Transition to Product
Based on episode with Gretchen Rodriguez 🇨🇺
Welcome to Latinx in Power, a podcast aiming to help to demystify tech, the way we do that is by interviewing Latinx and Caribbean leaders all over the world to hear their perspective and insights.
We talked with Gretchen Rodriguez, a Senior Product Manager at Santander Digital in Palo Alto. Gretchen worked for a long time at eBay, and her last role there was Senior Product Manager and Product Owner. She has a bachelor’s degree in Computer Science and a Master’s in International Management. She also studied Design Thinking, UX Design, Data Analytics and Neuroscience, among other things.
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Gretchen was nominated as one of the Latinx Product Leaders by Product School recently. Congrats, Gretchen! ✨
What does it mean to you to be a Latina?
For me, being a Latina represents bringing a different perspective to the conversation, a different way of working or a little bit of levity to the serious things, in general, but always with a very strong foundation.
Having the knowledge from the region and having the style and way of working that we have in Latin America, when you bring that to the U.S. or other markets, it can be very powerful, because you have an exponential experience. You can bring yourself, but boosted, and complement that even more with all of those formal ways of working and processes that we have here in the U.S.
For me being Latina is that commitment to bridge different ways of working between teams and groups. So that’s what I’ve always done in my career that has helped me to continue growing all the time. Being super authentic all the time and being honest with myself, what I believe with my core and my belief system, but bringing it in the context of business with the Latina power.
Was this always something that you had in mind?
I’ve always had this mindset of thinking, what else now? It shouldn’t be that simple. There has to be something fun in everything we’re doing, there has to be a secret boost, there has to be something else, it’s not that obvious.
I kind of learned that even more when I started to understand in terms of numbers. The 80/20 rule for example, that 20% of the things bring the 80% of the revenue or the 80% of the goodness. I’m always obsessed with identifying that 20%, that little thing that will change everything, so that’s why I’m always chasing those aha moments where just asking different questions or bringing a different perspective can definitely change the conversation and the discussion that is happening in the moment.
I feel that’s part of my DNA, I need to always bring a different angle. Probably it’s also part of my experience in the sense that I am a Computer Science Engineer, but I have been developing my career in the business aspects. I feel like an anchor, I can understand both worlds. When you are able to have those moments when two or three pieces come together and kind of explode, you say okay this is the 20% that I was looking for.
I’ve always been not very quiet with accepting things as they are. Maybe because where I come from, I’m always questioning that little thing. I’m always thinking, there has to be something else, there has to be something more. That keeps me going all the time and pushes me to the next adventure.
What are you most proud of?
I think the biggest thing is definitely speaking a second language. When I started my career, everybody thought I was going to work at Deloitte or one of these big Boston Consulting Groups, McKinsey, and I also thought that was going to be my path.
At the same time, I was always on hold because I was not speaking the language, so one day I said okay this is enough. I have to confront myself and get out of my comfort zone where I don’t speak the language. I’m quiet in a corner because I’m not working in the place that I want to work. So what is next?
I decided to start this adventure going to the U.S., studying the language, and introducing myself in this challenging life where we can live in the sense of competition and this bubble where we live that can be stressful, but at the same time helps you to stretch yourself and find those strengths that you didn’t know you had. In my case I feel very proud because I was about to give up a bunch of times on the journey, but I still kept pushing. I feel happy because it opened up a new world for me.
I’m able to connect with other people, still be myself, but learning how to express ideas and expanding the universe. It’s a parallel universe where you suddenly realize there are a lot of things that you didn’t know before. And now, because you speak the language, because you interact with people from different cultures, you are able to understand and be part of it. So for me, that’s by far my biggest accomplishment in the professional area.
What is the one thing you wish you had known when you began your career?
Sounds like a cliche, but having the reinforcement of understanding that everything is possible that you can learn a new skill in, I don’t know, six months, a month. I’m not diminishing anything, but you just need a couple of months to learn the theory of the things and some opportunity to practice and to master your skill set.
I wish I had known this before, and I probably have done things in a different way, maybe less based on the fear that I probably need to do this because I don’t know it’s a way of doing things versus saying this is what I want to do.
I’m not afraid of learning a new skill. I’m not afraid of making a transition in my career. It doesn’t matter if I’m a doctor and tomorrow I want to be an engineer. I’m fine, I just probably need some years to catch up on that, but it is possible, and I wish I had known that before.
Having those examples and having less of the belief system that if your father is a doctor, you have to be a doctor and everybody has to be. That’s probably a little bit of what we see in our culture, sometimes we don’t do what we want because we are wired to do things that others will not. I wish I had known that freedom before, less fear and more encouragement to do crazy things.
