining 85% may die from other causes like emphysema or heart disease. Still, that 15% amounts to 700,000 people in the US. While treatments have improved, personalized medicine and genetic therapy are being used, lung cancer remains a major issue. It also contributes to the high healthcare costs in the US, which is a $2 trillion industry. Prevention is becoming increasingly important in reducing costs and improving overall health.

Jenny Diggles: Absolutely. It’s much easier to prevent something from happening than to try to stop it once it’s already in motion, like a train leaving the station. Preventive measures are essential.

Now, let’s discuss how we plan to approach rural countries and enable them to use our application. We have aspirations to benefit people in rural areas who may lack easy access to medical care. We envision collaborating or cooperating with local clinics to make this happen. It’s important to consider their specific needs and the availability of medicines and treatments in those regions.

What are some of the team’s thoughts on, on how we envision going into more rural types of countries with this?

Michael Nova: Yeah, I can take this too. You know, we have a lot of interest from outside groups. Jenny and the rest of the team are aware of this. We have people interested in Asia and Africa about what we’re doing. To get our technology used internationally, the best approach is to find a partner in the country of interest, whether it’s in the Middle East, Vietnam, or elsewhere. We have already made contacts and started the process of introducing our technology in these countries. Many of them are interested in either the infrastructure aspect or having their own customized app on top of our technology.

Some developing countries struggle to provide medical care to the general and poorer populations. However, even in those situations, people often have access to cell phones, including smartphones or phones with enough power to run our app. They see the benefits of using our application to improve public health for those who can’t access quality healthcare. There is also a potential financial aspect to consider, making it a win-win situation, particularly in developing countries.

Linden Leadbetter: Bringing this back to our earlier discussion on acquiring 10,000 users, I think one effective approach, especially in the third world or anywhere, is to offer something the users want, such as healthcare insurance. Users would only need to provide data to the app, and we would handle all the intermediate steps. With features like auto stake, they wouldn’t need to interact with the app extensively, just keep their data up to date. In return, we would take care of converting the funds into insurance payments. This way, we can attract people by meeting their needs and create a powerful viral marketing tool.

Jenny Diggles: Absolutely, I agree. This actually leads us to another question that I came across this morning, and I really liked it. It’s great because we already have the answer.

In terms of health and life insurance, will there be a way to properly connect JennyCo with insurance providers to offer custom-tailored policies to their clients that best serve and protect each patient? And could you elaborate on what would need to be developed in order to have this implemented in a scalable manner?

Is there a way this could be done privately and securely in a HIPAA compliant manner, but with the best incentives to the user to protect their health — where the financial rewards they earn from their anonymous health data could directly help pay for their health or life insurance and/or directly contribute to the products and services that best optimize their mental and physical health, which then in turn reduce the cost of their health and life insurance?

And could this eventually translate into JennyCo becoming a health and life insurance provider somewhere down the road when the infrastructure for it is there?

Michael Nova: To answer your question, the answers are yes, yes, maybe yes, in that order. We have discussed this multiple times. As I mentioned earlier, we have insurance companies interested in leveraging the data to customize insurance plans based on the user’s data. This includes tailoring the cost and benefits and potentially providing automatic upgrades every year. Through the JennyCo system, we can also reduce costs. We have already begun exploring partnerships with several interested groups to pursue this direction.

Linden Leadbetter: Web3 is particularly beneficial in this scenario. We can validate the user’s data without revealing it to the insurance company. Once the validation is done by JennyCo, the insurance company can offer a low-premium policy based on the validated information. On a larger scale, the insurance policy may contribute to a data pool that analyzes which outcomes deserve lower premiums.

Michael Nova: We have even joked about the possibility of JennyCo having its own insurance service or a similar version through alliances with infrastructure providers. It’s not out of the question.

Jenny Diggles: Absolutely, I would love to see that personally. I’m surprised by how much I spend on health insurance every month and how much I still have to pay when I actually use it. It doesn’t feel fair. I feel like I’m paying into an insurance policy that helps someone else whose health isn’t great, while I’m stuck in this dilemma.

I’ve been experimenting with paying out of pocket for certain services to see their actual costs, and it’s eye-opening how inexpensive they can be. When I inquire about the charges for the same service billed to insurance companies, they always charge more, and that’s just absurd to me. If I can pay $30 for a blood draw, but they charge the insurance company $60, it’s perplexing.

There’s a lot to unpack here, but I see the potential for us in the future. We’ve discussed it, and I completely agree with Linden. Web3 technology plays a crucial role in ensuring and maintaining anonymity.

