Redefining Professionalism

Based on an episode with Pabel Martinez 🇩🇴

Welcome to Latinx in Power, a podcast aiming to help to demystify tech, the way we do that is by interviewing Latinx and Caribbean leaders all over the world to hear their perspective and insights.

We talked with Pabel Martinez (he/him), a former Global Account Director at TikTok and Client Solutions Manager at Meta, among others. Pabel is praised for his tenacious problem-solving and ability to deliver data-driven solutions. His passion lies in uncovering the story behind data. He is currently redefining professionalism at PLURAWL.

In this episode, Pabel discussed his background and journey leading to PLURAWL’s founding, his definition of “uncovering professionalism,” and balancing data analysis with creativity.

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What does it mean to be a Latino for you?

When I think of being Latino, I think about the music and the food. Those are the first two things. I can’t even go out these days if I don’t hear music in Spanish. Don’t get me wrong. I hear music in Portuguese as well, a little Rio Funk. I love to play some Kevin O Chris anytime. Yeah, there’s just this passion, and really, my mind instantly goes to the food and the music.

Yo. It’s crazy because growing up, when I used to go out, there used to be certain places in New York that would play Spanish music, or certain places in New York that would have a Latino night. Now, every night is Latino night. It’s crazy. It’s so weird, but I’m so happy about it.

Latino artists are not only being nominated for Latino Grammys but also for Grammys Album of the Year with full albums in Spanish. It’s mind-blowing. But we’ve come a long way, and it gives me a sense of pride that I don’t think I always had.

What’s your favorite food?

My favorite food, I’m going straight to dessert. I love tres leches cake. Love. Love. Yeah, I’m a food enthusiast at heart. And when it comes to sweets, in particular, I have no self-control. So, any sort of sweet is really good, but tres leches, in particular, has my heart, for sure.

Can you give us an overview of your career and what led you to found Plurawl?

You mentioned some companies earlier at the beginning that are difficult to get into. It is not easy to secure a job at Meta, TikTok, or any of these major tech companies. Even when you look at the statistics, perhaps only 5% of the workforce at each of those companies are Latino or Latinx, and another 5% might be Black. So, it’s a very small percentage of us that are in those rooms.

As challenging as those jobs were to obtain, I always found the most difficult part for me was being myself at work because I’ve been conditioned to believe, even from a young age, that to achieve success, I couldn’t be my authentic self.

So, I reached a point where I was like a full-fledged actor when I entered these spaces. I would literally binge-watch and study white popular American culture so that I could discuss it at work, even though I didn’t care about most of it.

How was it for you? When did you realize that you’re doing that and when did you decide to change this?

Well, talking about that, it’s interesting because I had an experience when I got into Facebook. I thought, “Okay, the game is over. I can be myself.” I finally made it. I’ve landed a job that I’ve always wanted. I have this title of an employee at Facebook. I can be myself now. But that’s when I got even more into assimilation, even more into code-switching and faking it because it’s something that I’ve always wanted, and I didn’t want to lose it. So, I told myself, “I’m going to do whatever it takes to stay here.” So, it’s not like I took off the mask when I got to Facebook. Instead, I acted even more.

But I remember being at Facebook, and they have this open work policy where you can work from anywhere in the office. And the office is beautiful. I would never work at my desk because I’m easily distracted. So, I need to be by myself to be able to focus. I remember getting back to my desk and having a one-on-one meeting with my manager. My manager said that my teammates thought I was unfriendly and unapproachable because I didn’t work at my desk. And that was one of those early signs for me when I started working there, like, even though I’m doing my work, it’s not enough to just do your work. There’s this extra layer of making people feel comfortable that we feel the need to do, and I tried to make people feel comfortable for a long time until I had a mental health breakdown, and I was just like, “I’m tired of this. I’m going to start being myself. I don’t care what people say.”

How do you define uncovering professionalism and what is professionalism to you?

