Khanversations — Nefaur, Leesa, and Jaclyn
A conversation about meandering into design, relaxing into weirdness, Miyazaki films, and mastering a craft.
Tell us a little about yourself and your role at Khan Academy
Jaclyn: Hi! I’m Jaclyn. I’m from the Bay Area, and currently studying in Pittsburgh, PA (so I’m very thankful to spend this summer back in the sun.) I’m one month into my design internship, and so far I’ve been learning our new brand system and developing some visual materials that align with it, like this poster I designed for our GSRM (gender, sexual, and romantic minority) affinity group. 🌈✨
Leesa: Hello hello! I’m Leesa. I’m half-Australian, half-Danish — and currently living in Oakland, California with my fiancé, poodle, and seven chickens. I’m the UX Writing Lead. I’ve only been at Khan Academy for 4 weeks, so I’m also super new! Basically, I’m here to help us build a UX writing discipline: working closely with design, research, and PMs to shape the product experience through the lens of language. ;)
Nefaur: Howdy, y’all! I’m Nefaur (for now…I’ve definitely thought about changing my name more than a few times, and have even developed a set of criteria for the optimal name.) I work remotely from Brooklyn, and have been with Khan Academy for about 4.5 years — so I guess I’m one of the dinosaurs at this point? Nefaurosaurus Rex, to be specific. (Fun fact: I change my name on Slack every week to be a different pun of my actual name.) I’ve worked on a bunch of things, including the iOS and Android apps and the practice experience, but I’ve most recently been designing our in-house CMS, which our content team uses to create and localize engaging content for students.
How did you get into design?
Jaclyn: I was always interested in creating visual communication for an audience, so I kind of subconsciously fell into design. I would spend too much time formatting documents and spreadsheets, and I was very into Microsoft Paint. When I was in high school I focused on digital visual arts, but it was mostly self-led because my high school didn’t offer much in that realm.
Studying and working in this field has changed my perception of what design is. I still get questions like, “How is your artwork coming along?” from family members. Explaining what I do is tough. But it doesn’t really matter because design is definitely becoming more of a legitimate profession. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Leesa: Yeah it seems like over the last ten years, design has moved up in the world and designers, now more than ever, have a seat at the table. It’s finally recognized as this tool for solving big, systemic problems, you know?
For me, I got into design in a really roundabout way. When I was a kid, I wanted to be an animal behaviorist — basically, I wanted to be Jane Goodall. So I studied science and communications, and was working in market research, and writing for magazines on the side. That ‘on the side’ job became a full-time job writing for various design studios in Sydney. Time passed, and eventually I got to meld my writing experience with my research and behavioral interests when I moved across the ocean to be a Communication Designer at IDEO three and a half years ago. I’m still synthesizing, really, which is how I ended up here at Khan Academy working on really important social impact stuff with you lovely folks.
Nefaur: As a young’n I was really into sketching superheroes. And as I got into secondary school I started spending more and more time in front of the computer. At first I was just playing video games, but then I slowly got into programming, Photoshopping, and 3D modeling. When I applied to college I wasn’t sure whether I wanted to study art, architecture, or programming, but having Bengali parents made the decision easy — I ended up majoring in Computer Engineering. I think all I really wanted to do at that time was to make well-designed computing experiences, and it didn’t matter to me if it was software or hardware.
By the time I graduated I pretty much knew that I wanted to focus on user interfaces, but after working as an engineer at Apple for 5 years I realized I hated fixing bugs — for me, it was far more fun to write code to communicate ideas. I worked on design projects on the side, and eventually transitioned to a job as a creative technologist at Square, where I designed and prototyped interactions for UI. Over the next few years I branched out to other areas of design — starting with motion, and then eventually making my way into general product design. But since I didn’t go to school for design, I definitely have imposter syndrome from time to time. 🙈
On getting weird with Slack
Leesa: I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. We’re a really remote-friendly workplace. You know how, in an office, folks can get weird together pretty quickly, just by nature of proximity. What’s that like, as a remote designer Nefaur?