How does JennyCo’s utilization of decentralized science and blockchain technology not only enhance data security and privacy, but also foster a collaborative environment for groundbreaking research and the development of innovative healthcare solutions?

Jenny Diggles: So, yes, I know it’s not a yes or no question, but I wanted to discuss how we can utilize these mechanics we’ve been talking about to benefit research and healthcare solutions. Would any of you like to share your thoughts on this?

Stephen Carter: Well, I’ll jump in. This is Steve. First, I want to remind everyone on the call that when users contribute their data to the JennyCo database, it will be stored in a highly secure environment. Importantly, we will not share this information with anyone until we seek your permission. If you agree, then we can share it with pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, or any other interested parties who want to analyze our user data, whether it’s a small pool or a larger one. If someone approaches us with specific criteria, such as patients within a certain age range, gender, and with a history of lung cancer and smoking for a specific number of years, and these users give consent to share their data, we can package the anonymous data separately from the main database and provide it to the inquiring company. This process will foster research by expediting ethical and transparent collaboration between users and companies, ultimately aiding in the development of new products.

Jenny Diggles: Yes, we certainly hope so. Additionally, by including diverse groups, such as small research teams from universities or curious scientists and hobbyists, we can provide them with greater accessibility and variety in the data they can work with. This will lead to more efficient research outcomes, and it’ll be fascinating to see how this approach is adopted and what results we can achieve.

Stephen Carter: Just one more thing to add. Currently, many databases used for research are localized to specific medical centers or clinics, limiting their reach. Our goal is to globalize our database by including individuals from Western Europe, North and South America, as well as underdeveloped regions like Africa and parts of Asia that are often excluded from these pools. Through the inclusion of anyone willing to contribute data with a smartphone, we can involve a larger number of people, especially those in areas with unmet medical needs or limited evaluated data sources. This diversity can significantly contribute to better outcomes for the product we aim to develop.

How can a specialist healthcare provider with access to large numbers of patients with a range of chronic diseases work with JennyCo? And are there any incentives planned to encourage caregivers to help onboard these kinds of patients? Thoughts?

Michael Nova: Yeah, this is another opportunity we’ve discussed extensively, ensuring that healthcare providers are on board with our efforts and finding ways to incentivize them. Currently, physicians often rely on outdated EHR records and lack access to real-time and dynamic data about the users. With our solution, we can provide up-to-date information, including outcome data, which can greatly improve decision-making when treating patients. We’ve explored the idea of forming groups and having physicians actively monitor the micro DAOs, gaining a deep understanding of the caretakers involved and how they can participate in the JennyCo system. If they see positive outcomes, it would naturally lead to recommendations for JennyCo as a suitable option for specific individuals.

Jenny Diggles: Absolutely. Our goal is to build an app that makes it easy for consumers to have their information readily available, and we can work with physicians’ offices to streamline the process of receiving this information. This alone would significantly speed up physicians’ workflow and reduce paperwork. Additionally, incentivizing physicians to bring their users into our ecosystem is something we would love to explore further. It ties into the next question we have.

Will the app have a spot for physicians and patients to interact directly with one another?

Jenny Diggles: Yes, absolutely. We will be incorporating telemedicine into the app to provide a way for people to have their questions answered and encourage them to consult with a doctor for the best information and guidance. It’s important to have someone working with you if that’s the direction you choose. So, the app will include a feature for that connection. Is there anything else you’d like to add regarding caregivers and patients?

Michael Nova: Yes, and this applies to large hospital groups as well. Incentivizing them to join the JennyCo platform is crucial. The quality and timeliness of the data we collect play a significant role in this. Additionally, mobility is essential. It’s a significant benefit for individuals to have their electronic healthcare records accessible and up-to-date wherever they go, whether it’s a different state or a new healthcare provider. Our system will facilitate the collection of various types of data, eliminating the need to repeatedly input information such as EHR or family history every time you change physicians or healthcare groups.

Linden Leadbetter: Absolutely. On a more basic level, there are referral codes built into the apps. For instance, if a doctor’s office successfully brings in all their hundred patients, they would receive a hundred referral codes for JennyCo tokens.

Jenny Diggles: That’s a great incentivization right there. Now, let’s shift the conversation towards some of the data-related topics.

What does the team foresee as being some of the most valuable health data sets? Is it blood work? Is it DNA? Is it certain pairs of types of data? As we think about releasing new NFTs with new tests attached to them, what are the tests that will carry the most value in that data?

