Episode 1 of The Micromobility Podcast: Setting the scene for the great unbundling

Link to the show: http://5by5.tv/micromobility

Welcome to Micromobility, a podcast exploring the disruption that comes from new lightweight utility vehicles. Using the history of computing as a framework, we unpack what business models and impacts we’re likely to see in transport in cities. The host of the show is Horace Dediu, founder of Asymco, and his cohost is Oliver Bruce.

This podcast is for software and computing professionals who want to understand how the transportation industries will be affected by their work.

In this inaugural episode, Horace outlines the key themes and issues he wants to address in the show series including:

1. Defining micromobility — what is it, where did it come from and why does it matter?
2. The disruptive potential of micromobility. With this, we will unpack why the current fixation on autonomy with automobiles is misplaced, and what a distributed, connected robot of micro mobility vehicles might look like.
3. The great unbundling of the car — what does it mean, and why the micromobility was required to make multimodality a feasible unbundled option for travel.
4. How the emergence of micromobility tracks the development of the early days of computing, and why we’re still really in 1976 with the emergence of the Apple I.
5. How disruption from the low end induces demand and drives such steep adoption curves. We also unpack why their scale will permit the development of large scale computation platforms, especially vs. traditional car platforms.
6. The impact of the emergence of micromobility on infrastructure and how cities function.
7. How the business models of this might emerge, how securitisation of the assets deployed will enable rapid deployment, and lay the foundations for tokenised solutions that align the interests of users, operators and investors together.
8. Key themes we’ll also hit:

• Marchetti’s constant (time budgets for travel)
• Log normal distributions of travel time, and their relevance for micromobility, and why we’re likely to see an explosion of shorter distance travel with the emergence of micromobility and a thought experiment on how teleportation would change everything.

Hope you enjoy, and feel free to leave comments here or hit us up on Twitter at @asymco or @oliverbruce.

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[00:00:00] Horace: : Hello there and welcome to a pilot episode of MicroMobility. I’m Horace Dediu. You may have heard of The Critical Path as a show I’ve done in the past as well as Asymcar. With me, I have Oliver Bruce. Oliver is actually on the other side of the Earth from me right now. I’m in New England and Oliver’s in Auckland, New Zealand. Now Oliver some people know who I am but I want you to tell them who you are and how we came together.

Oliver: Yeah, absolutely. Hey everyone. My name is Oliver Bruce. Until recently, I was at Uber where I worked in strategic projects and regional operations across Australia and New Zealand. I also started our blockchain working group looking at the opportunities in blockchain at Uber. I had a long history in sustainability and transport when I was in university. I’m an environmentalist at heart and transport is obviously one of the fastest growing areas of emissions. [00:01:00] Both at Uber and before, I’ve had the opportunity in my career to unpack where disruptive innovation can really help reduce emissions and also as well and enable new business models. I’d been following what Horace is doing with Asymcar and getting really excited. We started this conversation because we were both looking at this space and seeing that it wasn’t just bikes or Transport-as-a-Service, but actually that there were a bunch of new business models emerging that we think are going to be really really really impactful and make a really big difference in the world. So this is an opportunity for us to kind of explore that. I think that’s probably the best way to describe it as that Horace?

Horace : Yeah. Thanks that makes a lot of sense. Oliver reached out to me a couple of years ago when I was on The Critical Path, or maybe it was listening to Asymcar to have a conversation on what is going on in the shared mobility space and educated me on a few details and then recently reached out and said ‘Hey, listen, I actually going to be leaving Uber, I’d like to talk to you about maybe doing some kind of podcast together’. [00:02:00] And so we ended up creating this podcast because I didn’t really fit into the existing two shows that I’ve been doing which is The Critical Path and Asymcar. The Critical Path is all about Apple and really mobility as a consumer electronics business — ie. iPhones.

It’s funny because with transportation and consumer electronics, the word in common between these two spheres is mobility. It’s sort of a coincidence that when we think in computing about mobility we think about small devices. It’s interesting that we see repetition here and there’s a sort of a rhyme that happens on micromobility in terms of the evolution of transportation towards a smaller form factor.

