Hail to the King
Bruce Campbell on Fandom
Life’s not easy for B movie stars.
Often the hardest working actors in Hollywood, these folks drift from film to television, animation to video games, going where the work is. They’re not the ones punching the clock on the latest summer blockbuster. These are the actors who count themselves lucky to work in what many consider a savage industry, the ones who truly appreciate what it means to have fans.
Occasionally, they’ll even land a role that earns them a cult following.
In his 35-year acting career, Bruce Campbell has had more than a few of those. Tall, dark, and handsome, Campbell starred in the canceled-before-its-time serialized Western, The Adventures of Brisco County Jr. He had roles on television’s Hercules, Xena, and most recently, Burn Notice. And his square jaw and cleft chin served him well as Ash Williams, the retail clerk thrust into a battle with the forces of evil, in Sam Raimi’s Evil Dead series.
An actor, writer, and director, Campbell loves to work. He also loves the fans that make it possible. We spoke recently about fan culture and what he’s been up to.
You’re working on a project right now called Last Fan Standing. What’s the story behind that?
Last Fan Standing is an offshoot of an idea from about a year ago. A guy named Steve Sellery contacted me about a trivia game that he and another partner, Philip Van Munching, created — they were doing it at a military base in San Antonio, Texas, for a bunch of soldiers, and he asked if I would host it. I’d done a few things for the troops before, so I said, “All right, yeah.” And what it is, is when each soldier came in, they got a clicker, and one person, not pre-screened, was gonna walk out of there alive.
It was totally interactive, and just the way the tension built and the way it was structured, I said to Steve afterward, “Man, if you could take that and translate that to the Comic-con world, it’s right up their alley.” So, we tested it, retooled it, and took it to these Wizard conventions. Everybody came in, everybody got a clicker, and we went through the rounds — one person who walked in there, dazed and confused, wound up being the last fan standing.
So it really starts with everybody in the audience?
Oh yeah, this is a game for schmoes. This is a game for walking right in off the street, which… we don’t want to hire serial killers to answer questions, but at the same time, an eighteen-year-old girl came from behind, and people were cheering. Some guys start out strong then they fizzle, some guys are all talk then they choke, some guys come from behind. We did it ten times in two different cities and had a blast. Fans at these conventions can be very shy, socially, but if you get ‘em going man, and you get ‘em in a sweet spot… Look, you’re playing right into their hands. “How much does Thor’s hammer weigh?” Other people might make fun of them for answering these questions, but we want to give them prizes for how much they know.
So it’s by fans, for fans.
Fans are influencing today’s movies, more than ever. Between Game of Thrones, the Avengers movies, Iron Man, and fantastic this and fantastic that, it’s never-ending. But who’s driving it? The fans are driving it. So, we thought what the heck. Now what we’re hoping to do is open it up, and see if fans are willing to empty their pockets to help us do more of these shows. We want to take it on the road. We’d kind of like to gear up, shoot some more and give the fans what they’re hopefully looking for.
That’s excellent. Didn’t you also direct a film about fandom?
Yeah, I had done this short film called Fanalysis and Anchor Bay stuck it onto one of their Evil Dead releases [in 2002]. It’s a random documentary I made about fans. Everything from fan mail to interacting and going to conventions, and the different levels of fans, from the casual fans to the very dangerous fan.
So, fandom has been around for decades now, but it feels like it’s really taken off recently. Shooting that short, did you get any ideas on why fandom has become so culturally significant?
I think it’s all been fueled by social media. Fans are now connected. You instantly have ten thousand people who are kind of on the same page as you. The social aspects are very strong. There are people who are getting laid at these things. These are people who stay up all night playing games — not so much rowdy drinkers or whatever — but it’s a chance to really let off a lot of steam for these folks. These things have proliferated!
I use this example a lot: When I was a kid if I saw a movie, let’s say the original Poseidon Adventure, I wouldn’t know how much it had cost. I would know that Gene Hackman was in it and maybe a couple other people, but I wouldn’t know anything about them. I wouldn’t have seen any interviews with them. Maybe I’d have read a newspaper article about it, but on Monday I wouldn’t know if it succeeded, and I wouldn’t know how much it made, and I wouldn’t know the per screen average. But now, everybody knows that. Everybody at the mall knows, “Wow, boy, Fantastic Four, man that really took a shit.” We wouldn’t have known that! As a teenager I would have gone, “Wow, where’d that movie go?” And I wouldn’t have known another thing about it.
