Tucker Carlson and Les U. Knight Talk About Modern Human Extinction

Typical mammal species last about 1 million years — we are a subspecies of Homo sapiens who had a good run, about 1.3 million years, until we moderns came along

All other humans went extinct soon after encountering us modern humans, we who are the last hominin standing.

On Dec. 2, 2005, Les U. Knight (not his real name), the founder/spokesman of an environmental movement, the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (VHEMT pronounced vehement), who advocates for extinction of the human race by getting everyone to voluntarily stop breeding, was helped by Tucker Carlson to spread his POV.

The “news” of Tucker’s interview went viral (was spread) on mainstream media (MSNBC, NBC, with recent NYT mention). It was an event not unlike Ted Kaszynski's getting his manifesto published by the NYT and Washington Post.

Transcript [with comments]

TUCKER CARLSON: You want to eliminate the human race. How unhappy was your childhood?

LES KNIGHT, FOUNDER, VOLUNTARY HUMAN EXTINCTION MOVEMENT: I know, a lot of people think that. No, no.

CARLSON: It’s an obvious conclusion. Why would you want to do that? What would you want to be — want people to become extinct?

KNIGHT: Well, it’s either us or millions of other species going extinct [e.g. 8.7+ million species of eukaryotes]. You know, before we go too far, I should explain that this is through voluntarily not breeding [which can’t work unless 100% of humans join VHEMT and if they have children, make certain that none of them breed].

CARLSON: Right.

KNIGHT: We’re not advocating…

CARLSON: You’re not calling for genocide.

KNIGHT: No, or any kind of increase in death. We’re calling for a decrease in death, actually [but as a member of MHEM (Modern Human Extinction Movement), I support suicide, which VHEMT does not, which is one reason I can’t join them].

CARLSON: OK. But you’re calling for people to go away. I guess the obvious answer is what if we prefer our species to those other species? Right? I mean, isn’t it fair for human beings to want to perpetuate their own species?

KNIGHT: Well, it would be fair if that’s all we did [as K-strategists living in a global population of maybe 7–35 million] and if we let the others also survive and exist [by living as Earth Guardians within carrying capacity], if we could peacefully coexist [and if not, we will further reduce our population and/or per capita impact — I=PATS]. But ever since we became Homo sapiens, we haven’t been able to do that. [We became Homo sapiens about 1.3 million years ago and Homo sapiens sapiens, as one subspecies, about 375 thousand years ago (kya); and the modern form of human arose in Africa about 75 kya before rapidly expanding out of Africa 55 kya to conquer the planet they evidently viewed as for the taking.]

CARLSON: What do you mean? I mean, there are many species of plant and animal that are thriving. [The Anthropocene mass extinction event is underway, currently about 1k times extinction rate as usual heading to 10k times by the end of this century.]

KNIGHT: We still haven’t gotten to them yet. We’re working on it though.

CARLSON: But that’s literally true. I mean, there are all sorts of, you know, insects [collapse of] and algae.

KNIGHT: You bet.

CARLSON: There are a lot of living things on this Earth, and a lot of them are doing quite well [e.g. Holocene mass extinction].

KNIGHT: They are [not], yes, [evermore not, except] especially the ones that can adapt to our civilizations, like pigeons and rats. But there are many species which have gone extinct, due to our increase. There are so many of us. Wherever we live, not much else lives. [Agriculture’s endeavor to feed 8+ billion people is the number one driver of extinction.]

CARLSON: So what’s the point of saving the earth if there would be no people around to enjoy it?

KNIGHT: Well, I know that’s a question a lot of people ask. And it’s obvious that they’re not thinking about all the other species. We are just one of 10 million [eukaryotes]. Who knows how many? We’ve only catalogued two million. And to think that we — the entire planet is just for us — is rather human centered.

CARLSON: Of course it’s human centered. We’re [modern] humans. Now you apparently, I was reading that there are parents in this group?

KNIGHT: Sure.

CARLSON: What do your children say? What do you say to your kids? “Yes, I joined a group that is opposed to you”?

KNIGHT: No, no. We’re not opposed to existing children. In fact, that’s a large part of it. We’re not taking care of the children that are already here. How can we, in good conscience, create more children when so many are dying of preventable cause?

CARLSON: But wait a second. What do you mean you’re not against children? If I’m — if I hire an exterminator to kill the rats in my basement, I’m against rats. You’re against having more children come into the world, so you’re anti-children. I mean, how are you not?

KNIGHT: No, no. We’re pro-children once the child is here. What we’re against is conception.

CARLSON: That is so wildly anti-[modern] human. I mean, don’t you see beauty in the creation of [modern] human life?

KNIGHT: Well, I see beauty in the creation of almost all lives. There’s a trade off here. The more of us [moderns], the fewer of them. I mean, baby humans are cute, but so are baby pandas.

CARLSON: I don’t know, how about baby maggots? Are they as cute as a baby child?

