Latinx In Power
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Latinx In Power

BONUS: How We Can Find and Use Our Voices

Based on an episode with Alma Lopez 🇲🇽 and Gretchen Rodriguez 🇨🇺

Welcome to Latinx in Power, a podcast which aims to help to demystify tech, the way we do that is by interviewing Latinx leaders all over the world to hear their perspective and insights.

We have another surprise, our second bonus episode. I’m bringing a conversation that I had last year with Alma Lopez and Gretchen Rodriguez as part of the She’s Tech Conference, which is the biggest conference in Brazil dedicated to women in tech.

Gretchen Rodriguez 🇨🇺 is a Senior Product Manager at Santander Digital in Palo Alto born in Cuba. Alma Lopes 🇲🇽 is a Product Owner at Roche who came from Mexico. They also participated in another episode, they were actually one of our first guests to the podcast.

In this bonus episode, we talked more about belonging in tech and finding your voice as a Latinx. They told us stories about their journeys and also more details about how they found their voices living in the United States with their second language.

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Tell us a little bit more about yourself.

[Alma] My name is Alma Lopez. I’m Mexican, born and raised. I studied in Mexico City. I moved to the Bay Area 21 years ago looking to reach my dream to work in Silicon Valley. I have a Computer Science Engineering degree, so I was super happy when I moved to the United States. The Internet was my tool to be able to get interviews, when the opportunity came, they made phone calls and flew me here to have the final interviews. I got offer letters, and accepted it. One of my friends was the one who inspired me to come here, but it took nine months to get the Visa, it was my first baby. After checking every month with the company, I was approved, and I was able to move to the United States.

At that time, my friend had to move out of the US. So, I’m right here with no friends, no family and just a job. Not bad, right? It was totally different. We are so used to these family parties. I remember even receiving my first paycheck and celebrating by myself, it was so funny. I was doing consultancy work later. I traveled a lot, domestic US and international. I had the opportunity to be in Brazil for business twice, I love the country. I was on a business trip there when I found out I was pregnant with my first kid, I call him my little Carioca. Brazil, especially Rio, has a very special place in my family. Later because of the kids, I had to move to an inside job in the R&D, research and development area in the same company. I was working there for several years.

After that, I moved from the telecommunication CRM area to biotechnology, totally different, but that experience allowed me to do software development, and to work at Roche, where we are working on cloud-based solutions for patients in cancer trial research. We support tools for researchers to find faster cures for cancer. That’s a very quick summary of my life.

[Gretchen] My name is Gretchen. I was born in Cuba, I left Cuba when I was 16 years old. I moved to Venezuela with my family, just trying to find a new life. We had to leave again because things were not that well back in the country as you might be aware of. After that, I moved to Spain. I studied computer science engineering in Venezuela, then moved to Spain to do the MBA and spent around four years in Spain, just studying and working in the digital world. Back 2010, mobile marketing, a lot of that was a big buzz. Consulting was not that extremely interesting for me at that point, I was working at Deloitte before, I said, “This is a great opportunity to switch to the digital world.” I started to work in Havas Digital, which is one of the big marketing and apps development companies back in the days in Spain.

After a couple of years there, I had the big goal or the big dream of speaking English. I said, “Okay, the only way to do it is just moving to the US.” That’s how we decided to make it happen. We moved to the US in 2013. It’s been almost seven years since I’ve been here. No job, no family, people think that living in Silicon Valley was kind of cool. Zero idea about rent, zero idea about anything but just being a naive mindset, “Let’s go and do it.”

I studied English school for some months and then started to look for a job. It took me some time, more than what I thought, but finally, I ended up working on eBay working with the Latin America team and building business and growing the basis for Latin American. After five years on eBay, I said, “Okay, I think I feel I know pretty much something about e-commerce. Maybe it’s time for me to move on to the next big thing.” I thought FinTech was going to be that new wave, and I still think it. So, I joined Santander Bank, which is quite a popular bank in Madrid, as well as in Spain, and also in Brazil. What I do now, it’s more about creating products, financial and nonfinancial products, for people in the world.

How do you feel that Latinas can make an impact? Where do you feel we can have an advantage in tech?

[Alma] I think what we’re doing right now is at least one small step, be here, don’t be shy to present and speak up, and teach our girls, it could be your daughter, it could be your niece. I have sons, so little nieces, you can do everything that you put in your mind. Study mathematics, physics, or engineering. It’s just not for men, it’s also for women.