Absolutely. So that’s the transformation that the internet granted — it’s like the magic wand of the internet touched it. But this was a culture that existed before that right?
Well, conventions did exist for a while, yeah. My first one was about 1988, but obviously they go back way earlier than that. They just didn’t proliferate. I remember there were Star Trek conventions. But man it has exploded. Horrorhound, HorrorFest, my god. And hey, I’m grateful for every creaky broken-down exploitation actor out there who can now get invited to these things, and hobble himself over to a table and take pictures with people who love them.
That seems like it’s a win-win thing right?
It is. Cause look, I couldn’t meet Shatner. William Shatner was one of my favorite guys on TV. But at the time there was nothing, I couldn’t meet him. He was like a phantom, like most movie or TV stars. Now, what kills me too, is conventions used to be Burt Ward and Adam West, guys who did a show thirty years ago who now, this is what they do. Bullshit! Not anymore. Now you got Jeremy Renner, who was just at the last Chicago convention where I was. You got the guys from Walking Dead — Norman Reedus was there — from current shows, and not only current shows but current hit shows.
It’s a perpetuation machine right? They’re going, and talking about what they’ve done, but also hyping the next thing.
Oh, it’s all 50/50 now. It’s amazing — conventions continue to change, ameoba-like, based on what people are into. But you’ll still have your Lou Ferrignos, and guys like that. If Wizard is smart, they’ll keep it: current guys, medium guys and ancient guys.
Have there been any moments at these things where you were the fan rather than the object of fandom?
Oh man, Julie Newmar — the original Catwoman from Batman. Forget it. I got to meet her back in the greenroom. I was speechless. Barbara Eden, from I Dream of Jeannie. I just told her flat out, you were hot and I wanted to hit that. I geek out in the greenroom all the time. My buddy Burt Reynolds who I met on Burn Notice, he also was up at the Chicago Comic-con.
Going back to you as the object of fandom, did you ever have a moment, or do you remember the first time you thought, “Holy shit, I have fans.”
You know what it was? I think when I published my first book, If Chins Could Kill: Confessions of a B Movie Actor. I had a book signing in Schaumburg, Illinois, and I remember I looked outside and I was like, I’m never going to be able to sign all these books. It’s not possible. Hey look, plenty of authors have blown me away, this is nothing, but I think it was like an 800-book day. Which, for me, it took me like six hours of just solid signing. And so, occasionally you go, wow, damn. I’ve had other signings too where nobody shows up, but yeah, it’s nice to know that there are people who will wait in the rain and the fog and the sleet to show up.
Absolutely. So, you’re famous in a few different cult circles I guess. You got Brisco County Jr., you got the Hercules and Xena crowd… does it always come back to Ash from The Evil Dead?
It’s weird, I’ve sort of found that it comes back to what people dig. A lot of people discovered me retroactively. Someone from Burn Notice, they’re like, oh weird, that old guy made these weird horror movies years ago. I’ve got some Burn Notice fans who aren’t really horror fans, and then I’ve got Evil Dead fans who go, “Hey man, what’ve you been up to?” I’m like, “What have I been up to? I’ve been working my ass off on 111 Burn Notice episodes over a seven-year period.” It was the number one show on cable in its heyday, and these people — right over their heads.
I realized that there’s no point scolding people, going, “Don’t you know what else I’ve been in?” People only watch what they watch. I’ve had Brisco fans who know I’ve been in Evil Dead movies but no way in hell they’re watching them. These are Western fans. These are sci-fi fans. They’re not horror fans. Believe it or not, I’m more pigeonholed and typecast by my fans than by the industry itself!
You’re held in their hearts as a certain role.
Yeah, one that’s dear to them. Meanwhile, in the industry, I’ve done Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, I’ve done The Love Bug. I either do unrated stuff or Disney stuff. It’s all over the map.
Out of all those, do you have one you think is the closest to Bruce Campbell? Were there any you’ve ever played where you’re like, this guy is like me.
