I Guess People Showed Up

An interview with Little Jo Berry’s Little Jo

Vegan treats aren’t for everyone… or are they? At Little Jo Berry’s in the heart of Hintonburg they certainly are. A true community staple, Jo’s adorable little cafe has become a regular spot for many — and it’s not just because of the amazing food and coffee. We sat down with Jo to chat about her philosophy and how she’s made her cafe feel like home.

Amber: Let’s start by learning how Little Jo Berry’s was born.

Jo: I used to work at another bakery for about four or five years and then they closed down unexpectedly. I had no schooling, I had nothing waiting for me. I had worked part-time at Bridgehead on and off for a really long time so I just started up there full-time, which was a huge shock to think, “Oh, this is where I’m at right now. I’m back at Bridgehead after being in a job that I thought was my career.” I remember my first shift was the day after we closed and I was working and then crying a lot on the floor. I was thinking I might move to Montreal, I might rent a farm — all this stuff that makes no sense. Then my brother came to visit me and we were talking and I said this thing about a farm. I started this big rant about moving to the country and he asked if I actually wanted to do that. I stopped and thought, “Well, no. I actually think I just might start my own business.” As soon as I said it I realized that is what I wanted to do. I had imagined doing that when I was much older but it kind of just made sense to go for it. A week later I was checking out spaces and then about a year later we opened.

Amber: So what was the process like to get some form of funding or bank support to actually make this happen?

Jo: Yeah, it’s difficult because I was young [25] when we started and banks just don’t trust you — it’s not a thing. I went out for Futurpreneur, which is a youth mentorship program, and applied for a bunch of loans/grants and got rejected for a lot of them. I did qualify though for Futurpreneur and they assign you with a mentor. The cool thing about working with them is they force you to look at things that you don’t know are real. So they would send me task lists and be like, “Today you need to look this up, or you need to make this chart”. I’d be like, “No problem, I’ll get back to you by the end of the day”, and then I’d have to Google what it was they were even asking for.

Amber: Did you find that more motivating or scary?

Jo: At first I thought there’s no way I can do this. Even applying for permits or getting incorporated makes no sense if you’ve never done it. Something else that’s weird is that a lot of times you take a meeting somewhere (like at the bank) and they don’t really know either. You think that someone is going to have all the answers, but nobody knows.

Amber: …and it must be hard for you to know who to trust or listen to.

Jo: Exactly. I just remember talking about how frustrating it was that nobody knew. I just realized that I can do it however I want, and that’s kind of nice. That definitely made me feel more excited about it. I just did whatever I thought and then, if it got flagged, I’d just figure it out. Until then, I’d just learn as much as I could and do as much as I could because no one really knows.

Amber: So what was the most challenging part about that?

Jo: The hardest part about all of that was building this space. My brother is a tradesperson, so he did all the work. Before we moved in there was no floor. The floor was actually a step down, so he had to actually lay cement and build it and we put up a wall. The hardest thing for me was that I would come and help out and I don’t know how to do that kind of work. One day, when we had just the frame of the wall up, he left me with a list of things to do and one was putting the molding, patching it up, and sanding it. I just wanted to get to where I can make a latte, and I remember spending hours here and being exhausted after 20 minutes. I really wanted to help create the space, though. I felt like that was pretty important.

Amber: So why Ottawa? What does Ottawa mean to you?

I feel like a few times in my life I have picked other cities as an escape. I kind of forget how much I love Ottawa. When I travel and then come back to Ottawa I feel calm. I always feel like I had a good trip but this is where I want to be. I’ve lived here since I was 17 and I’m 26 now, so it’s been awhile.

No matter where I’ve lived around Ottawa, people have been so nice to me. Everyone says hi on the streets, everyone is just so friendly, and there’s just something about that. It just feels like home all the time. People really want other people to do well and I don’t think that’s a common trait in a lot of cities — but Ottawa has that.

Amber: How many hats do you wear as the owner of Little Jo Berry’s?