What was your process to transition to product management?
Basically I was doing Product Management before when I was living in Spain and working at Havas Digital. Of course, it didn’t have the fancy term or the fancy connotation that it has today, or the clear awareness of the customer in the center and all of the things that we hear now.
When I moved to the U.S., it took me some time to understand what I was doing at the moment and what I wanted to do. It was a little painful, but it was very instrumental for me to understand where I wanted to go. When I was able to understand what I do and what I want is Product Management, I knew what positions that I could apply for.
Things in life are always different than you expect. I discovered that it’s a very competitive ecosystem, in terms of Product Management and people that do Product Management. So finding that opportunity took me some time. I’m talking about three years, more or less. Then what I did once I identified where I wanted to go, I prepared myself for all of those years I was doing Marketing at eBay, and it was not the thing that was most fulfilling to me, but I knew it was part of my journey.
What I did was start to apply some of the Agile practices and frameworks to what I was doing already to prepare myself to speak the same language as the PMs. I was applying all of that in my job in the marketing organization at eBay, and then networking all the time finding that opportunity internally or externally.
Then I realized it was going to be easier to make the transition internally. There was that exact moment where the company opened a product position for international expansion, and the person that was going to drive that was the first person I met at eBay when I expressed I wanted to move to Product Management. He was kind of a mentor for me, so the moment that he knew about the opportunity, he immediately reached out and said he thought I was a good fit.
I will always be so grateful because he trusted me, he knew I was prepared for the role. I know it might not be true for everyone. Sometimes you don’t feel ready or don’t have someone who believes in you since people literally ask for five years of experience in Product Management.
I think it is a mix between being perseverant in what you want, but also finding that person that will open that door for you when you feel that you don’t have the power to keep knocking the door. There will always be someone that will open the door for you.
For me, that was the combination, but also the preparation like incorporating all of the frameworks and ways of working to be prepared to claim to the world, I’m ready for this, what is next? Show me the opportunity. That was my strategy, and I think it worked out. It took some time, but always be determined on what you want to go on and it always pays off.
I have a blog called PM101 where I share tips and advice for other aspiring PMs. I’m curious if you have any advice for someone who is transitioning to Product Management.
I think the first tip is to be clear on why you want to be a Product Manager. The Why is that sometimes you see things, the motivation sometimes comes because of financial standpoint, sometimes it comes because status, I don’t know. In my case, it was that I needed that sense of professional identity.
In this type of role you probably need to combine the different pieces and put a strong story around that. I think that piece of advice is the first one. Be sure, spend time. I don’t know, it will probably take you more time than you think to write exactly why you want to do this or why you’re passionate about Product Management. Finding that out is very important.
The second tip is to find those people that can help open the doors for you, in general, because sometimes opportunities are not even published. You probably need to be in contact with the companies and with people that are willing to give you the opportunity, even though you might not have the experience. I think that’s important.
The third tip for me is what else I can do now in the projects I’m working on to stretch myself and feel confident or feel more comfortable on the terms, for example speaking the language and learning. Learning Sketch and Invision should be like learning how to talk, it should be mandatory. You don’t have to be a professional, but being able to express yourself through the tools that are used all the time is extremely important.
I would say those three are the most important, and the fourth is to find that power. When you feel you don’t have it, just take a break. If you need to take a break, take it, but be true to yourself, keep pushing, keep pushing. You will be very close to where you want to go. Closer than yesterday. That’s why it’s very important to be sure on why you want to do this.
That’s always the motivation to keep moving and finding those people that can help you all the time, and people that have gone through the same or similar journey. Speak out loud, I want these, out loud to the world. I want this, and say it to everybody. You never know who’s going to be that person that can give you the opportunity. You just need one person to say yes, and make it happen. Express what you want, someone will be your way to make it happen.
Tell me the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear these phrases or questions.
Your superpower:
For me, it’s probably going back to communication. When we think about the projects and everything we do, it’s 80% communication and 20% content. If you have the superpower for me, it’s understanding the 20%, but at the same time streamlining the conversations. What can you do okay? This is the person that I need to be on my team, this is the person that I need for an approval. For me that’s a superpower. Identify your key people in the room that will help you to move forward, because if you win, they win, and everybody wins. I think that’s a superpower, finding those horses in the room that can help you to push where you want to go, and being able to identify the 80/20.
Last skill you learned:
I started to learn more about everything related to neuroscience, how our brains work, how our minds are wired, and that’s something that I’ve been incorporating more and more. All of these frameworks that talk about the cognitive behaviors that we have in ways of working, ways of reading, and so on.