What I realized is now that you’re working on tech, not all the engineers can make it there. Also, psychologists, people who have MBAs, people who have worked along with pathologists, and biologists. People in HR are working on tech as well. Recruiting the right people, training the right people. Not just tech, you have to be good in mathematics, getting this kind of the message that we got as a kid. No, you are very good, you can sell the product that engineer is creating, and you’re a part of tech because they sell, you can make the videos to promote it, you can work on the marketing part.

We need to change the mindset and open the opportunities to the general people. Yes, you can work here too, and that doesn’t mean you have to be good in math because ultimately you’re not so good in math, but you’re good in teaching, you’re good in communicating, you’re good in art, you’re good in usability.

20 years ago, nobody talked about usability in the software because the people who were using software were so trained to do that. Now, we need products that are able to understand in the beginning that you can work with it. Usability is important. You see the background for these people is from sociology and psychology, and art. I think we’re starting like, “Hey, guys, you’re good at math, good. You’re good in the arts, good. You’re good in presentations, good. You can also work here.” It’s something else that people say, “Oh, yeah, I can do that.”

We should start on that point and tell the girls that they can do whatever they put their mind into. They can just want to be a mom, good, awesome, happy. Teach your kids, they can do whatever they want, because I’m pretty sure behind astronauts and the best engineer, it was a mom or a dad that were supporting them and cheering them since the beginning. That was my case, my parents were always pushing and believing in myself. I’m pretty sure in your case, as well, because I’m a strong believer that a kid is the reflection of the parents. I think we can start from that.

[Gretchen] I agree on that point that Alma said. Just to add some color, I see it in three phases. Now, why are we important here? What do we bring to the table? The first one is exactly what Alma says in terms of, just saying out loud that it is possible, you don’t have to be an engineer to work in Silicon Valley, you can bring other goodness, you can bring other skill sets. You don’t have to be a doctor because your father is a doctor and your grandpa was the doctor. Here, the industry helped us or shaped us to think, “Okay, you can be whoever you want.” I have seen doctors, as you mentioned, doctors that were switching into coding and creating all the health and FinTech, all the health tech and all of the other that is so hard and so on trending now.

One is just being that voice and saying, “Hey, there is something else, just jump yourself into the swimming pool, it’s possible.” The second, it’s more on the ways of working. I think we can bring a different vibe and a different way of work into the room. First, we can be super formal, but we can also bring a little less of the seriousness. I think people appreciate that a lot, particularly when there is stress, you can come up with that super awkward laugh or something and people will follow because they need that at that moment. Third one, from product management, which is what I do now, there is some foundation that we have in ourselves that it’s more about empathy, about listening and talking. Let’s bring all of that to the work, let’s bring that to the interviews with the user, let’s bring that to the conversation with our manager telling, “Hey, I don’t think this will be the way. Let’s build this product in this other way,” etc.

I think we have that, it’s part of our core, as it is our survival mindset, like how we have to react, how we have to move because that’s how we come, like how we exist. Now coming from that foundation, if we bring all of that to the work that we do, it doesn’t matter if it’s software development, if it’s project management, or PR. I definitely think that you will do something that is completely differentiated. It’s about believing that, it’s about switching that speech because the times we have the other part, “Okay, you are now from here, your accent, whatever”. It’s about picking what you want to focus on and just go with it. For me, in the beginning when I came here, and I saw a bunch of people from, of course, MIT, Stanford, all of that, I got intimidated. I felt like, “What am I doing here?” The truth is it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter your accent, it doesn’t matter if you come from a university in Venezuela. If there is someone from Venezuela from the Metropolitana, who cares? You just bring the best that you can to the table, and add it to the passion. That’s what really matters. I think more and more, these are attributes that people appreciate. Just embrace that and have fun with that. That’s how I see it.

How have you found a voice since you moved to the US?

[Gretchen] In my case, I can say at the beginning, just for a couple of days, I felt a little overwhelmed with just what I said, like, “What am I doing here? I don’t come from the Ivy Leagues.” Then I started to say, “You know what? I can bring something else.” Particularly, my case, it was easier for me to start working in an environment that needed me. eBay at that point was expanding to Mexico, and Brazil, so the way for me to find that voice, particularly at the work environment, was to say, “Okay, I have the insight from the region, you need me to grow the region. You need me to know what people buy, you need me to know behaviors in general that we probably buy,” I was thinking what else I can bring to the table in terms of insights and help with that? For me, it was more about just leaning into what I knew, or my history and everything, just bringing it into the table to match what the company was needing at that moment.

