What makes you think you would have been better?
There are a lot of logical errors and rhetorical tricks that exist in discussing the immoral beliefs and behaviors of the past.
What about the Future
One favorite, and you will have to excuse my laziness in not finding an example to show (either you know this one or you will have accept my assurance it is totally a thing), involves an older conservative gentleman sad that admirable people of the past have had moral failings and wondering how the people of the future will feel about us and our moral failings that we are unaware of now but that will be apparent to them.
Well, personally I don’t give a shit about any moral failing the future might decide I had that I do not consider a failing. If the future decides that it is right to have sex with squirrels because it unlocks their latent psychic powers I’d tell the future to go to hell and that I didn’t care about its opinion.
Ok but what about a more likely scenario — the future is upset because of my not having done enough to halt climate change — well that is a bit different because I agree that it is urgent to stop climate change. I might feel that there is not a lot I can do, but I am essentially in agreement with the future’s moral argument here and so I might very well feel sad and hurt by the judgement of the future on my failings.
I suppose in the same way that if we judge Thomas Jefferson a bad man for having slaves and being a rapist he would either be sad because he knew that what he was doing was wrong and did it anyway because he found the benefits too good to renounce, or he would not give a damn regarding whatever ideas we had other than being somewhat down on learning the forces of what he considered righteousness lost.
People knew it was bad back then too
As you’ve probably realized most of this article is going to be about slavery for the simple reason that it is generally slavery and its attendant evil of racism that inspires these arguments. Wonder why?
This argument gets trotted out when someone says people didn’t know it was wrong and that everyone thought the same. Then someone points out there were plenty of people against slavery.
It is true that there were plenty of abolitionists and the underground railway was a thing, but still most of the population in one part of the country believed in slavery and were pretty damn racist.
As far as the racism of the other parts of the country, it should be noted that just because one was an abolitionist it did not always follow that one believed in equality of the races.
There were plenty of racist people who just did not believe in slavery.
Who asks you to respect the Slaver
In so many cases it is just obviously people for whom the return of slavery might be a really good thing, or if not all the way back there at least the separation of the races prevalent before the 60s.
The people who want to repeat the worst sins of a person are the ones forced to extol their greatest virtues.
So that answers the wonder why question from earlier.
Would you be the Slaver is the real Question
Well obviously not you, since you don’t believe in slavery or racism (although you have always wanted to vacation in Dubai and see other countries where slavery is very much still a going concern) but another you, a you raised about a decade before the civil war in the South, perhaps in a family that had slaves.
Would you believe in slavery and racism and be willing to die to defend them or would you have given your life to end it? Would you have been a member of the underground railroad? Would you have freed your slaves if you inherited them.
Now you might think that I believe you wouldn’t and yes, statistically it seems unlikely you would, dear person I don’t know, no matter how much you abhor the people who were slaveholders back then. But I am willing to accept that you would have stood against slavery, let’s talk about it.
It’s a Nature Vs. Nurture question
Obviously if your Nature determines who you are completely and your opinions then you will be against slavery and racism no matter where you end up, so that is not very interesting. Although obviously you would probably be against a whole Nature argument as that has often been used in the past to justify slavery and racism based on some ‘natural’ trait that, given greater analysis, seems to be more variable than intrinsic nature would argue.
But just as it would not be interesting if only Nature determined who you are it is not interesting if Nurture determines it. If the personality is wholly determined by Nurture then you are the person you are, against racism and slavery, due to your upbringing and if you were instead brought up in a racist slave-holding society then you would be that racist slave-holding person.
Frankly if you believe wholly in nurture and are complaining of the morality of the people of the past, you’re a jerk who wants to look down on people who have not enjoyed your advantages.
If you believe wholly in nature and are complaining of the morality of the people of the past you’re still a jerk who wants to look down on people who are not as good as you for no fault of their own.
Only an epigenetic combination of nature and nurture is indeterminate enough that we can do what everyone wants to do when discussing the morals of the past, Namely to swan around with one’s nose upturned feeling superior to all those who did not do what you surely would have done.
How much have you rebelled lately?
Now obviously this really pertains to White People, or maybe Black or other Shades of color people living outside of the Slave states, but if someone claims they would have stood up and fought against slavery or racism when born into the society based on those things then I think it is reasonable to suggest, if it is not just self-aggrandizement, that there should be some evidence not following the rules of present society.