I don’t know. I’m much more subtle than anything I’ve ever played. I’d have to do a very low key character.
Which, even in My Name is Bruce [a 2007 self-satirizing horror flick], you’re a turned up version of you.
Yeah, I’m a little bit cranked up there. Thank god that’s not me. Funny thing is, see, technically that movie could’ve worked if my name was Dirk Bigwater and I was in like C-grade movies, the movies that function on a basic premise. By calling that guy Bruce Campbell, we made it more confusing, and what’s funny about that is there’s going to be someone that goes, “God you’re really mean to your dog. You feed him whiskey? You really live in a trailer? You drink whiskey out of a dog bowl?” I’m sure there’s like 1% of people who watched that movie who were a little confused by that.
So, if you can’t necessarily align with one role more than the others, do you have one that was just a good time? Was one part a favorite?
Don’t forget, good times are dangerous, because it means you’re not really working that hard. People always really want to get a response — when I work on the Evil Dead movies people want to hear me say what a great time it was, and that couldn’t be further from the truth. These things are oppressive nightmares to make. They’re uncomfortable, they’re physically challenging, you’re doing dark material — sometimes there’s humor — but Sam [Raimi]’s an incredibly challenging director. None of it is easy. None of his shots are easy. None of what he wants you to do is easy. But are they creatively satisfying? Yeah, like crazy. So, there is a tough distinction.
I have a theory that a movie that is easy to make is hard to watch, and somewhat the opposite. And this last series was a pain in the ass to shoot.
A lot of blood in the face again?
Massive quantities. Massive quantities. Look, we shot the first Evil Dead thirty-six years ago now, so we’re just grateful that there are people who still remember that there’s an Evil Dead, the way the attention spans are now. You know, since the Ash vs. Evil Dead trailer broke, we’re at fifteen million hits on Facebook.
That’s the new series on Starz that comes out on Halloween.
Yeah, that one. For some reason, television has just upped its game like a motherscratcher. All the good actors are on TV, it seems like all the good writing is on TV, the filmmakers have flocked to television. Everyone was always clamoring for another movie but, economically, is Sam Raimi going to make a $100 million Evil Dead movie? That doesn’t make any sense, whereas, for the same amount of money you can do multiple seasons of a TV show. So that was part of the reason this because a TV show, because, economically it made way more sense. You make one movie, you roll that die, nobody shows up that weekend, you’re dead. This, you roll it out, they promote it, people hear about it, you got time to grow.
And the fans get more out of it.
Oh, it’s so geared for the fans. Almost shamelessly so.
Plus, in terms of quantity, fans could either sit through a 90 minute movie, or you could get a whole season.
In our case, over twelve years we delivered four and a half hours of material to fans. In one weekend you can watch five new hours. You know what I mean? Again, another reason fans should be happy if they like the Evil Dead stuff. The amount of material they’ll be getting because of a TV show will be exponentially greater than any feature we could ever do. I mean, every week you’re cranking out multiple minutes — way more than a feature. We’ve got five hours that they can chew through starting on Halloween.
These ten episodes, it was actually really cool to play Ash again, and now expand him and have him interact with new characters. He’s solving a mystery. He’s a leader. It’s a different role now that I get to play him in a series. But, the guy uses slang and vernacular, and he’s not politically correct, and he’s just kind of out of it sometimes. He’s an incredibly flawed hero. Normally if you spent a lot of money on a TV show you wouldn’t be able to have a flawed hero like that. So, thank god for Starz.
I also want to address the fans: Don’t complain that you gotta get Starz to watch the show. They gotta understand, Starz is the only place that allows us to give them the show that they need to see. You want it for free on cable, part of your cable package? You’re not gonna get Evil Dead like you need it. The only way you can get this unrated TV show is to go through a subscription-based thing where there are no broadcast restrictions. You’re paying for the right to see something that is unrestricted… that costs more, that’s just the way it is.
Do you think you’d have wound up where you are without The Evil Dead?