Michael Nova: If we consider the bigger picture, genetics contributes about 30 to 35% of overall healthcare issues, while the remaining 65 to 70% is influenced by lifestyle factors. So genetics is indeed significant, but it’s not the sole determining factor. Excuse me, as Linden mentioned earlier, we need to consider all the other data surrounding it to make it truly useful. The most valuable data we can obtain from individuals includes information about genetics, as well as outcome data and dynamic data that is up to date.

All of that information is incredibly valuable. So whether it’s lab testing or dog testing, it depends on what you’re trying to measure. All of that data is stored in your personal instance, creating a comprehensive collection of your information. In its entirety, your data is the most valuable asset we have, encompassing everything about you in one place that can be collected and continuously updated. It’s all valuable indeed.

Linden Leadbetter: Absolutely, I completely agree. There are certain high-value and straightforward questions that cover a wide range of lifestyle factors, such as sleep, diet, exercise, smoking, and alcohol consumption. These easy yes or no questions can provide valuable insights.

Jenny Diggles: Oh, definitely. All of that matters. Personally, I undergo blood tests three to four times a year because I know that by making changes, I can observe corresponding changes in my blood work. It allows me to correlate my actions with the results reflected in my blood tests. Additionally, I can track my energy levels and sleep quality. Having the ability to connect these observations with the internal mechanics of my body is quite fascinating to me.

Are you interested in adding more younger people to your team as JennyCo in particular is targeting that crowd?

Jenny Diggles: Yes, I agree. It’s important for us to have team members who understand and are familiar with app usage and have a natural understanding of how things work, especially since younger people are more inclined to use apps and have a better grasp of them. Adding individuals to our team who possess that perspective and passion for what lies ahead is crucial. However, it’s worth noting that people of all ages contribute to our team, but having younger individuals as ambassadors and brand champions is definitely valuable.

Michael Nova: Absolutely, I agree. Currently, our team is already quite diverse, and if you’re interested in joining us, we would love to have a conversation with you. I don’t have much else to add on that topic.

How do you guys see something like JennyCo fitting into the prevention of medical errors?

Michael Nova: Yeah, I think that’s a really good question. To provide more context, in the United States alone, there are a hundred thousand deaths each year because patients are given the wrong drug. That’s a significant number. So how can we prevent such issues? When it comes to pharmaceuticals, the more personalized data we have, including genetics and how individuals metabolize certain drugs, the better. Pharmacogenetics, which examines how genes affect drug response, can be highly beneficial in determining the right pharmaceutical agent. Additionally, there are various types of errors in the medical field, such as surgical and diagnostic errors. While technology has reduced diagnostic errors, we can still improve in this area and develop better outcome plans for patients. JennyCo can play a role in achieving these improvements.

Jenny Diggles: Medical malpractice is a significant issue. It’s challenging because human beings are complex, and sometimes patients may not have certain information about themselves that could help doctors make informed decisions. For example, when a doctor asks if I’m allergic to a medication I’ve never taken, it’s difficult to answer. It’s a complex problem to deal with, and often doctors have to resort to trial and error, which can lead to dangerous outcomes. Hopefully, with the use of the app and the ability to aggregate more personal information, patients can provide better information to doctors, leading to better decision-making instead of relying solely on a simple form and limited time with a doctor.

Stephen Carter: Let me add one more thing to that, Jenny. As our users add more data and information to their JennyCo profile, they can easily share that information with their doctor. This way, doctors can have access to crucial details that may not be readily available otherwise, such as allergies to specific drugs or drug families. Instead of relying on buried records in a medical center’s data room, patients can conveniently carry this information on their phone and share it with their doctor. It’s an option that can help address some of these issues.

Michael Nova: Here’s a specific example: in Taiwan, particularly among the Chinese population, there’s a gene that leads to a severe condition called Stevens-Johnson Syndrome when certain drugs like carbamazepine are administered. Screening for this gene has become mandatory in Taiwan, and individuals are required to include their gene status in their healthcare record. Screening for this gene has made a huge difference in their population, preventing fatal reactions to the drug.

Jenny Diggles: Absolutely. Our aim with this app is to empower people to be healthier and potentially reduce the frequency of doctor visits and the likelihood of encountering medical errors. By focusing on personal health management and being proactive, we can prevent future adverse events and improve overall well-being.

The JennyCo app will release later this summer. For more information about JennyCo, check out our website and follow us on socials:

Website: https://www.JennyCo.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/JennyCoInc

Telegram: https://t.me/JennyCoOfficial