There is of course the chance maybe they find the present so perfect that the idea of rebellion never occurs. But I just can’t believe that hypothetical — in my experience the people that are willing to go against things are innately dissatisfied — the worst would bomb Utopia, but even the best would probably stand every day in the park shouting down Utopia and its ideals. And there is every shade of disconnect in between.
Cases where I do stuff
So what about me? Would I be all moral?
Hey I can certainly envision scenarios, given my past life, where I am in the South and raised in a slave-holding community and turn against slavery — here are the scenarios, not in any particular order.
Scenario 1: The rich spoiled jerk flips off the town
A jerk! But the best kind of jerk, the one who is right!! That is soooo me.
In this scenario I inherit a plantation and because I hate my family I sell it off and free the slaves. Freeing the slaves in this case is part of the whole flipping off the town and my family. I then probably go to San Francisco with my money, spend it all on booze and cheap women, and die in an opium den. If I somehow survive past my twenties I probably luck into being a telegraph operator or start a small newspaper.
Likelihood: This requires me to do things not in my best interest as it were, and whoa, do I have some history to back up my ability to go against my best interest! It would require me to have some bad relationship with my parents to probably prompt me to become an antisocial guy who, once my good opinion is lost, will wait to get even with your ass.
So in this scenario I do the right thing as a petty bit of revenge.
Since I cannot envisage being me and both liking my parents, my society, my place in it, and the institution of slavery all AT THE SAME TIME!! This scenario seems reasonably likely — but as Upton Sinclair once remarked “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”
Sure, lots of people seem to think they would be able to understand slavery was wrong if their financial support was all based on slavery. but I find poverty and intelligence combined a far more reliable instructor in the unfairness of life than wealth and innate moral goodness, probably because I lack that innate moral goodness so many people are overflowing with, damn them.
Scenario 2: Having determined society is corrupt — I rob banks!
So the first scenario finds a way that I am born into a position to benefit from the slave holding society and yet still renounce it.
Assuming though I was born poor and considering my character and the society of the South before the Civil-War it does seem like there would be lots of reasons for me to not consider it worthwhile to work assiduously, curry favor with my social superiors, and rise in a society I would consider corrupt (it is easier to see the corruption of something that does not benefit you)
So, living in a slave holding, racist society but being a misanthropic guy who hates authority I determine that there are black people who are the equal of white people and therefore society is corrupt ergo I can do what I want!
This allows me to get up at slightly before Noon every day after staying out all night whoring and drinking (sexual liberation and good drugs not available this was the compromise of the time), and because society is evil getting my money by robbing banks, trains, and probably slave owners because hey, it means I am attacking a corrupt system!
Now wait, I can hear you ask, what are you doing to actually help the condition of enslaved peoples in this scenario?
Probably nothing I answer.
I probably wouldn’t do any helping slaves stuff in this scenario. Basically this is the behavior of someone acting out their misanthropic tendencies — and misanthropes are generally not likely to put effort into any moral project. Noted here:
The misanthrope hates the moralist for three reasons:
The first is the same reason that everyone else does (leaving out those who explicitly oppose the moralist’s goals), because the moralist demands that they get up off their ass and do something.
Actively working to help enslaved people when living in the South pre-Civil War would have required not just personal bravery/willingness to pursue risk but also personal organization, and personal organization in pursuit of a moral goal requires belief that moral improvement is possible, which belief is highly alien to the misanthropic mind.
The Misanthrope is too pessimistic about improvement of the world to really pursue it, and are likely to just step aside and work on themselves (where work on themselves means being able to point at the world and say how much it sucks). Hence in this scenario I would be busy smashing the system by robbing the banks!!
OK, maybe not smashing the system, but at least not contributing to it. In such a scenario the person who is doing more to smash the system can be scorned by the misanthrope because nothing will actually improve the world, such naivete! While the person who is not doing anything to smash the system can be looked down on by the misanthrope for not having as high a moral stature. The best of both worlds for the misanthrope.
That said, it might transpire that some day I am out riding around and there is the baying of hounds and I see an escaped slave and I knowing my character I would probably say, get on the horse let’s go! Because of course the shot of pure adrenaline this would give would fight off the depressive character which misanthropy is an expression of.
Good lord, IF I ended up helping someone escape in this kind of happenstance way I would probably be an insufferable prick about it for years afterwards and rob twice as many banks because of how morally justified I would feel. Meanwhile people are actually doing the hard work of fighting the system while I get to say, shit I don’t support the system, I don’t pay taxes, I don’t work, I rob all day and fuck all night, and hey — one time I helped a slave escape HURRAH! None of you bastards can tell me nothing!!