Well, you gotta start somewhere. In our case, all roads definitely lead back to that. So, in a way, you can say we’re finally crawling back into the womb. We’ve finally come full circle. Part of the real joy of this was working with Sam again — more day-to-day than popping in for a cameo. You know we hadn’t really worked together in this capacity since Army of Darkness, and that was twenty-four years ago, as long as I’ve been married. So, what was nice is, he’s learned some tricks, I’ve learned some tricks, we get to share as much more professional people.
We were total amateurs on Evil Dead, we had a little more chops on Evil Dead II, on Army of Darkness we were kind of hitting our stride. And now, I think we’re both seasoned veterans at what we do. And what was great is respecting him and I think he respected what I could do. It was great, it was a really nice time and a lot of inside jokes that only he and I really laughed about, and that’s all that mattered. And mostly my performance was geared toward entertaining him at the monitor.
That makes me deeply excited for this show.
Well listen, we gave the fans a remake a couple years ago! We thought all right, you guys are clamoring for it, we’re gonna give it to ya. And that thing, no question about it, performed really well around the world. But there was a lingering sentiment of, well, you know, thanks but that’s still not the real thing.
It was frustrating going to conventions, I never really had an answer. Sam was busy doing Spider-Man movies, I was doing Burn Notice, and lives move on. You get distracted and other projects come up, and so, the fact that this finally gelled was pretty amazing.
All along you got those questions, and now….
Now I can say, you got it. You got the real thing. You got the real director. He directed the opening episode, which sets the tone for the whole series. And you got the guy who played Ash. You got the middle aged version of him. Which, my feeling is, Ash is even more fun now than before. He was unqualified back then, in his prime, and now he’s a guy who really doesn’t want to deal with any of this horseshit. He’s thrown back into it. To me, that’s the fun of it. This guy is like, holy shit, I gotta deal with this now? A guy that really just wants to go bowling, and get drunk, and chase chicks at the closing of a bar.
I know fans will be stoked on this no matter what, but do you think the questions will stop?
No, because now they’ll go, when’s the feature? But, here’s the thing, Army of Darkness sort of killed the franchise in a way. Now, ironically, what might happen is that with a successful TV show, it might resurrect the features again. Television has the power of coming into millions of people’s homes week after week. A feature comes along and might stay in theaters for a couple weeks. TV shows can stick around for years, and that really leaves an imprint on people’s brains. Then when you do a movie they go, oh yeah, I’ve seen that. So, it could easily lead to more features. And I know Sam has ideas that are fun ways to keep the series going. Never say never.
It’s just amazing to me that it’s a twenty-four-year gap. To me that’s the most ridiculous of all. Most people — no one is even married for twenty-five years, that’s like a good solid marriage. And that’s how long it’s been since we’ve made one of these movies.
I feel like even five, six years ago Ash vs. Evil Dead isn’t the kind of thing that could have happened, on Starz or otherwise. But now, with competition from…
Well, cause you know why? Every company wants to grow right? AMC was like, “Hey you know what? We’re kind of tired of showing other people’s movies. Let’s show our own stuff. Now we got it coming and going.” You own both ends of the lit fuse. That’s all yours. Same with Netflix. Now imagine the database of what Netflix has, of what movies rented the most, what TV shows. They can look at that and go, “Wow, I think maybe we should do shows just like this.” It’s a chance for them to be really resourceful with the data that they’ve been amassing for years. Between Hulu, Netflix, and Amazon? Imagine the database of Amazon! These people, their preferences, their personal preferences? It’s staggering.
Now for an actor though, it’s kind of good news bad news. There’s a lot of work out there because everybody’s doing shows. But there’s only 9 people watching each of these shows rather than twenty million. So your advertising dollars have shrunk like crazy so now your budgets are going to shrink. The good news is, you can work, but you’re not making any money.
Well, maybe on the back end right? You’re creating even more cult hits.
Well, I think, as they say, in success everyone will work it out. You know, when everything becomes live streamed, every button you push will get counted, and every purchase you make will get divvied up just like at the box office. So they’ll figure it out, but the industry has to adapt with technology. Some of these companies you can tell are really groping. So companies like Amazon that have already lived in the digital world, none of this fazes them. They got this shit down, they know how it works.
So with all of these services making stuff specifically for these target audiences, how do you see fandom changing?
Fandom? The fans should pat themselves on the back. They’ve taken over the fucking world.