At the same time, more in the personal part, I tried not to focus on, like I said, this part that is telling you, “Your accent, you’re not from here. You will never be from here,” whatever. I tried not to focus on that and focus on the other thing, like “Hey, there is a big community that is growing in the US. We are cool. We bring a new opportunity, a new mindset,” if you see the numbers of the Hispanic community in the US, the purchasing power that they have now, is completely different. You see there is a segment that you can‘t’ ignore. How can I shift around and just turn the story around and just bring the value on, and set a tone that is completely different?

For me, it was that, and the third one was more about being surrounded by people that helped me continue. Literally, if you are negative, or whatever, I’m sorry, I cannot continue because I have a lot already. Just find that person that will tell you, “Hey, you know what? It’s cool. Keep pushing.” Or, that person that works for you, for instance, my previous manager, she’s from Brazil, Juliana, we were always laughing about all the crazy things that we were saying or doing, our awkward moments. I think it’s more about embracing that and say, “You know what? It’s okay, I’ve been here before, I know how to continue.” Those are the things that I did and definitely keep doing and just being okay with who you are. Just keep listening and learning, but being okay with who you are, I think that’s a secret for me.

[Alma] When did I find my voice? I’m still searching. I think during my career, I had some moments where I got my voice, but I was always surrounded by people, not from my culture. Very nice people, but not from my culture. For some period, I was traveling a lot, so I didn’t have time to do my bonding with friends locally. I wasn’t aware of the Latinos around me. My husband is a second-generation Mexican American born in the US. He was born here, so he’s different, he understands me, that’s a good part. Until I was a mom, and my kids started going to daycare, but still the community was multicultural, I didn’t find people like me until around maybe 11 years ago. I found a community of Latinas, professionals, married with professionals, you find yourself with people to support you, and you support each other. They treat you well, they’re always with you, and your families are similar.

I think that moment when my kids were younger, it takes a lot out of you, so sometimes you have to put your professional life on the side. I did that, I honestly accepted, but because my priority changed at that moment. It was my kids first. Now that my kids are old enough, I think I made a good investment. They’re so independent and so well kids that allow me to go back to school and do my master’s. And now I develop myself and find my voice and I speak it and use it in my new job. Everything that I learned, even with my kids from my previous job, or things that weren’t good or not, I find here that people really hear my voice. They respect my voice. That’s the most important part. I speak and they listen to me.

It was a long process. A long process that took me here, but one of the switches that I’ve seen, I’m not coming from Stanford, I’m not coming from Harvard, I’m not MIT. Yes, but I come from Mexico, I have people, and they have the same values in the family that maybe they did the same as you did, and somehow, we survived, because as a mom, sometimes with younger kids, you’re in that survival mode literally and juggling work. My respect for women who are raising kids and working, it’s not easy. Also, for women who just decided to go professional also, because they spend long hours.

I know you hear about women getting paid less than a man. I feel like, “Oh, yeah. So, raise your hand with me.” You see all the hands raised. You are afraid to apply to a job because you don’t fill all the checkboxes, and then, check just 40% of the boxes and they go, “Yeah, I’m applying.” And people say, “Well, yeah, this guy is kind of the most qualified,” but women we expect to check 99% of the boxes, that’s not possible. Even HR people, “No, don’t do that,” because we literally create a unicorn.” You check 60% of the boxes, it’s okay, go and apply for the job.

When I started working, the famous imposter syndrome, and I said, “Oh, that is cool. Okay, good.” Any illness or any pain that you deal with? Okay, I recognize a habit, I recognize I do it, I’m going to fix it. What I need to do, I need to push myself, I need to do this. Be okay with my accent, my Mexican accent in English. Be okay in the way that I do my working hours because I had to pick up my kids at this time and don’t feel guilty. I think when you start switching that mindset, then things start coming in your way and opportunities open. I was kind of, “Huh, why didn’t I know this 10 years ago?” But you have to believe it somehow. I’m so happy for people who are reading this, bear with you, continue working, but be also good to yourself. I think that is the part that we also have to understand. When you are good to yourself

How do you feel about how communication is valued in the United States?