I’m learning more and more about that, and I’m trying to incorporate some of these frameworks, trying to incorporate everything related to the methodologies in terms of jobs to be done and how to create organizations around that in product where everybody works with a common goal or a common win at the end instead of silos. Now I’m more into that part, what can I do to leverage the group and win that 20% of the tweaking and efforts? That’s what I’ve been doing recently.
I’m also trying to incorporate more with all the things in terms of meditations, mindfulness, what actually drives us in one way or the other. What is that fear that will make the makers probably hold back toward doing something? And if you kind of go down and put it in the perspective of creating a product, it is so powerful. At the end you’re talking to people, and people have brains and ways of thinking, so I think that’s the last tweaking part to make a good impact.
A favorite book:
I’m now reading The Four from Scott Galloway, and I love it. I recently read Do Nothing by Celeste Headlee. I recommend that 100%. It breaks all of those myths that we have in terms of needing to work 20 hours per day to be the best. We have to, I don’t know, do this and show our value. She makes an interesting point in a very simple way and helps you to understand what your value is without you having to share to the world that you have to work 10,000 hours to be a valued person, so I recommend this book.
A big surprise:
For me it was knowing that I was pregnant with twins. That was a big surprise. Even with that event in my life, I also started to apply Agile principles. I’m always obsessed with what I can do to improve my life with the twins. Having a board? Organizing the tasks? Not in an obsessive way, but more in the practical way. Even the diapers, like if I put it upside down or not, will it save me time while putting it on? I’m having a lot of fun with that experiment.
How do you continue to learn in order to stay on top of things within your role?
I would say there are two pieces. One is when I decide to move to a new area or learn a new skill. And the second one is more in terms of trends and what is happening so I can incorporate them into my daily work.
For the first one, I check a lot on LinkedIn. I’m always following people that I respect, and their opinions are very important so you can see what is happening. That’s how I learned about FinTech and all the financial world changing一 open banking, banking as a service. This sounded interesting. I wanted to learn more about that so I started to follow people on LinkedIn, which has been super critical for me.
So the other thing is more like, okay now that I’m in my role, what else do I need to know if open banking is happening, let’s say banking as a service? What else is out there? The challenger banks versus the incumbents, what is happening now?
There are two things that I do all the time now. The first one is connecting with people in the sector. I have some opportunities to check with professionals, like in Forrester, I can have the latest based on their opinions. I do have access to other tools that the company gives me like CB Insights, which for me I always joke they’re replacing Netflix in my life. Every night is for me the most beautiful moment where I can see and read about the trends. I’m not a person that reads a lot or researches a lot, I just go to those sources that I feel confident can help me to bring those points to the table. So if you don’t have that available to you, there are other sources like blogs industry people that can share more.
I will say I focus on those two and also in the bank as it is so big. I’m able to connect with different countries so I can understand what is happening in the U.S. and probably what will happen in Latin America. In the next month or so I can be prepared, and I can have a better conversation when I go to talk to people in Brazil. I can have a more enriched conversation with them and understand what are the specific trends in the countries. That’s how I use the resources available to me and leverage the tools that the company gives me, and LinkedIn. Those are my two biggest support systems.
How is the pandemic affecting your life and work?
It’s so funny because when you asked me this, the first thing that I thought was that I literally have to take calls in the morning from my closet so nobody can hear what is happening around that set up. I think the pandemic has affected the willingness of people to be connected and their schedule changes as well so you have to be a little more flexible.
I think it also has affected me in a positive way, because now we are all in the same situation, we have to be online, we have to be available, we probably have to show our house to our colleagues that we didn’t know before. It has created that sense of empathy and breaks up those moments of being so serious and perfect that we have to show sometimes in the professional environment, but relaxing that has helped in a positive way.
Overall, it has changed everything in both positive and less positive ways, but net value it’s been positive. In general, I’m stretching myself and helping the team to work in delivering what’s the most important thing at this point.
What is helping you to cope during this situation?
Managing the schedule in general for me. I usually start very early in the morning because I have calls with Europe, so I’ll probably start around 5:30 am or 6 am. I know I would be 4–5 hours in a very intense way. I always take a break after that, taking a walk or doing a coffee break. I have one of the coffee places that I like close to me, or sometimes I also sit down. I joined this platform called Domestika. I take design courses, painting, and such, so I take maybe an hour or a couple of hours for myself to kind of unplug and restart before going back to work. I definitely take that time for this.
The other thing that has helped me is on Fridays, I know I finish my day early. Then I jump into research, what can I share with the team? What can I do to give back? What can I bring back to the team? If I work with designers or developers, I love to find those reports, studies or exercises, and I share it with the team. I’m enjoying that a lot, because people appreciate it. That sharing moment is also a way for me to cope, and I’m also enjoying that as well.
