Inside the Vault
A conversation with Mike Dashe of Dashe Cellars
By Collin Casey
Collin is sommelier and beverage director at Namu Gaji, in San Francisoc’s Mission District, and a sixteen year wine business veteran who likes to party.
Mike Dashe is the co-winemaker/co-proprietor of Dashe Cellars, in Oakland, CA, which he runs with his wife, Anne. His wines have got to be some of the most universally beloved that I know of, boasting placements on ultra-conventional to ultra-geeky wine lists around the country. Mike is known for rescuing the reputation of the Zinfandel grape among the serious wine crowd with his approachable yet high-toned style of winemaking. I’ve known Mike for a handful of years now, and occasionally wind up drinking too much with the man. This occasion was no exception.
On this occasion, I met up with Mike at my restaurant, Namu Gaji, for a bite first, to catch up. Each of us brought a few bottles of wine to try during the interview. Bottles were opened and emptied over several hours, then we made meandered our way into his kitchen and eventually, to the interview. These are the highlights.
CPC: Mike, to begin, why don’t you take the folks at home through your illustrious career in wine?
MD: Oh, my gosh. The highlights of my career. I’ve had what now seems like a quite long and, in retrospect, somewhat illustrious career in the wine business. I’ve had my winery for 17 years. Before that, I worked at Ridge Vineyards for almost nine years as Assistant Winemaker and was Winemaker at the Lytton Springs winery for the last four or five years of that tenure. And prior to that, I worked at some great wineries like Chateau Lafite Rothchild, Cloudy Bay in New Zealand, Far Niente in Napa and Schramsburg in the ‘80s. So it’s been a long road.
CPC: Early on, when the natural wine movement was still getting its legs, you were one of, if not the first of the domestic darlings of that movement’s supporters. While I am sure that you were happy that people were enjoying your wines, it was and remains a polarizing movement in wine. It’s chock full of dogma on both sides of the fence. How did or does that feel to be pulled into that conversation and particularly as a “totem grower” of the naturalist side?
MD: Well, it’s funny because I never really thought of myself that way. When I came back from France, I only applied to one place. I didn’t even know that they were hiring. I just wrote them a letter and told them that I love their wines and that was that. When I started working at Ridge, Paul [Draper, Ridge’s head winemaker since 1969] had always been making wine with native yeast fermentations. So one of my biggest jobs was beginning to make wine in a “natural, organic” way. When I left to start my own winery, I just continued to make wine the way that I had been used to making them for all of those years at Ridge. When the natural wine movement started, I had all of these people telling me that I was the first “natural” winemaker in California, which I wasn’t. Paul had been doing it for years. I think I’ve made my own style since leaving Ridge. It’s not Ridge wine. I’ve maybe been a little bolder than some of the people whom I knew. Bordeaux wasn’t my model. Cru Beaujolais and the Loire are my models. They were so thrilling, so exciting. The wines being made in California were so fruit forward, high-alcohol and monochromatic and got great press, but to me that wasn’t all that California could do. When I was in college in the 80s, California wines were blowing me away. They were much lower in alcohol and they were gorgeous. That’s what inspired me to make wine.
CPC: I think it’s the fact that so much of the naturalist movement is headquartered in the Loire and in Beaujolais and there is such a distinct tie between those wines and your wines… you just sort of became part of the conversation. And I’m definitely with you on old California wine. The wines from the 60s, 70s, and 80s are amazing. My mentor ran the biggest wine list in the world for about 10 years and he was the one who sort of made me pay attention to them. As you might imagine, he had this great collection, and he pulled bottles from there all the time. I consider it a major turning point in my understanding of wine when I, given the opportunity to request old Bordeaux, Burgundy, Vouvray or whatever, requested some old California stuff. The wines were amazing and the terroir still is.
MD: Absolutely. I had some ’77 and ’79 Beaulieu “Georges de la Tour” that were made by Andre Tchelistcheff, a legendary California winemaker and were just stellar. These were 30-40 year old wines that were just stellar.
CPC: You bring up Paul Draper, which brings me to something I wanted to ask you. I think that in the wine business, if you’re doing it the right way, you’ve got a mentor. Mentorship is just how it works. There’s too much information to learn on your own, and sometimes it’s all about having that guy over your shoulder waving a stick. I wanted to ask who you see as your mentors and inquire as to what extent to which you keep in touch with them.
MD: Well, there’s no question that in my nine years at Ridge, Paul Draper was my mentor. I think he’s a master blender. I worked super-closely with him for years, just watching the way that he creates those layers of wine. And the passion and intensity that he puts into winemaking and particularly the construction of wine, almost like an art piece. He was a major mentor. And even though I only worked at Lafite for four months as an intern, the winemaker at Lafite taught me more in those four months than almost anyone, anywhere. I loved my time working there. To look at the quality of the fruit, the way that they grew things and the intensity with which they worked on the winemaking… it was spectacular. Gerard Roquevin was the winemaker at the time. I think he retired in ’91. He was such a talented winemaker, and he loved to teach people. I had millions of questions and he was very patient in responding to me.