So the subtitle of the show is ‘the disruption that comes from micromobility’. [00:03:00] Micromobility means vehicles which are not cars and yet they are motorized. It really comes from a regulatory setting and I like it for another reason which is that it blends of the history of computing and transport. Personal computing used to be called microcomputing which itself was an extension of minicomputing which was itself an alternative to regular computing which were the main frames of the 1960s and 70s. So by the 1980s, a microcomputer was an Apple 2 or was IBM PC but for about a decade or so, we really talked about microcomputers instead of talking about PC’s. Microcomputing predates the PC.

So having said all that, micromobility and modern mobility are the theme of the show and what we’re trying to do is capture the idea. [00:04:00] And it’s a disruptive idea. That the great innovation that will happen in transportation will not come from making big cars better, which is what a lot of autonomy thinking is about, and it’s also not just making them shared, although sharing is important to the whole story, but it’s what happens at the low end. What happens when you look at really small vehicles when you think about the human body and what you need as a minimum to move it.

It’s about personal transportation. We might touch a little bit on public transportation, but it is very much about the individual being moved as opposed to the community. These two blend at some point, but we really want to focus on the personal transport. Cycling is one part of it but the thing about machines that help us move is going to be more focused on motorized machines, so for example e-bikes, or assisted bikes. What’s interesting to us is anything from skateboards with motors in them all the way up to four-wheeled vehicle with a motor in it. [00:05:00]

The distinction is going to be a weight boundary. The weight I’m picking right now is 500kgs, which is about 1100 pounds. The reason I picked that weight is because there are almost no cars that are that small or that light. So anyway, Oliver. Tell me why you’re motivated by this space and I want to talk about sharing and also you mentioned blockchains.

Oliver: So two things that add to that. One is, I own an e-bike and have just been blown away by that experience. I remember listening to you talking about the disruptive potential of e-bikes. When you realize that it enables people to travel a lot further with what was a traditional bike, you see that it really solves a different job to be done. They’ve kind of been a sleeper hit here in New Zealand. [00:06:00] But I think the big thing that I’m excited about is what happens when you combine this new technology with new business models. What I’m really interested in is tracking that and the explosion in sharing especially around electric vehicles, especially small electric vehicles. You can just see the onto something but nobody’s quite really cracked it yet. There’s obviously some really active acquisitions going on in the space at the moment. Uber just bought Jump for $200 million.

Horace : Yeah we should mention that. So Jump was just acquired by Uber. Jump is a bike sharing system that’s been around for a long time, but they just just started doing E-bike sharing with a sort of its smart bike with onboard compute sensing and communications.

Similarly there’s Didi in China which didn’t quite acquire but invested heavily in Ofo, which is one of the pioneering bike sharing systems in China. [00:07:00] We’re going to do a whole show about China bikeshare. It’s particularly interesting because from a disruption point of view, bike owning bike networks and getting people to share their cars are very distinct business models. The one thing about bike sharing is that you have to own the bikes. Whoever is sharing them has to have that asset on its books. Whereas when you’re a classic ridesharing business you don’t have any assets on your books. Cars are owned by their drivers which are essentially contractors. And this is why this is such a different thing. It’s fascinating. Nonetheless, they considered it important enough to invest in this space.

One thing I think is very important is the segmentation. Micromobility is small physically tiny vehicles and the the boundary layer of 500kgs, but there’s another way to look at it, which is by the distances that they travel. [00:08:00] Distances that small vehicles travel are typically quite small, and the distances that large vehicles travel are typically quite large. I mean you can easily see that at the extremes where it’s unlikely that you would go more than 1 or 2 kilometers on a skateboard whereas if you’re in a ship or an airplane, which are the largest vehicles we have, you’re going to go very far distance. And so in between you’ve got all these classifications.

Now, the thing about cars is that they’re very flexible. They can go short distances then go pretty long distances. Over time it has grown to have this very broad span of applicability. But the interesting thing about microvehicles is that they are so good at short distances that they’re beginning to displace the car from it. This is what was observed in China. These cycling solutions were starting to eat up the zero to three kilometer range trips. [00:09:00] Didi who provides ride sharing services, according to management there, was actually seeing a decline in their 0–3 kilometer ride sharing business. We know millions and millions of people who are riding those every day and that the daily active user base I think is 70 million right now. That’s *daily* active users. What’s interesting is that these micro vehicles are increasingly getting better increasingly generating demand for the short distances that they cover. Often it’s not just taking share from an existing transport, but rather actually creating demand. Riders are saying, ‘well, I wouldn’t have taken this trip if it wasn’t for the availability of a bike or scooter outside my door’. The induction of demand is clearly what got us to the traffic we have today built in partly to satisfy the demand that the automobile created. Historically, one of the interesting things about transportation overall when you [00:10:00] study it, is that it creates demand as did computing as did communications. People didn’t have an inherent need to always be in touch with each other before the telephone and before computing. So we’re seeing this very interesting phenomenon of creation of demand applied to transportation. I think at the low end it’s fascinating how that’s playing out.