Listen, forget about what it means to me. Just look up the definition. This is what it should mean to everybody. Words have definitions for a reason. So, if you look up the word, professionalism is defined as the skill or competence expected of a professional. That’s it. Skill or competence.

So, I often do presentations and speaking engagements at companies, and I put up a picture of someone like Lil Wayne, with face tattoos, grills, and dreadlocks, among other things. Then I ask, “Does anything about him look unprofessional?” It’s a trick question because there’s no such thing as looking unprofessional. When people say that Lil Wayne looks unprofessional, what they’re really saying is that they don’t believe that someone who looks like him has the skill or competence for the role. But that’s just their own bias regarding what an engineer or an accountant is “supposed to look like.” There is no such thing as a professional look. It’s all about the skills or competence expected for the role. That’s it.

I would love to ask you because I have this feeling that things are even worse now, because it feels like diversity and inclusion is not the top priority anymore. How do you feel about that?

I want to be clear too. This idea of bias doesn’t start when we begin working. There’s bias within our own communities. There’s bias within our own households. My grandfather, growing up, because he cared about me, would tell me, “Do you see presidents, CEOs with beards, piercings, different hair color, tattoos?” No. So, to this day, I don’t have tattoos. To this day, I don’t have piercings. This is the haircut that I’ve always had. You know what I mean? It’s always been short, but it’s because he wanted to protect me. But my grandfather was Dominican. He was Latino. So, it’s not just white people, people in tech, or people in corporations who expect us to conform to a certain way. We impose it on ourselves based on the media and the representations we see.

When it comes to diversity and inclusion, I don’t have the specific numbers on whether it’s better or worse off. But during the recent layoffs and budget cuts, I did notice many reductions in diversity and inclusion initiatives. Speaking as someone who receives budgets from organizations for speaking engagements related to diversity and inclusion, I’ve seen many cancellations because budgets were withdrawn. Furthermore, there was an influx of diverse talent in tech during the hiring spree, and people were excited. They shared videos showcasing a day in the life of a tech employee.

However, when these diverse employees were let go, many expressed frustration with tech and considered it a waste of time. They said, “Forget tech; I’m never going back.” I’m a bit disheartened that they’ve become discouraged about entering the tech industry. I’m concerned that people who look like me may now be hesitant to pursue tech because they fear being laid off. In reality, you can get laid off anywhere, not just in tech. So, I hope we continue to see tech as an opportunity, despite all the layoffs and challenges that have arisen.

Could you share an example of a situation where you successfully uncover professionalism in a unique or unexpected way, so maybe like a situation that happened to you, and you called that out in a very unique or maybe straightforward way? I’m just curious, how was this experience and how if you had the opportunity to uncover that?

I think professionalism, like many other things, is just a set of norms that have been passed down from generation to generation regarding how we should act in professional settings or approach professional matters. One of the moves I’m most proud of is the idea of salary transparency. When we get a job, we’re often told, “Don’t tell anyone how much you signed for. Don’t disclose your salary to your coworkers. Keep that information confidential.” Now, that practice doesn’t benefit anyone except the organization. If everyone knew how much money each of us was earning, we could probably negotiate better compensation collectively.

On Latino Equal Pay Day, probably two years ago, I openly shared my salary. I posted my entire compensation package while I was working at TikTok. I disclosed my base salary, bonus, signing bonus, stock options — everything. It went viral, garnering four million views in a week. It was quite remarkable. Many people advised me against doing it, but there’s nothing illegal about sharing this information. It’s essentially me sharing my financial details, like taxes. I’m not revealing any company secrets or speaking negatively about the company. I’m simply discussing my employment offer. Interestingly, the individuals who told me not to do it looked just like me but were from an older generation. So, when it comes to our perception of professionalism, there are numerous unspoken rules that we believe we must follow, but why?