CPC: In the years that have passed since working with these gentlemen, have you seen or spoken with either of them with any regularity?
MD: Monsieur Roquevin, no. But Paul Draper I see fairly regularly at events and… for years after I left Ridge, I would call him up with questions. I feel very close to Paul and his wife, Maureen. We see each other fairly infrequently, but I loved the time that I worked with him, it meant a tremendous amount to me and I still consider him a close friend.
CPC: Changing gears, you’re perhaps best known for “liberating” Zinfandel…
MD: Thank you!
CPC: … but the style of all of your wines imply a love of food. As a food lover, where in the Bay Area do you like to eat?
MD: Well, having married a French woman who loves to cook, and I like to cook as well, we eat here a lot. But yeah, I moved to San Francisco in ’81, so I’ve been here a long time. And I think that in the last 10 years the quality of the food has just been astounding. The number of great restaurants that have opened up… I think the subtlety and the quality has just been great. I remember when Slanted Door opened up, I was living 5 blocks away. So it opened up, and I started eating there immediately…
CPC: A magical confluence!
MD: … Yeah, so Mark was the sommelier there of course, and he started buying my Sangiovese right away, which was great. And there was a place called The Flying Saucer that was amazing. But right now you’ve got Nopa, State Bird Provisions… There are so many great restaurants.
But there are so many great new restaurants that have popped up, and now that the kids of gotten older we have started exploring more of them. In Oakland, where the winery is, our favorite restaurant is Camino, I think.
CPC: Camino is awesome. You mention Anne which brings to mind another question. I remember Joe Dressner (Louis/Dressner Imports) being outwardly annoyed with the promotion of his tastings emphasizing only the presence of him and/or his growers and not that of his wife and business partner, Denyse Louis. It really pissed him off. I notice that the press often skips over Anne’s role at Dashe in similar fashion. Do you think that this is emblematic of an accepted sexism in the industry? Or is it by design that Anne is less of a media presence?
MD: Actually, I think there may be a little bit of sexism in all that, but I think it really speaks more to Anne being more than happy to not be in the limelight. She never wanted to be a star, or “Celebrity Winemaker.” She just wanted to make wine the way she wanted to make wine. Certainly, from the very beginning Anne and I worked completely as a team and did the whole production together. Anne is a stellar winemaker from start to finish. After the kids were born, she focused more on the blending, which is really where the winemaking happens. Our style is completely dependent on the symbiosis of Anne and myself in blending and tasting everything. Every lot is tasted by both of us, and her European palate I think has more to do with the flavor profile of Dashe than anything. We bring in this great California fruit, which I think she loves to work with, and she wants to bring in this subtlety and complexity that I think is really much more European. I get enthusiastic about bringing in this great, intense fruit and she’s the one saying “Okay, now let’s add some subtlety and layers to it” and really make an interesting wine. So, she’s been an intense part of it from the beginning, but as the years have gone by, she has suggested that I really take more of a role as the front person of the winery, just because she thinks it’s maybe confusing for people that we have two winemakers. And I think that speaks tremendously to her force of character and her ability to work behind the scenes and make great wine.
CPC: Okay… The classic wine person question: If you had to drink one grape variety for the rest of your life, what would it be?
MD: Holy, tamoley. That’s a lot of pressure.
CPC: Clearly, I’m not the first person to ask you this.
MD: Well, I think about the best wines I’ve had from Beaujolais and… I wouldn’t kick great Burgundy out of bed for eating crackers…
CPC: Let’s just call it one wine region then… for the rest of your life…
MD: Well, Beaujolais and Burgundy are both…
CPC: They’re from Burgundy!
MD: Yeah, sure. I guess I’d go with those. Those are really solid wines. I’d say the wines of Austria and Germany are great too, and Loire wines. But you’d be hard pressed to beat the wines of Burgundy.
CPC: It’s the challenge. My first answer tends to be Loire, but when I think about never drinking Chardonnay for the rest of my life, it sounds horrible.
MD: I love Loire wines, and I could go a very long time only drinking those wines.
CPC: In terms of sheer variety, it’s insane. When you think about going in from the Pays Nantais, drinking Muscadet then Chenins from Anjou to the great Cab Francs like Rougeard and Baudry, Pineau d’Aunis in Coteaux du Loir and Jasnieres, to the best of the Cotats, Boulay and Thomas-Labaille in Sancerre… it seems pretty amazing.
MD: Can I just pick Western France?
CPC: Ordinarily, I’d say no, but I really want to claim that myself, so that’s where we’re leaving it tonight. Thanks so much for hanging out and opening good wines.
MD: Thanks so much for opening the Huet and the Barolo, both were fantastic. And thanks so much for talking with me.
CPC: Always fun, man.
For more stories from the inside and outside of Nopa, a San Francisco restaurant, visit Nopalize.com.