Likelihood: based on my past, assuming misanthropy, depression, and chasing thrills is nature and not nurture. Pretty darn likely, the only unlikely bit is actually running into a slave mid-escape and thereby getting the opportunity to help.
Scenario 3: My Friends are in the Underground Railroad
So if I had friends that said — “hey, loser, get in we’re going slave-liberating!” Somewhere in the age between 19–27 with the character I had at that age, then yes, of course my friends are suggesting we go do some dangerous shit we will probably get shot or hanged for?!? I ain’t backing down!
Obviously my friends would have to be the ones that did all the real organizing in this scenario, I’m just along for the dangerous ride. Hopefully my friends don’t get me killed but if they do, hey that’s life!
Likelihood: No idea, as a general rule I have never really been asked to join any friend for doing anything dangerous that was also good.
Obvious simple stuff like we’re going to a demonstration would come up, to which I would reply OK I go to demonstration with you but generally my dangerous stuff was more like we’re going to throw molotov cocktails at the skinheads, sure it’s ‘good’ in one way but it’s also a different kind of good than going to free slaves. Let’s go get in fights with rednecks, yay, was also a big hit in my 20s! Fucking up people you don’t like is not as nice as helping people you don’t know, but it is generally more fun — even if those people have been fucked up by people you don’t like.
I have never experienced the actual scenario of there is a great evil in the land and we must use all our wit and bravery to fight it. So I think actually the likelihood of this scenario seems low, I never seem to have made friends of anyone more moral than I myself am but also with a willingness to take risks.
Scenario 4: I have a completely crazy idea and need your help
Another of those born poor and resenting the rich slaver owners situations!
This is where I decide to do something about the ‘slavery situation’ to make a statement, and enlist help from my more organized, socially committed acquaintances.
This kind of thing pretty much only came up once in my student years and I was not extremely committed to it.
I had been out one night doing LSD with some friends, one of whom was a staunch vegetarian and also had some connections to the ALF. There was some animal experimentation of a particular nature I was against at a local University and I would have liked the ALF to provide some intelligence/organizational help so I could go there and fuck shit up.
In other words they do the hard work, I do the dangerous/thrilling stuff!
Towards the down part of the trip we decided to go to Denny’s and get some food, as this was the custom of our tribe.
We sat down, and my vegetarian friend who had been ragging at me about how awful meat-eating was all night flipped open the menu and announced dramatically with its nauseating pictures of meat “The Centerfold!”
To which I replied “Alright!”
To which he replied “Alright?”
The lesbians accompanying us were of course confused and asked “Alright, what?!”
“Alright, I will become a vegetarian — but you have to help set me up with the ALF so I can go destroy that animal testing lab!” What a shrewd negotiator I was! A deal was reached and I became a vegetarian.
This was not the greatest thing, because as it turned out I did not have the interest to keep myself alive while searching out alternatives to meat as sources of protein and so over the next month I started to regularly get nose bleeds while losing weight.
At the same time while I kept asking my friend “Did you talk to the ALF yet?” he kept replying “Uh, no, I forgot!” Which seemed really suspicious.
After a month our lesbian friends came over to see me, for some reason, and they suggested we go to McDonalds and get those Chicken Nuggets with the Barbecue sauce they knew I loved, and I said “No, Rick has to go talk to the ALF so I can go destroy the lab” and they said “Don’t be stupid, forget about Rick it’s not happening, yummy yummy Chicken Nuggets!” and I gave in to the allure of Lesbians — one of whom I had a crush on — And Chicken Nuggets.
Likelihood: I suppose I might have ended up going to do some cool thing and gotten all shot up for my troubles if I was alive back then, but maybe not because there was no LSD and I doubt beer and tobacco would have been inebriating enough to tempt me. So I would say extremely unlikely a scenario like this would have occurred.
Maybe if there was a plantation like that one in Django Unchained owned by DiCaprio and I saw one of the fights I’d be all riled up and more energetic but then I’d probably just set fire to the plantation and shoot some people. Shooting people being, as I understand it from light reading on the matter, the preferred solution of the times to disagreements over the morality of slavery.
Those were the most likely games to play
Now as you note in most of my scenarios I emphasized a risk-taking nature — frankly if you think you could be born into the South and help stand up to slavery because you say racism is wrong and vote the Democratic ticket then I think we need to see something more from you.
But just as much as I emphasized what I had that might make me a half-assed anti-slavery proponent in th 1850s or so, I also noted what would have kept me from being at all successful at it, that being a strong moral commitment and organizational capabilities.
