BTP: Journey into Research with Valerie Mensah-King & Katie Barkley

Behind the Pixels is a conversational blog series that aims to give a glimpse into the work & life of being a designer at Klaviyo

AH: Starting off in classic behind the pixels fashion, can you both introduce yourselves, how long you’ve been a UX researcher and then how long you’ve been at Klaviyo?

KB: I can start! I am a researcher on the App-Intelligence side — joined the team just a couple weeks after Valerie on a new research team that was forming. Currently, I’m conducting research for segmentation, profile properties, lists, and product merchandising teams. In these pods we’re concerned with innovative and easy ways for our customers to access data about their customers in an actionable way. And how long have I been here? It will be a year by the end of September.

AH: And how long have you been a researcher?

KB: I’ve been a researcher for two years actually — it’ll be my two year anniversary of being a researcher soon!

AH: Happy anniversary! And Valerie?

VM: I’ll start with how long I’ve been a researcher. I’ve been a researcher officially since 2019. I initially thought product design was going to be where I would land, but research called out to me because I had a background in sociology from undergrad and I was like, ‘Hey, look at all those things that you were doing as an undergrad and how applicable they are to what it they’re calling UX research or design research.’ I’ve been here at Klaviyo for about a year and my work has been sort of floating in the ether between App-Communications and App-Intelligence understanding what some of the common points are.

AH: So both of you had previous lives before you were researchers. And I’m curious if you can tell us a little bit about your journey into research and what led you here. What kinds of roles did you have before you were a formal researcher?

KB: I feel like we’re kind of gonna be the same in the way that Valerie said, where you get into industry after doing a couple of things prior and being exposed to research. For me, I was in a graduate program, getting a statistics masters in early 2020, at the beginning of the pandemic. During my graduate program, our research group launched and analyzed survey research that started at University of Delaware about different age group’s reaction to COVID-19 protective behaviors. As a research team, we were trying to understand the different factors that influence people’s propensity to wear a mask and receive the COVID-19 vaccine. I think that work was integral to my understanding of underlying motivators for behavior and how statistics can be used to uncover those. In that role, I was really intrigued by the why behind the numbers. Like I can understand it analytically, but I wanted more of an understanding of things like, ‘why is this age group saying that they don’t want to wear a mask and they don’t want to get the vaccine’. So, that role is one of the reasons why I leaned into mixed methods research that starts with looking through a quantitative lens and then focuses outwards towards qualitative work.

Then after that, I was an analyst at a startup that focused on the same topic, health research. We were trying to help this telehealth startup understand how users’ engagement fluctuates in regards to their level of concerns with data privacy, forming new doctor-patient relationships, etc. A lot of our tools were quant base with work through surveys and analytics, but one-day I was just sitting there thinking, ‘I have all this data, I see all these numbers and graphs, but what is the underlying factor as to why this thing is increasing or why this thing is decreasing’. So I think getting at the why is the reason why I got into research.

AH: So ‘why?’, is the why. I love it.

VM: I would definitely echo the why sentiments, that was what pushed me to study sociology as an undergraduate student. It was something that had always fascinated me, why do people organize themselves in these ways? Why do people take these types of actions? I graduated from college in 2011. Didn’t really know how to plug a sociology degree into the world, didn’t know about UX research, didn’t know about design research, didn’t know about any of that. I did a couple years of AmeriCorps and worked in the nonprofit sector before transitioning to healthcare.

Outside of work, I was pursuing graphic design. I pivoted because the field was moving towards digital, so I wanted to know how I could activate what I’d learned on that side. And that’s when I started to pursue Human Computer Interaction (HCI) thinking I want to be a product designer. However, I definitely dug into the courses that were a lot more research intensive.

Studying HCI helped orient my awareness of human centered design and how research informs that kind of work. Also shout out to my former manager at Oak Street, he was super, super encouraging of me taking things that I was learning outside of work and bringing them in where applicable.

AH: It sounds like both of you had a gradual interest in research that led you down a path that eventually became a career. But did either of you have a defining moment where you realized ‘I’m supposed to be a researcher!’?