Anyhow, what I wanted to do is maybe give you a list of some interesting topics that we want to talk about. So we talked about what is micromobility and why it actually affects transportation in cities primarily. So how do we track progress? How do we define success? How do we measure it? How do we observe it daily? We’ll be looking at this sort of data in terms of cities and regulations, how it might affect real estate and how it might affect our living environment. [00:11:00] This is sort of a meta question, but historically it’s been shown the transport does affect all of that.

The next question would be what does computing have to do with it? I think one of the lovely things is that computers in the form of let’s say smartphones or smartphone technologies, easily is absorbed into these micromobility vehicles. It’s like they’re made for each other. Like a bike and a smartphone sort of can get married and have beautiful baby. It’s true. I mean, it’s much easier for those two to get together than for a car to get together with a smartphone.

They’ve been ignoring each other now for many years and this is one of the things we talked about on Asymcar. Why is that why is it that when you offer a smartphone technology to a car maker, they shrug and they give you a cup holder in exchange? To this day, they still haven’t standardized a way to get your phone docked into your car and yet I know many startups which are embedding smartphones into their scooters or bikes or shared vehicles. [00:12:00]

The phrase I use is sort of a mind for the bicycle. A mind for the bicycle is the micro computer that’s going to be embedded in the bicycle. And this is a take on a ‘bicycle for the mind’ which is what Steve Jobs said a computer was. We think of it as bringing intelligence to the vehicle more quickly through a micromobility vehicle than through a larger vehicle. It also has to do with the lifespan of the vehicles and their lead time to being put into production. Cars have notoriously slow lead times. The faster the vehicle the slower it is [to get into production]. The fastest vehicles we have are airplanes and they take 30 years to gestate.

You know, in terms of road transport the fastest vehicles we have are cars and they take five six years to gestate. If you look at a micro vehicle, they’re slow and pokey, but you can get one out in about six months. They are actually on the similar life cycle to smartphones themselves. [00:13:00] So where you can see the yearly cadence of smartphones for new product introductions, something similar can be maintained easily with the micro vehicle.

Oliver: Yeah, I was going to say the other thing with this as well that’s really interesting is the low price points. The length of time that the product will actually be held on to is typically shorter as well and so what you end up with is far quicker periods of iteration and also as well a quicker adoption inside that technology curve.

Horace : Exactly. So micromobility vehicles have a quick gestation period and if in shared-use, they have a fairly short life span. Now, it could be two three years depending on utilisation and then you can look at the numbers and if a vehicles is used three to four times a day, you’ll see it wearing out in a couple of years, which is about the the lifespan of a phone as well. By the way phones wear out mostly because the battery also wears out and this is another component that’s going to have high utilisation in the shared micro vehicle. We’re assuming of course that these are electric vehicles. [00:14:00] They’re benefiting from battery and compute technologies and they’re synchronized in terms of product development and life cycles. You can see how these two get along really well as technologies. So the mind for the bicycle is sort of the second theme we want to touch on after micromobility overall.

The next thing to really understand is the car as a bundle. This is something I’ve been proposing for a while. I call the unbundling of the car the great unbundling. Economically speaking, you can make money two different ways: bundling and unbundling. Whenever you see a great disruption occur, it’s usually because the business model unbundled or bundled that which was the opposite before it historically.

The car was a bundling of something that was unbundled. If you go back to the pre-automobile times you had transportation that was essentially piecemeal. You could walk you could take a tram, you could take a train, you could take a horse, but it was very hard to complete journeys without transferring between these modes. [00:15:00] When we think about bundling, the car did that and it was very successful doing it for a century.

But now we are in environments where we have huge amounts of congestion and huge infrastructural strain, forget about the environmental impact which will be a very strong top-down pressure from governments, but if you look at bottom up pressure on the car, it’s the fact that you can’t get around very quickly, especially in the city.