Like them or hate them but people like Reality Winner, or members of antifa should be reasonably allowed to say I believe if I went back to that time I would be devoting my time to the abolitionist movement. If you don’t show the same zeal and commitment today it seems more likely you’d be Stephen Douglas than John Brown.
The People who really did the work
Most of the people who did the hard work of running the underground railroad were anyway black or members of religious groups opposed to slavery, like the Quakers.
Would you be a Quaker in the South? Again, people who were raised opposed to slavery were, amazingly anti-slavery. It’s no big feat people, but everybody who has ever annoyed me with their personal self-regard and nothing to back it up seems so certain that raised pro-slavery they would stand up to the system and tell it like it is.
A Little Aside
It’s actually sort of weird, how did the underground railroad manage to exist at all. I think maybe being a slaver makes people stupid.
I would think if some slaves ran off from a plantation the first thing the people looking would do would be to go by the Quakers and check it out, but that didn’t seem to work out, but maybe I can envisage a scene that explains it, based on my knowledge of modern American culture.
Scene — an idyllic farmhouse in the middle of the night. A man walks out of the front door and looks serenely into the darkness.
He is a Quaker!
A number of lights begin to flicker in the darkness, we can hear hounds, and horses, and the voices of angry men. Riding out of the darkness comes a mob of about a dozen men.
Our Quaker serenely lights a pipe, “Good evening Gentlemen”
At the front of the mob rides young Lewis Cauldwell, who angrily accuses our hero of harboring escaped slaves and of being a low-down, dirty abolitionist.
“Why Lewis Cauldwell, I am surprised at you and your apparent lack of reasoning capacity! Is it not true sir, that you have always held that I was a — what was the term — a pussy? Now really, do you think a pussy would have the gumption to help your slaves escape?”
The men are of course abashed at this very persuasive logic, one of the riders throws his torch to the ground in disgust and exclaims “Dang it, Lewis, you done fucked up again!” others are sagely agreeing amongst themselves that Quakers is pussies and so forth, and thus, not wanting to waste time any further they bid adieu and ride off to search elsewhere.
After which, our hero having gotten rid of the idiots, helps the escaped slave to their next meeting point on the Underground railroad.
Thinking about it I would be hard pressed not to tell Lewis Cauldwell off when the opportunity presented itself. I have heard I could be mouthy. And that’s how I would end up hanged, and the slaves I was supposed to help back on the plantation. But screw Lewis Cauldwell, sometimes you just gotta be a tough guy! (The name Lewis Cauldwell in this scenario has no relation to any Lewis Cauldwell currently living and maybe not to anyone dead, unless they were a slave owner in the decade prior to the Civil War)
Conclusion
I guess the points here have been quite covered — I certainly agree that the people who were pro-slavery were bad people, but it seems to me that everyone who goes around saying it seems to think they would be better people. This seems a strange belief to have as I hold the naive view that most people would fall somewhere in the middle, but now that everyone knows slavery was wrong everyone thinks they would have been a hero.
It’s the same kind of thing that you see in watching an action film, many people fantasize themselves the lead and never consider they just might be one of the people running away. Or perhaps the lead’s wisecracking sidekick, or perhaps the ineffectual guy who does some shit but gets shot while the lead takes care of business. But fantasizing about an action movie at least has the excuse that this is what the action movie wants you to do, history probably does not want you to fanfic decisive moments when you Mary Sue events as they unfold.
So — if you are convinced you would have been better — what in your life makes you think that under trying and harsh circumstances you would have risked your life to stand up against chattel slavery? What makes you think that you would have thrown away your money and means of support if you were born into a slave-holding family? What decisions have you made in your life that almost everyone who saw it thought that you were crazy, and hated you because the decision showed you placed yourself in opposition to your family, friends, and society?
The Preceding article was written by IG Agent 77 with some help from Agent 18, two fuckups who we still keep employed here because they at least deliver articles on time.
Other Resources:
Notes by Agent 86.
There were a few claims made in this article such as:
As far as the racism of the other parts of the country, it should be noted that just because one was an abolitionist it did not always follow that one believed in equality of the races.
And
people who were raised opposed to slavery were, amazingly anti-slavery.
both of these points are well documented in the book
Please Note that the link above is an affiliate link, meaning that Illuminati Ganga gets some small parts of the money if you follow it and buy something! Please Choose Wisely!
Agent 81 made me aware of this connection last week, so I have added it to the end of this article.