VM: I’m gonna be honest, I was like, ‘I hope I can be a researcher’ — that was my thought [Laughs] From my observation, the masters program I came out of was very structured in supporting folks to become product designers (things may have shifted since then) . A lot of the coursework I experienced was about prototyping, coding, information architecture etc. There were a few courses that they put in the program that were strictly oriented towards research and it was so interesting, because a lot of my cohort was like, ‘Ugh, why do we have to do this? Why do we have to write these papers?’ And I was just like, ‘This is great! I really hope I can do this professionally because I feel like being a designer is hard too.’ It’s hard in a different way. And in some ways, I thought being a researcher would let me play the strengths that I had (and continue) to cultivate.

I definitely have a great appreciation for graphic design and product design, but it seemed like being a researcher would allow me to use my strengths from the humanities while being in the tech field. So there was this hope, like I hope there is room for me to do this. It wasn’t a light bulb moment. It was a steady realization that I really could merge past and present interests.

AH: And look at you now! Well, it’s interesting, Valerie with your sociology background and then Katie with your quantitative background, that you’re both using that knowledge in your research. I’m curious how your prior experiences in those spaces have influenced how you approach design research?

KB: Yeah, I would say my background has influenced the way that I approach research. Actually in a role prior to this when I was a researcher, most of the researchers would immediately utilize interviews to understand more about our users in the qualitative realm. And if they needed to size some things, they’d drill in a little bit further with analytics. But it’s weird, for me especially, a lot of colleagues on that team were like, ‘Oh, well, that’s interesting that you’re starting backwards right? You’re not committing to the qualitative research and then quantitative research execution of the workflow; you’re going to quant and then qual.’ So I would say working in a more quantitative realm as an analyst and then as a survey researcher has influenced me to work with analytics and surveys to answer some initial questions that way. This workflow comes from that epiphany I had one day where I would see concrete numbers on the graph with some anomalies here and there; let me get at the fuzzy underlying things that can’t be explained on a graph. So I would say those quantitative roles influenced my workflow and then, like Valerie was saying, education plays a part into how our brain thinks. When you specialize in one discipline like stats, it definitely has a lasting impression on your thought processes and thus influences your initial path forward in solving problems. But now instead of adhering to one discipline, I get to do both. Now I get the best of both worlds!

VM: Both worlds 100%. And I would say coming from a primarily qualitative background I definitely appreciate working in an environment with folks that are really well versed and comfortable with quant because it is this back and forth. I gravitate towards qualitative because I think that as humans, it is compelling to talk about our behavior in terms of what’s desirable. That’s just an innate human thing, to say things that are desirable and encouraged. And that can filter down even into how we answer questions and how we engage with folks in basic interviews.

One of the things that I love is pulling apart what someone says and having them dig deeper into a response they’ve given because it allows me an opportunity to bypass some of those “defenses” in an unassuming and empathetic way. Actually one of the more advanced research techniques I’ve observed and learned is that occasionally when you’re in a session with a participant, sometimes the interview guide goes out the window because they say something that inadvertently can portal you towards what you were actually interested in the first place. This is why active, empathetic, non-solution based listening is a discipline of research that is easier to describe than to do. You didn’t let your imposed order of what you thought was important take control of the conversation, you’re letting participants open up to you in their own way to speak more plainly, and hopefully, honestly about their process challenges, and unidentified needs. At the end of the day, that’s what’s most important for our work as researchers.

If we can understand why people are doing things the way that they’re doing them — back to the big why’s — it allows us to actually design accurately. In our work it’s not about judging how people use technology, however as representatives of an organization such as ours we still have to be mindful to structure our practice such that we can build rapport and gain trust in a short period of time. I think that’s why interviews in particular are so energy-consuming because I feel like if someone can sense that you’re judging, or worse, trying to problem solve in the moment, they will know that you’re not really listening and that can quietly limit what you learn from them. When you’re actively listening and not trying to troubleshoot or judge you can hear a lot more interesting things to follow up on which can actually open up a whole world of new information.

AH: Yeah, that’s fascinating. Okay, changing gears a little bit to the Klaviyo side of the house. Does one of you want to share the biggest challenge you’re facing doing research at Klaviyo right now?

KB: Biggest challenge — I’ll say speaking on [their] behalf I don’t want to put words in the research mouth — I think that there’s so much interest in research that it can be difficult to say no to some requests. Luckily Klaviyo is very much a research oriented culture that the product team’s interest in research is still alive and well even if the research team isn’t directly involved in it for that moment in time.