Nefaur: It took me a while, to be honest. In my early days here, I was told I came across very serious over written communication, because I tend to capitalize and punctuate most of my sentences with periods. Some friends gave me the feedback that I should try using more exclamation marks and emoji, and I’ve learned that I can actually fake having emotions pretty well... 🤖
Leesa: Yeah, I feel you on the Slack tone of voice. It’s a thing! When I get on Slack, I just instantly become a 14-year-old on MSN messenger. And, well, that’s not always the most professional tone of voice for every work situation… Or is it?
Jaclyn: I’m totally the opposite! I’m typically more cut and dry. Now I’m forcing myself to use exclamation points, for example. When I came here I had to get used to all the emoji and reactions and dancing unicorn GIFs everyone was using. They were overwhelming at first, but I like them now!
How am I doing? 🤓
Nefaur: I don’t use a ton of GIFs, mostly because I don’t feel like I have a great repertoire. I do have a favorite though: it’s from Spirited Away, when No-Face is getting buffeted by waves with a bunch of tiny words that say “feels.”
Oh, oh! Good segue. What’s your favorite Miyazaki film?
Jaclyn: I just watched Howl’s Moving Castle — it’s so pretty. I saw Spirited Away a long time ago but can’t remember it very well, so I should rewatch it.
Leesa: I used to have a crush on Howl. What a dreamboat.
Nefaur: Let me guess, your favorite film is Princess Mononoke ’cause you’re into nature and animals and are basically a tree-hugger like the Princess herself?
Leesa: I’d say Spirited Away! I’m into the classics. My favorite scene of all time is the market scene, where Chihiro is lost and her parents are turning into pigs and they’re just GORGING themselves. The way the food is animated in that scene is just mesmerizing — it’s all gloopy and perfect and makes me want to eat a feast of wobbly wobbly dumplings every day.
Jaclyn: I just watched that scene! I think I saw a job posting recently for a Studio Ghibli animator.
Nefaur: I don’t think I could hack it as an animator — while I enjoy sketching from time to time, the repetition involved in traditional animation would probably get boring really quickly.
How do you feel about that idea of mastering a single craft?
Jaclyn: I admire people who have the patience to master their craft, but I can’t imagine myself being that detail-oriented. I feel like the closest I’ve gotten to mastering something is when that thing facilitated some other goal — for example, I’ve mastered a bunch of design software because I wanted to design stuff.
Leesa: Have you seen Jiro Dreams of Sushi? He’s the quintessential craftsperson — he’s spent his entire life perfecting his craft of sushi: right down to the way he applies the final swash of soy sauce. The idea of a lifetime spent mastering one specific thing is a really fascinating and romantic notion to me — and probably not something I could ever hope to achieve. I love novelty too much! I’m more the kind of human that tries a million different roles, just for the joy of finding out what it’s like.
Nefaur: I’d like to think I’ve gotten better at certain things over the years, but the idea of being detail-oriented and perfecting one thing doesn’t really appeal to me. I’d rather spend time learning something new to broaden my perspective.
I think the closest I’ve come to mastery has been when the process felt good. I’m pretty kinesthetically sensitive, so some video games have felt like an extension of myself. Similarly, martial arts and dance feel good, so maybe I’ll end up mastering one of those by accident!
Khanversations is a series of dialogues between designers at Khan Academy to help us learn new things about each other.
P.S. We’re hiring, if you’re interested, check out our job listings!
Links to the series
👉🏽 Here’s May-Li’s introduction to the series, including a list of all the countries that were involved in our formation.
👉🏽 Elizabeth and Vivek on sneakers, fashion, capitalism, and how they got into design.
👉🏽 Louis and Erica on rearranging the furniture, skeuomorphic icons, and working in the federal government.
👉🏽 Cassey and Jacob on how neuropsychology, being an executive assistant, and not wanting to draw Mickey Mouse 1000 times could lead to a career in design.
👉🏽 May-Li and Priya on DJ coalitions, balancing consistency and creativity, and getting design gigs on Craigslist.
👉🏽 Taty and Kitt on impact, college access, and Harry Potter.
👉🏽 Sanyukta and Warren on futurism, weirdness, and side-projects.
👉🏽 Todd and Garrett on archery, beer miles, and career transitions.
👉🏽 Raph and Leo on accidentally falling into design, modular synthesizers, and making real physical things.