[Gretchen] In terms of finding your voice, I think when I came here that was one of the things that shocked me the most. I heard everybody saying such beautiful words. It was always on a script. In a school we have the introduction, the body, the conclusions. We know that, but the reality is that we go on our intro, they go to conclusions, and later we will have the conclusion. I was like, “Oh my God. This is a real deal.” So, there is some structure, all of these techniques that you read in the book say, like with the body, the other technique with the sandwich when you want to say something bad to someone and you say good things, and you put something bad in the middle, and then you learn the lesson. All of that started to be more exposed, and I was fascinated with all of these.

If I see myself, I said, seven years ago or something, and I see myself, and now I’m like, “Wow, what a difference.” Because not only I was able to open that conversation and ask people, “Hey, can you give me feedback?” Or, being honest, asking my friends, “Hey, I love the way you talk about everything. What do you do?”, and the person said “you should go to the Toastmaster events, for instance.” I started going. Again, it doesn’t matter if it’s English or not. It’s just the language, how we talk. I took one of the courses in Stanford in improv which teaches you how to react and talk in unexpected moments. I felt hopeful, because this is something you can learn, you can practice. The difference is that we don’t have that in our countries, not with that level of structure.

The third one, it’s more on how you say the things. For me, I remember my first experience on eBay, I was doing a bunch of operations on marketing campaigns and all of that. My manager and the leadership were asking, “Hey, how was this campaign?” I was, “Yeah, it went really well.” They asked, “Okay, what does it mean?” They were expecting me to say a number. They were expecting me to say something. I learned, from that moment, I got obsessed, “Okay, there is no way that I can say something without putting a number next to it.” Not being obsessed, but just bringing some color, some dimension.

The way for me to find that voice was around that, around studying a lot and getting a lot of research to be sure that when I say something, I put a number next to it. Okay, next time, “How was your campaign?” “Okay, it went really well. We were able to grow 15% year over year. We brought more than 10x users.” It doesn’t matter the numbers. Nobody cares about the numbers. I mean people care, yes, but it’s the way you say it. It’s how you tell the story, how you use the wording, how you kind of massage the way you talk is something that is very valuable here, and I wish we had more of that in our country. That’s the only thing, it’s about the final shape but it’s fascinating. We can learn from here, there are a lot of resources online as well. If we are able to extrapolate that and take it to our countries, we are going to rock it in the next few years because we have all the potential. It’s about how we tell the story.

Something that is pretty funny, one of my managers mentioned that once, she said, “Have you realized that when you go to one of these tours in Las Vegas, there is a little thing to show the Titanic.” When you go there is literally a piece of the Titanic, and that’s it, but they put a lot of pictures, the story, and then the person. Then, you go to our countries where we have a lot of history and we don’t tell the story that way, we just say, just take it for granted. Go to the pyramids, those beautiful pyramids in Mexico, you say, “Well, what?” This is something that’s been there for years, but someone just took the piece of Titanic and created such a big thing around that. It’s the same at work, we just have to create a big splash around what we say and what we do. That’s the difference, it’s not about lying, it’s about telling the story in the right way. I think that also helps you to find a voice and is a retroactive flywheel, so next time you grow stronger. That’s what I’ve learned, and definitely it’s always beautiful to see people with those skills, but you can always learn that.

Where did you find motivation to keep giving your best, working hard besides all adversities when you came to the US?

[Alma] I think my motivation is my family, and my kids. I have boys, so I don’t know how it would be if it was a girl. For them, it doesn’t matter. Women can do whatever they want. I don’t feel guilty if they’re washing dishes, and I’m watching my TV. I’m sorry, I’m working, I cook for you. It’s time for you to do the dishes. Or I go outside with my friends before the pandemic, of course, to have a cup of coffee and my husband cleaning the house. I’m sorry, I did my job on a weekday or did it early in the morning. I teach them, we teach them, my husband and I. A man and a woman can be engineers, can work hard, can change the oil in the car, work hard in the office or not, but women and men can do the same.

They are my main motivation to work hard are my parents with everything that they taught me, with the values that they have, with the support that I received from them. Having Latina around you is also my motivation. We need to do better, I feel we’re doing a good job in my 21 years in the US. I see, we’re going maybe slowly, but we are progressing. Latinas working in tech are growing. I’m seeing more women interested in it now. The numbers, again, in the US, are saying that Latinos, especially Latinas, are getting educated. That’s the secret to advance here or anywhere, get an education.