KNIGHT: They may not be as cute, but you know, their existence is far more essential to the Earth’s biosphere than Homo sapiens.

CARLSON: OK. So you see a moral equivalence between the birth of a maggot baby and the birth of a human baby?

KNIGHT: Well, that’s twisting it a bit. [As misinformed by MHEM, adding 140 million maggot babies to the planet per year has not measurable impact, so there is a clear difference of ethical concern.]

CARLSON: I don’t know [the only claim we modern humans can make that is always true]. I’m trying to listen to what you think [as I try to listen to what Carlson thinks on occasion].

KNIGHT: When you think of the biosphere as a whole and how ecosystems interact with each other, when an exotic invader comes in, as we are, and starts disrupting the other species…

CARLSON: Exotic. Are you a Scientologist? What do you mean, invader? We’re not invaders. We’re from here [as are all other invasive species].

KNIGHT: Well, we’ve only been on the North American continent about 20,000 years, which is pretty recent. Each time Homo sapiens move into a continent [or island, e.g. Madagascar, New Zealand…], a spasm of extinctions occur. And we are continuing it today.

CARLSON: If you don’t mind my asking, who did you vote for in the last election?

KNIGHT: You know, I can’t remember. Somebody asked me that the other day. Didn’t seem that important.

CARLSON: Yes. What are your politics, generally?

KNIGHT: I’m an anarchist. But you know, the full range of political thought exists within the movement.

CARLSON: Interesting. And there are children in the movement, too? [There is recognition of an “age of consent” typically varying from 14–18 years old, range 11 Nigeria to 21 Bahrain for doing adult things like joining a movement, otherwise a new born could be a Christian or anarcho-syndicalist and libertarian socialist.]

KNIGHT: Yes. You know, I think the youngest is about 10. There aren’t really very many. But a lot of people who are in the movement think — have said that they thought of this when they were 6 or 7. It’s not a really complicated thing to realize that Earth’s biosphere is being disrupted by one species, and that one species is us.

CARLSON: I will say, that is the sickest thing I think I’ve ever heard, but you are one of the cheeriest guests we’ve ever had. I don’t know how to — how the two fit together, but I appreciate you coming on. Thanks a lot.

KNIGHT: Thank you, Tucker.

The End

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So, if you are not going to breed anyway (or anymore than you have), then joining VHEMT involves zero change in life as you know it. And the “voluntary” first thought signals all Anthropocene enthusiasts, like Carlson and viewers (the 99.999+%), that you are completely harmless. Les Knight started VHEMT in 1991, and the pace of planetary destruction has not slowed. That’s why I’m not going to join.

I am only interested in joining a movement whose goals could be implemented, e.g. the extinction of all modern humans. Ted Kaczynski murdered three individuals and injured 23 others in a nationwide mail bombing campaign against people who believed in advancing modern technology and (mostly unintended) destruction of a planetary life-support system.

Killing a few people wasn’t nearly enough, but Ted’s aim was to have his manifesto published in mainstream media so a significant number of modern humans would hear his message (he succeeded). He hoped the outcome, if there were enough others out there like him, would be that they would self-organize to destroy modern techno-industrial (MTI) society before the Anthropocene mass extinction event included all humans (not just modern humans).

Jared Diamond was on the right track when he noted that the development of agriculture was humanity’s (normal pre-modern human’s) worst mistake. While the proximal origins of MTI society only goes back about a thousand years ago (kya) to Europe, the distal begging was about 75 kya in Africa. The mistake made then involved allowing ideology (belief in belief) to hijack their minds, necessary to replace their K-culture and cancel their K-strategist biological instincts going back 500 million years of more.

There were not, it turns out, enough others out there to show some courage and endeavor to destroy global MTI society sooner than later, a condition that will come anyway. If Ted hadn’t done what he did, I wouldn’t know there were not enough others, and so I might have had to do what he did.

I have to try to do something else, e.g. destroy the MTI form of civilization one mind at a time, which doesn’t imply a laying on of hands on one person at a time, but the spreading of memes that will destroy modern humans, whether by voluntary suicide or making it impossible to be enthusiastic in one’s service to MTI civilization/culture/worldview/mindset because you lack the same, i.e. have mutated memetically.

Unlike VHEMT, implied is that everything you think you know, and life as you know it and live it, is subject to radical involuntary change. Any call for voluntary action/change will be more business as usual, a distraction, with the same outcome of no significant change in our trajectory towards extinction.

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For involuntary change, join MHEM. The belief that you are a free agent, with free will to choose your future (or get modern humans to choose their future), is error floating on a sea of ignorance in a thick fog of illusion.

[Note: MHEM includes members who celebrate Modern human life and favor the extinction of all life that humans do not value. A minority faction views the condition of being a Modern human the way AA members view the condition of being an alcoholic — i.e. non-viable. The author is obviously one of the “Or-nots” who seek to “just say no” to the Anthropocene.]