AH: So much to do, so many people to teach how to do it — you got your work cut out for you, but we’re all very happy you all are here. All right, Valerie, for you. What are you the most excited about in the future of research here?

VM: I’m actually excited for the next two quarters, because I know there have been a couple of realignments around what we’re focusing on as an organization. Also our team has expanded at the same time and so I feel like [we’re] now in this research mega-zoid mode, having multiple researchers across these pods and across our pillars to really showcase what our team is capable of now that we’re more fleshed out.

I think what may have been a little bit challenging was when we were at limited capacity, back to what Katie was saying, prioritizing where we were going to plug ourselves in, what kinds of research aims were we going to tackle and what was going to be the best use of our time. Now that we have a bigger team, there’s going to be more of that tactical to exploratory range, and not necessarily needing to sacrifice what kinds of questions are important to our partners and what are important for getting the company oriented in the right direction. I think we’re going to be much better suited to support so that’s the most exciting part for me.

AH: Cool. Yeah, that sounds exciting.

KB: Are we allowed to talk about CDP land?

AH: I believe so!

KB: Yeah, I was going to say the research in that realm specifically is really exciting. Especially coming from the App-Intelligence side. Just thinking about people’s reactions to CDPs in general, I know that there’s an interest in it. And there’s so many strides that can be made at Klaviyo when we’re focusing on that and how to make data as accessible and usable as possible for our users in the ways that they’ve already expressed interest in. Building upon that is something that I’m excited for in the App-Intelligence realm!

AH: All right, I know we’re out of time, so you’ll have to give me the two sentence version, but for those people out there who are taking their own meandering path to research or like asking questions and looking for the ‘why’, what is the best piece of advice that you can give to them?

KB: You know, I would say two things. The first thing I would say is stay hungry and thirsty for knowledge. There are so many methods out there that you can use, and it can be a little bit overwhelming when you first start. Like okay, what do I do? Do I do qual or do I do quant? Is this at the beginning of the product lifecycle? Is it towards the end? Are we iterating? Are we exploring? There’s so many different methods. I would say to stay interested in the fundamental ways to extract insights from each of these scenarios and continue to learn about the research function overall. Like understanding how it’s evolving because the field is always evolving. I feel like research in UX was not as big as a thing five years ago, so it’s really blown up. And it can kind of be overwhelming at first to get into the field, but remain open to what you can learn and then once you’re in the field remain open to feedback. Always know that there are some things that you can modify, so please remain open to feedback from colleagues who are experts in an area of research that you haven’t explored yet. Moral of the story is to never say no to learning more in various contexts; whether it be from a textbook when you first start in UXR or from someone on your team when you break into industry. I think those are the most important things, but what about you Valerie? Is there something else I’m missing?

VM: I mean, you hit on at least what I was going to say towards the end. I think especially if you’re interested in research at Klaviyo it’s a highly collaborative experience. I don’t know if I’ve worked at a place where it hasn’t been, but I do know that there are some places that have the research function in its [own] box, everything in its box. I think research at Klaviyo is definitely one of those things where you’re bringing your strength but you’re adding to other people’s strengths.

We have excellent partners from product analytics, product, Voice of Customer, market research, customer advocacy. We are working across so many different groups that are also doing research. And so it’s really not about being a lone rock star. It’s about being like, ‘Hey, here’s what I’ve learned, or here’s what my colleague has learned.’ I think we spend a lot of time routing inquiries to other teams or colleagues familiar with a line of inquiry. ‘Oh, you’re asking this question. My colleague over here has done this. Maybe that’ll help you’. That’s again, going back to the point of making sure that we’re tamping down on duplicative efforts and plugging research that was previously completed into our process so that we’re constantly building on what we’ve learned prior.

When you’re thinking with a collaborative spirit, it’s easier to open doors so that information can move across the organization and nothing is being held so tightly or so siloed that it doesn’t get socialized, doesn’t get shared because I think that’s the death of research — when you find knowledge but you can’t socialize it and nobody can act on it. And that right there is every researcher’s nightmare that they seek to avoid. So, yeah, staying collaborative, staying connected.

AH: Love it — learn, collaborate, share!

🛣🕵️‍♀️— I can personally vouch for the expertise of Valerie and Katie. It’s really cool to have a research team and more generally a design team full of people that come from a diversity of backgrounds!

Think your interesting background could help make our design team better? We’re always looking for great people to join our team.