Jo: I don’t know. It’s weird to have your own business. For me, especially with our social media, I use my personal account as the shop account. So all the personal accounts I had when I was growing the business did really well because I was honest about the steps I took. When something was hard or when I was excited I would post on my personal accounts and people really liked that, so I just kept it going. I like that but it’s also tricky because my face is a big part of the brand. It’s a lot of pressure because I still want to be tired sometimes. It’s really important to be “on” and always friendly.

Amber: How often do you work, how often are you here?

Jo: Sunday is like my short day but it’s usually four to twelve and then I leave, so it’s still a full shift but it’s different because I leave, but I am still here quite a bit.

Amber: Is your business scalable or are you looking to stay local?

Jo: Yeah, I really like this shop and this neighbourhood. I don’t think I would like it if I wasn’t able to interact with my customers or hang out with my staff. Everyone who comes here is so nice and we get all these little kids who come here. If I couldn’t see that little nice stuff I don’t know if it would enjoy it. I remember once, on Instagram, I posted, “It’s been a really hard week, thanks everyone”, and then two of my regulars brought me a big basket of craft stuff they had made. It’s little stuff like that that makes me want to hustle and do more.

Amber: If you could go back to day one, how would you go about building your business differently? What’s the biggest lesson you learned?

Jo: There are so many lessons, everyday. Even today I’ll probably learn ten things. I feel like it took a few months to learn I need support. Everyone warns you to have support in place, whether it’s making sure you’re getting enough sleeping or going for dinner with friends, or whatever you need. When you first start your own business, because you’re riding that high, you think you’re invincible.

I feel like I’m lucky because someone took a picture of me once making a drink and I was laughing but I looked so tired. Then I realized I just needed sleep! I feel like for the first few months I didn’t believe my body and I didn’t believe my mental health, I just thought it would pass. We’ve closed twice (for 3 days each) since we’ve been open so the whole staff could be away. After both times I felt so much healthier coming back, even inspired, and was so much more ready to work. I think a lot of people don’t want to do that when they first open. I think it took me a few months to learn that but now that I know that about my working style I think that was the best lesson I could have learned.

Amber: How’s your relationship with other businesses in Hintonburg/Ottawa?

Jo: We work with a lot of other businesses. We sell Renew here and Top Shelf Preserves, and we wholesale different black coffee. There’s a business called Mad Faux Cheese and they’re a cashew based cheese. The owner works for me part-time and by doing that and wholesaling her cheese she’s able to grow her business. We’re also about to start a similar deal with Kitty Kate Confections. Being able to have other people who are passionate about food work with me is so great.

Amber: That’s what I was going to ask too, how do you build your team and how do you make sure you have those people who are as passionate as you?

Jo: I had worked with all my baristas at Bridgehead, so that’s how I got my team. What happened was I didn’t have anyone hired when we opened and then our first two days were really busy. We had long lineups and I guess people came, so I had to hire a team. I remember Sage, who was my first hire, was in line on one of our opening days and I said “Sage, can you come work here”, and she was like, “Yeah girl!” Then eventually I just found the right fit from people I’d worked with. My kitchen staff is kind of the same thing. It’s people I’ve known through work and my personal life who I vibe with really well.

Amber: I think I only have like one more question. If we look at your industry, what are some of the trends you are seeing? And is that something that you always look out for, or do you just do your own thing?

Jo: Yeah, definitely. I look to see what’s new and what’s fun, 100%. Before we opened I spent a weekend in Toronto, I went to Montreal, I went to vegan cafes or dairy-free shops, but then I just went to normal coffee shops as well that I thought were cool. I am definitely pulling a lot from shops and getting inspired by others pretty often. Even things like our moon party. We just had it here and it was really busy for us. It was essentially just because all of my friends had been talking about astrology a lot (like out of control, non-stop) and I was like, “Ooh, we should have a party about that topic. It’s so popular.” We had horoscope astrology, charcoal ice cream, jet black sailor moon, and we had like a 3-hour lineup at the door. But yeah, just seeing what’s going on and then trying to base something around it has worked really well.