When information is anonymous, as on platforms like Glassdoor, many people don’t fully trust it. I’ve been in interviews where I referenced data from Glassdoor, and recruiters have said, “Take that information with a grain of salt; it’s not very reliable. Anyone can write those reviews, even you.” I had a friend who applied for a similar job at TikTok as me, and they initially offered her $100,000 less than what I was making. Then she showed my salary post, and she was able to negotiate a $100,000 increase in her compensation package just because I had provided transparency and concrete numbers as a current employee of the company. Unlike Glassdoor, there was no doubt that I was making up the figures. That’s the power of being open about our workplace experiences.

It’s also interesting that you mentioned microaggressions earlier. If you look at any study, especially those focused on workplace experiences for people of color, you’ll likely find that it’s filled with anonymous quotes. It’s rare for people to openly share their experiences and attach a face and a name to them.

How do you approach fostering these relationships and why do you believe they are crucial in today’s professional landscape?

I forget who said this, but it’s like your network is your net worth, and it’s so true. I’ve been presented with numerous opportunities solely based on the relationships I’ve cultivated. I think the number one tip I can offer people, even though it may sound a bit cliché, is to be authentic when you’re interacting with others and trying to build relationships. It’s challenging to maintain a facade for an extended period. I recall my time at Facebook when I was attempting to build relationships with clients. We would often go to dinners together and discuss our weekends or what we were up to. I used to pretend and say things like, “Oh, my God, have you seen the latest episode of X, Y, and Z show,” even though I didn’t like it but was binge-watching it because I thought that’s what everyone was doing.

Those conversations remained superficial. However, when I started discussing personal experiences like, “I’m on Tinder, and I had a few dates this weekend,” I could talk about that endlessly. Not only that, but it opened the door to more vulnerable and personal moments, beyond just discussing TV shows. It allowed them to share their own stories, like, “Back in my day when I used to date,” and I’d be like, “Oh, my God, what is Tinder?” This created deeper connections where you could genuinely learn about someone beyond their entertainment preferences. That’s when I began doing my best work — when I embraced being myself, as I could be authentic indefinitely. Acting and pretending can only go so far.

I wanted to ask you, if you have any advice for folks who bring data to their conversation that is not natural, how they can start doing that, and how do you balance this data analysis with creativity to create innovative solutions?

Well, I believe data should be integrated into every conversation because it offers additional evidence that you’re not the only one experiencing certain issues. For instance, when I came across the statistic stating that 76% of Latinos at work suppress parts of their identities, meaning three out of four of us do so, it was a powerful revelation for me. For a long time, I felt isolated. So, this data not only puts things into context but also lends credibility to what I’m discussing. When I engage in speaking engagements, it’s not just about sharing my personal story; it’s about highlighting that my experiences are shared by millions of others as well.

Now, the creativity aspect comes into play because no one can convey your story better than you. You have the freedom to be as creative as you wish while using that data as a foundation to provide context and credibility to your narrative.

Do you have any advice?

I believe that consistently tracking it can be quite helpful, especially if you’re not the one primarily responsible for the work. Many individuals are engaged in research, so you don’t necessarily have to quantify things on your own. You can rely on others to provide quantified data, just make sure to give them credit. These are the two actions I would recommend.

Where people can find you.

Listen, one of the most powerful things you could do in the world is literally just be yourself. So, please do it. I know it’s scary, but go on that self-discovery journey.

We’re launching an app at the end of the year. Our app waitlist is live. If you go on any of our social media sites, including Instagram or TikTok, just look for us at Plurawl, and you’ll see the link for our app waitlist, and you can find me on LinkedIn.

I hope you enjoyed the podcast. We will have more interviews with amazing Latinx leaders the first Tuesday of every month. Check out our website Latinx In Power to hear more. Don’t forget to share comments and feedback, always with kindness. See you soon.

✨Exciting news! Latinx In Power is now part of the HubSpot Podcast Network, the go-to audio hub for business professionals. Headsup: We receive a commission when you purchase. To learn more, click here: https://lnkd.in/grRP-WNP

Additional Reading Mentioned in the Interview

https://www.linkedin.com/in/pabelmartinez/

PLURAWL | Our Beginnings

PLURAWL (@plurawl) | TikTok

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