And so what happens is all those things that it was creating as a benefit, you know, getting through London or a major metropolitan area, actually ends up slower in a car than many alternatives especially these new micro vehicle. So you have these pressures building in cities. The relief valve for that will be micromobility.

If you unbundled a car, you realize that what the economics were that you prepay for a lot of trips or you at least you prepaid for the optionality. [00:16:00] That was a very expensive prepayment. You’d spent $35k, then you’d have to pay insurance, fuel, maintenance, repairs and on and on. Maybe that payment was financialized into a set of payments, but nonetheless the idea was that the manufacturer gets one lump of money every time they produce a car. That logic was again a bundling situation when you look at what is delivered.

So the unbundling is the idea that well you might use ridesharing, public transit or micro mobility and the challenge will be actually to make that a seamless experience to transition between these. This is actually is where a lot of the advanced theories about what we’re going to do to tokenize this stuff. That’s where we were going to touch on crypto assets as well as blockchain technology. And then we’re going to talk about why is this actually a show for technology people why until now we thought that software in vehicles meant autonomy meant robot driving, but it isn’t the only way you can inject software intelligence into the system. [00:17:00]

These vehicles are intelligent because they know where you’re heading and know where they’re dropping you off and on top of that they’re imaging and sensing vehicles. And so they help cities also to become intelligent about their environment and knowing what doesn’t work. So they’re learning environments for the city as a network. Furthermore they are essentially a distributed robot. It might seem odd. But if you think about millions of phones already acting as the distributed intelligence for communicating devices, but when these are also moving devices, we have this premise of distributed computing as a software revolution.

The reason again why micromobility is more important or more valuable in this context is that the adoption curve for micro vehicles is so steep relative to smart cars. As we talked about, they’re just synchronized with the release cycles that we’re going to get to tens maybe hundreds of millions of these vehicles in much much faster than single-digit millions of cars that are speaking the same language. Because these are assets under the control of one entity, we’re going to see potentially a lot of economies of scale happening very quickly. [00:18:00]

I’ll give one example, I think if you were to ask well how many BMWs are in the world? Well you can get a rough estimate because we know how many they’re selling every year and we know roughly how long they live and there’s 25 to 30 million BMWs in use of any time. But it’s nowhere near hundreds of millions, and that’s where you would need to be to have a software platform and have intelligence that you can really [00:19:00] leverage.

So it may be fine for BMW to try to get their 30 million users on to their platform, but the idea of really creating intelligence is going to require much more than that. I should note that BMW is only an example because there’s over 50 such companies in the world, and even the largest doesn’t have more than about 10% market share.

Toyota would be top single brand, and that’s barely 10 million units a year. So, you know with phones running and the billions of years units a year, we can see imagine a scenario where having a software platform on hundreds of millions of micromobile vehicles would create economies and the intelligence that we need to get really smart machine-to-machine or machine-to-city/infrastructure.

All of these elements that we’ve dreamt of as far as making smart cities, those elements are going to be there much more quickly with these vehicles than they are with cars.

Oliver: I think that it’ll also be really fascinating to see how jurisdictions, especially in a more democratic countries, respond to the rise of for example, the electric scooters. [00:20:00] I’m just thinking specifically of Bird being issued with $125 fines because San Francisco’s freaking out about all these electric scooters that are running around the streets. I think this is going to be this really interesting examination. We can also look at how are these technologies absorbed and the other technologies that will sit around that as well.

Horace : Absolutely. To some people this looks scary. When you have the reaction of cities panicking and try to regulate these vehicles, it looks like it’s really chaotic. That is true, it is chaotic. But that’s also signifying that there is a huge amount of demand and that there is huge amount of capital being applied. That means change, and change is sometimes really painful and sometimes in response to things going wrong.

So I would be actually encouraged by this reactionary movement to micro vehicles. [00:21:00] We see it a lot in disruption where the new thing is considered to be obscene or immoral or danger to life and limb. We’ve seen this over and over again. In fact, if something comes along and it’s considered safe and conforming and consistent with society today, that’s most likely implying that it’s not disruptive, but in fact sustaining. When you see collaborative efforts to introduce new things where regulators sit down with manufacturers, stakeholders and everybody’s happy, you’re not going to be creating truly world changing technology.

There will be back and forth and I’m not saying that every experiment to make new things happen is the correct way of doing things, but it is indicative of the vitality of creative destruction. That is at the heart of innovation that really changes the world. [00:22:00]

We’re impatient because the planet is under stress, and also because we just not seeing the rate of change in the existing infrastructures that are necessary to get us to the goals we need.