[Gretchen] My case, the motivation is pretty much the same. The family helping, my parents, whatever I can, and just giving them those moments of joy, like, “Oh, this is cool that you met this person and you’re working in this company.” Sometimes, it’s difficult to explain to your parents what you do, they have no idea what you’re doing. In my case, I’m a very geek person, and I’m very passionate also, but that connection between people and purpose and technology. Design for instance, learning about design, learning about new technologies, all of that, that keeps me going all the time. so, if I feel stuck in one thing, if some piece of what I’m doing, it’s boring or whatever, okay, this is the percentage of the world that I don’t like, let me see what is that 1% or 2% that I can lean in, bring in a smile at the end of the day. Just learning, I don’t know, quantum, let me learn about edge computing. Maybe I can know what new design colors that I can apply. Just have fun, because anyways, you have to keep going. The only way forward is going through. Just try to spice things a little bit, if you feel stuck. Breathe, keep going, and just try to have fun. That’s the only thing that I’ve been able to keep over the years.

What advice would you give to someone who wants to work in tech or wants to move to Silicon Valley? What would you say to this person as a next step?

[Gretchen] I’ll say it real quickly, it’s about networking. Yes, it’s great to send resumes, it’s great to wait for a company to call you, but guess what? Just go to all the events that you can go to. I remember when I was in the phase of looking for a job, I was working with a coach and he said, “You know what? No. Go to the craftsmanship events because you can find the person there too.” I said, “Oh my God, that’s true.” It’s about networking. I think it’s about networking in general, and at the same time, see how you can extrapolate your experience with what you are doing here, not what you will be doing or facing. I’ll give you an example. I was doing product management in Spain, but that then didn’t exist as itself, so when I came here, it took me some time. I struggled a lot to find who I am. What am I doing? I would always say, like, “I wish I were a lawyer, I knew what I was doing.” But I’m this person that is a hybrid between tech, product, everything. So, it took me some time to understand the role. After I understood, I was able to map out what I wanted to do. I think those two pieces, network inside out, just ask people, “Do you have five minutes for a catch-up?” People are genuine, I can tell you, and people like to talk about themselves. You can always start like, “Hey, tell me about your experience.” Then from there, you start looping.

The second is to try to identify what you’re doing and why you want to do it. What keeps you passionate about it? Not only because sometimes you can say, okay, economical, the financial piece of it. Yeah, that’s okay, but what else is keeping you with that passion? Because that passion is the thing that will give you the spark, and it will keep you moving. It will stay with you forever. Find that, and that’s it, and say it to the world, “I want this, I want this.” Someone will hear you and will help you. That’s the only way.

[Alma] Networking is key, I saw just a comment that it comes together. They say, as a Latina, we had to work twice as hard. I think as a woman, not just Latina, as a woman, we need to work harder. One of the reasons I left Mexico is because the difference between women and men at that time was very strong. I was, “You know what? I’m not going to go here, I’m going somewhere else.” Besides, my dream was Silicon Valley. Here, I see the women, we’re really good, so having a project, half of the staff they’re working on the different roles, and my expert in DevOps is women. I’m super happy that my experts are good, and we are represented and we get along pretty good.

Another myth is women together, they cannot work. It’s a myth, it’s a lie. Yes, we work hard, but I think we have to work smarter. We need to learn that. It’s something that we don’t get taught in a school either. We are not teaching that, you don’t get that from a school, you learn it from experience in your life. Just ask the question, don’t be shy. Speak up. You see the project is going down, well, it’s hard but come on, let’s do it. That’s the reason you earn the respect. That’s the reason, “Oh, yeah, she knows what she’s talking about.” That part of the smart is that it’s not working harder, it’s just knowing and realizing what is the opportunity to do it. That’s also how to look about it. You don’t need to raise your hand every single time. That means you need to work harder, pay attention to what’s going on, where are we going to really identify the goal of the project, the goal of the week as a team and be able to lead and do it. You think you’re a leader, go ahead and do it, you’re going to make mistakes, well, everybody makes mistakes. I think there’s a part that needs to say, “I can do it,” and do it. That means you need to work hard because you need to get that up to speed with somebody who has been doing that since number one.