What inspires you?
It sounds obvious, but finding a leader with compassion in themself. A person that really drives a vision, let’s go here. Let’s do that, but with honesty. That inspires me 100%, 10,000 times. This is one thing that I’m always searching for every time that I go start a new position, I need to find those pillars that can help me not only to feel more comfortable in the position but also to find that inspiration to keep moving.
And the second thing that I’m always reading and researching is more about all of these videos that you see in terms of gratitude, in terms of little things that people do that kind of make someone’s life different, that little product that improves someone’s life. This helps me because I go back again to what we were talking about before the simplicity, but at the same time, the power of the simplicity. Finding those moments help me reiterate my vision, but also keeps me inspired.
You don’t have to reinvent the world, you don’t have to boil the ocean, you just have to find those things that are important to keep moving. Sharing those moments and learning those moments, is also an important source of inspiration for me. And, of course, finding new influencers online, but more people that share the vision of business, but also mix with meditation and mindfulness, for example, finding those people that can share that vision. It also helps me a lot to maintain hope and find inspiration everyday.
How easy is it to move from one industry to another?
Based on my experience I have been moving in sectors that are very Agile in general like ecommerce or now FinTech. I think you just need to have a solid skill set and learn about the sector and the area. If you’re an ecommerce, you probably as a Product Manager need to know, what are the specific API’s? Who are the players? How much is it growing?
At the same time it’s very feasible, you just need to understand more about the sector, applying those same thought processes that you had previously experienced to the new sector and trying to paraphrase a little more. It’s more about changing the KPI and understanding the customer journey is a little different. But besides that, I would not feel intimidated to change sectors if you have a strong foundation as a Product Manager.
The power of analytics:
We can also talk about the power of analytics. It sounds like cliche, we see a lot of companies saying we’re data-driven. What does it mean for real? Let’s stop for a moment, you say you’re a data-driven company, but what does it mean?
I can tell you what it means for me. It means that I start my day understanding my funnel and numbers. Is there a drop in this page? How many users did I bring yesterday? How many users left because of the share raise, etc.? So, as a Product Manager I have to be obsessed with understanding the numbers and be able to answer when someone asks, what is this feature? What is the impact? It’s pretty important to put a number next to everything.
I’m always exercising myself with that. When you know the power of your analytics, when you understand where the users are moving, where your goals are, among other things. You are able to focus on your work. You are able to say, I’m going to spend this percentage of my time on this.
In general, we see some of the rules that say that you as a Product Manager should probably invest 40% of your time in features that are related to conversion. Let’s say that I’m launching a new payment option. If it’s focused on conversion at 30%, that probably means you should focus your efforts on acquisition, so maybe I’m launching a new referral program, or I’m launching a coupon feature. And 15% say that you should focus on the user’s happiness, on the user behavior.
It’s important to have those parameters because sometimes we fall into that trap of I’m doing this because the user will love the color of my site, or the user will love to have this button, but you should also have the other part of your ecosystem. What else am I spending the time on? And then, probably 15% of the rest, you should invest in big bets, let’s say that I’m doing a new thing that is quite revolutionary for my users. And if you say that 40% conversion, 30% of acquisition, 15% user happiness or user experience and 15% big bets. You see that total is 100%, which means that you should spend 0% on things that are not a priority.
Sounds obvious, but it’s very difficult. If you are able to understand your data all the time, understand where you have to focus and build that cake, that tart system for you, you’re done. You are ready, you can literally conquer the world because you know where you’re going. You can tell your story in a different way, and that’s the power of storytelling.
You have to know your data, and that conveys what you spend your time on. I learned that in the tough way, because I’m always like yeah let’s do it, great. This is one more thing, one checklist, but the reality is that you also have to be very solid on your story and put a number next to it. Everything that you do put a number next to it without being the pain person.
When people say, this feature went really well. What does it mean? Does it mean that five people clicked, or does it mean that you brought $10,000 in incremental money? Knowing these terms is very important because it gives you a competitive advantage. Not only in your organization as a Product Manager, but also in the business. You can talk and share the same thoughts in the same language with the business, convey that to your product and that’s a very healthy cycle that you have to be obsessed with. You have to build the flywheel along with understanding the numbers, bringing value, repeat.
I hope you enjoyed this podcast. We will have more interviews with amazing Latinx leaders every first Tuesday of the month. Check out our Latinx in Power website to hear more. Don’t forget to share comments and feedback, but always with kindness. See you soon.
Additional Reading Mentioned in the Interview
Books Gretchen Mentioned
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