So, anyway, few more things to talk about as a preview here. We talk about distance a lot and so we want to think about how do you imagine the world as what are called isochrones. Isochrones are how far can you get in the certain amount of time? So if I have half an hour how far can I get? If you look at different vehicle types in the congested urban environments that 3 billion people live in, and where they’ll be 5 billion people living by 2050, then we have to really solve the problem. In the urban environment, the distances are super important in terms of how far you can get on the certain mode. [00:23:00]

We’ll spend a lot of time talking about Marchetti’s constant. We’ll introduce that conjecture that people have a fixed transportation budget in terms of time. That’s relevant to this isochronic worldview.

The other thing I want to bring up and be a little bit academic about is understanding the functions that govern our travel. One of those functions is the log normal function. We will educate a little bit about that and then dig into what that means and how we can compare modalities. Modalities are different modes of transport, so a train is a mode as is an airplane, as is walking. We will look at how these modes is represented by log normal function. It’s a bit nerdy but trust me it’ll be fun. [00:24:00]

Oliver: For the listeners, is there a really easy way to understand that?

Horace : Yeah. This is the elevator pitch. So imagine a normal function of say people’s heights. People’s heights are distributed normally, so you’re gonna divide people’s heights into bins. And now you could say let’s do a bin every 5cm. So we’ll start with people who are between 100–105cm, and then from 105–110cms, and see if you put those together you get this beautiful bell curve, right? This is the classic normal distribution or sometimes called Gaussian. This is what everybody assumes probabilities look like in transportation. It’s a beautiful shape but it really really skewed. All the trip distances all the action is at the low end. The physical universe is very logarithmic.

[00:25:00] Travel is a social activity in the sense that people travel for social reasons. Behavior itself is fundamentally rooted in it being exponentially more costly to go further. My tendency and willingness to go far is much much more than my effort I need. To go far is exponentially harder. As a result, I don’t go far. I go short distances very frequently and I’m sort of bounding myself to how far I can go. If I introduce a vehicle, my willingness to go further increases but the shape of the curve doesn’t change. I’m still much more willing to go shorter distances than to go long distances. This log normal function is fundamental human behavior; it’s the impedance function, which means it’s like the resistance force that keeps you from going randomly anywhere.

So this is a great thought experiment. [00:26:00] If you had teleportation and therefore your cost to travel anywhere in the planet is zero, then we would probably all distribute ourselves evenly everywhere and the distances that we would travel would probably be normally distributed along a median. The average distance we would travel would be halfway around the world because to New Zealand takes as much effort is for me to go to Europe. You know, I’ll just go randomly everywhere. On average, I think maybe we’ll just sort of cluster around certain continents, but it turns out because we have this energy, money and time constraints then we tend to travel short distances more frequently.

The amazing thing I have observed a bunch of modes in a bunch of places and they all follow the same log normal function. [00:27:00] I reached out to researchers at ETH in Switzerland — it’s like the MIT of Switzerland, or put it this way, it’s the university where Albert Einstein taught, so it’s pretty good — and they are actually working to write a paper on this. So the logic there is that log normal distributions, when it applies to micromobility, is really indicative of how competitive it is relative to other modes. We can do it mathematically which is why it’s really cool.

The other thing we want to talk about is looking at the past to see how it evolved into the present. This is a simple technique that historians do. If you wanted to know what the world was before the car you can go back before the car and see how it was. Can we go back to that world? Does it make sense? What were the reasons why it was the way it was? [00:28:00] There’s actually a lot of video out there nowadays on YouTube. Some people have found archival footage of before the great earthquake in San Francisco in 1905/1906 and somebody’s taking a tram down Market Street. People are all astonished at the traffic and how people move around back. This is right at the cusp of the automobile existing, but it wasn’t very popular. You see a few cars, but mostly you see wagons, pedestrians, animals and manure on Market Street, which nowadays is a car choked street.

The point is that, we’re going to go through this experiment and we’re going to understand what the world was like before the car and understand how the introduction of a new mode changed everything, and then we’re going to [00:29:00] look at what happens when you reduce yet another thing that it hasn’t happened yet. Note that we haven’t had new modalities for ground transport for over a century. This is fascinating to me because we have trains, bicycles, trams and other transit vehicles but all of these existed pre-car. Since then, we haven’t really had success with monorails, or with rockets or rocket packs. We’ve had the helicopter, but again that has been banned from city transport.