I think men, the way that they are, I can see that raising boys, they are not afraid. We are more cautious by nature. Kids start destroying things and women are delicate, we are more like, “Okay, no, I don’t want to destroy it.” We also do many things, we are good leaders, when you have the sixth sense, you’re more sensible on that part, take advantage and put it on the job. Sometimes it’s hard for me to understand that women don’t think about things like, “Oh, my God, I need to work twice as a man.” No, I need to learn to be able to think like him, because I don’t think like him, I don’t feel like him, I need to work on that. Men, they have to be sometimes more cautious, they have to work on that as well. Unfortunately, we live in that demanding world where you’re paid less. If a woman does something, “Oh, my God, she’s crazy, and if a man does, “He’s strong and independent.” You’re like, “What about women?”

[Gretchen] They’ve been hunting for years, and we’ve been at home preparing the food. Now, we have to switch that. Hunting for us is pretty different, but we have to do it.

[Thaisa] The way we are socialized plays a huge part in that. We are socialized in a totally different way than men. Also, we live in a sexist society, and unfortunately, we are trying to change that, we are so behind. At the same time, if a woman does something, then the man does the same thing, the society will see them as different. I really like what you mentioned about working smarter, not just working harder. Working smarter in a sense that chooses what you can work that is going to bring you more impact, not just what you love to do sometimes. Sometimes, it’s a combination, what is bringing you more impact and also what you truly love. Keep in mind things that might not be too natural for us, for example, I was reading an article talking about self-promotion, and how men do that more than women. It’s not self-promotion, it’s talking about our accomplishments, and we need to start to talk about our accomplishments, talking about numbers, talking about the impacts, talking about what we can bring to the table with your manager. Thinking about a career having growth plans, and having your manager accountable for that and our team members. Also having those difficult conversations that for us might not be natural or common, we need to start doing that.

[Gretchen] It has to happen all the time. You literally have to have a calendar, and I talk about promotion and salary every six months. It’s the same way that you should have an attitude of looking for a job all the time, even if you have a job. Not to be distracted, but just to know what is happening outside. It’s the same, just show me the money. There are ways to say things like, “I want to review where I am. What is the range?” There are ways to say it, but you literally have to have a calendar, twice per year with “Talk to my manager about this,” is the only way. Nobody else will do it for you.

[Alma] Celebrate your goal. I reached a goal, I reached this other goal, and believing and doing what you love. Don’t feel afraid. Again, it took me years to build that confidence. My manager says, your job is to help you because there is no tool that can help you to promote you. Well, good, no problem. That’s my job, I’ll do it.

[Gretchen] I’m also going to talk about one thing that I do is that I work with people or partners. I said, “Hey, can you send it to my manager? How was everything working together?” Then, talking about the experience, the person who replied to my manager said, “Don’t keep me on CC, just reply to them,” because sometimes someone hears about you from another person, there’s even more impact. Yeah, you have to build your cas, and every six months, you sit and say, “Hey, look what I did. Look what I did.” You’ll know your impact. It doesn’t have to be sending a skyrocket to the moon. You’re just going to say, okay, I was able to fix it, but keep your track, bring your story, and just put it in the calendar, and talk about money, and your career. It is the only way.

In my case, for instance, I learned that from one of my leaders on eBay. She said, “You know what? When I go and have this conversation, I don’t think about myself. I think about my family, my kids.” I do the same, I think about them, I’m the one pretty much providing for them and say, I think about that and then I go and empower myself and do it. If you feel uncomfortable talking with you in mind only, think about the people that depend on you, that you love and go for it.

[Thaisa] Great learning today. I think one thing that is important is to put a number next to everything you do, show your impact, don’t be afraid, have a list of your accomplishments, think about your career growth and talk with your manager. Find your voice and don’t be afraid to be yourself.

[Alma] Have fun.

[Gretchen] Have fun, yeah!

I hope you enjoyed the podcast. We will have more interviews with amazing Latinx leaders the first Tuesday of every month. Check out our website Latinx In Power to hear more. Don’t forget to share comments and feedback, always with kindness. See you soon.

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Insights and exposure to Latinxs leaders around the globe. In each episode we feature insightful conversations about their journey, stories behind their trajectory, plenty of laughs and learnings.

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Thaisa Fernandes

Thaisa Fernandes

Problem solver and perfectionist in recovery willing to stretch myself and risk making mistakes to achieve innovative solutions and validate my learnings

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