Oliver: I think the other thing that’s also really interesting to this is what the impact of that is on infrastructure. When we look at cities, for example, where tram lines ran and then where we subsequently built more infrastructure, buildings and housing. Cities are so dependent upon that the way that we’ve built our infrastructure. [00:30:00] For the last especially 50 years in a lot of Western cities, we’ve had the blunt tool of the car and everything has been built around the car. As you see the rise of these new modalities, it will be interesting to see how infrastructure and city structures change. You can already see it as happening with the rise of bikelanes. I’m interested in where people start thinking about living if all of a sudden they’re going to have access to micromobility devices that allow them to get around their neighborhood easily.

Horace : Absolutely. This is another segue into the topic of the show: what is the role of infrastructure? Should we be thinking really like city planners do about redesigning our roads or our facilities? [00:31:00] We can spend the show on the Dutch and the great transformation that occurred in Holland and Copenhagen. I’ve had the pleasure of actually visiting both of those places and speaking with people from those communities and seeing the proof of existence of an alternative future there. Yet there are limits to this. The effort in the Netherlands to embrace the bicycle began in the 1970s and it’s still an ongoing process 40 years later.

Cars are somewhat faster than roads in terms of change, but these microvehicles are virus like in terms of their ability to replicate and their ability to evolve. The question is, how can they possibly coexist with infrastructure that has taken a century to get to where it is today. [00:32:00] There’s hope and the reason for that is to look at how long it took for the infrastructures to evolve around communications and around other systems. If you look at the rate of change in aviation, especially in the early years, it went from zero to a mass market product very quickly. Communications is much easier because it’s over the air so we have a lot less official infrastructure to deal with. But there’s still quite a bit of physical infrastructure needed to get to the point where we are today with mobile computing.

We’ll also discuss modal shift, urbia, exurbia and what is the role of suburbs. How do they exist? How do they come to be? What enabled them, will that change or revert? Part of that is also autonomy and electric. The question of autonomy, and shared electric vehicles is part of three things that are talked about as a potential disruptions. One is sharing or having the vehicle no longer owned and operated by the same person, two is this idea of driverless cars, and third is electric drive itself. [00:33:00]

Tesla is positioned on electric and a lot of people are are believers in electric as a disruptive force. Perhaps it, perhaps it isn’t. I tend to think that it isn’t. But with a caveat that some of these things are disruptive but each one may be an enabler. What’s missing from this three-legged stool is this notion that micromobility might actually be the perfect shared electric intelligent vehicle.

It’s actually perfect because it’s accessible, available and rapid in terms of its proliferation. So rather than saying that they all those efforts are not disruptive, that let’s look at it from this perspective of the low end. [00:34:00] The thing that’s fastest tends to dominate, not because it’s better but because it’s faster and proliferates, right? This is the what we learn from computing. Windows beat everybody because it was faster because it was enabled by essentially commodity hardware that could be built very quickly.

The next topic I want to talk about is securitization. I think this is the question how we actually afford hundreds of millions of these things on the street and who’s going to pay for them? We think about the evolution of owned vehicle to a shared vehicle to a micro vehicle to a fleet of micro vehicles. We also explore whether these are under one company or multiple companies, but still relatively centralized control, and then fundamentally having that asset be shared back into the community.

And so we probe that evolution that transport and the means for transport are not necessarily in the hands of individuals, but nor are they in the hands of corporations. [00:35:00] This is an interesting potential and I think the way that can be realized is through this innovation of tokenization. Something to do securitizing the asset base through a encrypted token. We will get into this because it also enables multi-modality and it enables transitions. We will also apply that to the goods business which is going through this transition earlier than the personal transportation business.

I think we have a lot more to say but I think for now we should probably just let you breathe a little bit. We have a kind of a to-do list. We have a list of these topics we want to cover because their terms of art or language then we can agree that this is the language we use. You can call them theories, you can call them conjectures, but we need to put them out there and then we’re also want to have the audience engage through questions. We’re going to put out there hashtag on Twitter the way I’ve done in The Critical Path, so we want to get inbound questions and we I do Q&A as people object violently to what we say, so I’d love to have the debate.

So welcome to MicroMobility. [00:36:00]