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Claude Eguienta of Mimo DeFi | Mimo Podcast #01

Listen to Episode $001 Now »

For Mimo’s inaugural Podcast episode, we decided to keep it in the family and dive into the mind of our CEO, Claude Eguienta.

In this episode, we learn about what it’s like to work at Mimo, how Claude manages multiple teams & their respective growth, the tech behind Mimo, issuance protocols and what the future holds for stablecoins, and much more.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Nick Calabro:
Hello all, and welcome to the Mimo DeFi Podcast. The number one crypto app that lets you use your crypto without selling it. Today, we have a very special guest CEO of Mimo DeFi, Claude. Claude, how you doing today?

Claude Eguienta:
I’m doing great. How you doing?

Nick Calabro:
I am living the dream, as always. So I am very excited to get into a lot of things with you. Mimo is a very dense and important protocol here that we have, all in a very positive light in the DeFi ecosystem system overall. So I’m going to dive straight into it, because I feel like we’re going to have a lot to go over here. So Claude, tell me your elevator pitch. What is Mimo DeFi?

Claude Eguienta:
Mimo simply helps you solve a problem that has been plaguing a lot of people who have been trying to get into crypto. It is, how do I get value from my assets, how do I get liquidity from my assets, without having to sell them? You have Eth, you have Bitcoin, prices go up, go down, prices fluctuate. You want to buy a new car? The intuitive thing would be, all right, I bought it at 1000, it’s now 3000, I’m going to use my gain to sell it and essentially buy my new car. Well, with Mimo, you can do something else. You can simply put your money in a vault, put your Eth in a vault and mint a stable coin for this, and this stable coin, you can use to go buy your car.

Claude Eguienta:
So now what happened, it sounds a bit weird, right? You have a stable coin, I introducing the new terms here, but the thing is pretty simple, it is give us, or give the protocol, your volatile assets, and the protocol gives you some nonvolatile assets. What happens when the price goes up? The price goes up, you have your thing that was 1000 that is now 3000, you are still exposed to it because you are still the only person that can have access to these Eth in your vault, but you only have that little debt that you contracted to the protocol to pay back. So essentially it’s the same thing you do when you go to the bank and use your house as a collateral for buying a new car. Well, instead of your house is your Ethereum or your Bitcoin or any other collateral that we use.

Claude Eguienta:
Mimo is a simple protocol that allows you to use the, I mean, have the best value outside of your assets without ever having to sell them. Unless of course you get liquidated. We can get into that a little bit later.

Nick Calabro:
I’m sure we certainly will.

Claude Eguienta:
What’s interesting about Mimo, because you might have heard this story before, [Maker DL 00:02:45] also does it, it’s that Mimo issues US double coin in Europe, and we do believe that there was really a lacking piece in the crypto ecosystem before we arrived, that it was such that you could only exit the volatility of crypto assets by going into dollar. It was like you were in the middle of the pandemic, you had your crypto assets, everything was moving up and down, and if you were a little bit shaky on the foundations of anything, you were, okay, let’s just go to stable. What you would do is go to USDC, USDT, and essentially go back to the dollar. You had no option. It was only dollar.

Claude Eguienta:
Now, what if you’re European and the dollar does not really correspond to whatever you’re using every day? Or what if even you are American and you don’t want to bet on your own currency for going back to stable. Gold tokens were not really big and dollar has been the only thing trading properly on every chain. So we wanted to provide a proper alternative to the dollar, to really the property centralized dollar, that things like [di 00:03:53] are, and the issue with doing so is that if you want to do a Euro stable coin, well, you have negative interest rates in Europe so the normal business model of a stable coin can’t apply. Well, a DeFi platform can work here. And that’s, that’s really what Mimo is. Mimo is a DeFi platform that allows that allows people to mint these stable coins that can be then be used by everybody to really foster a proper crypto Euro ecosystem.

Nick Calabro:
Out of everything that you just said, it sounds like there are two main differentiators at play here. Yes, there are other protocols that are doing similar types of token issuance. Yes, there are other stable coins. But there are not any of these protocols out there that are doing it in such a way where the stable coin pegged to the Euro is decentralized. Is that correct? I believe that this is one of the main pillars of Mimo being fully decentralized as far as the stable coins are concerned, and then at the same time also pegging them to assets that are not as popular in DeFi right now.

Claude Eguienta:
Yeah, this is really the problem we’re trying to solve when we came into play.

Nick Calabro:
How did that happen? I feel like there’s an origin story there a little bit. What happened that made you say, this was a major problem, let me fix this?

Claude Eguienta:
Well, it won’t sound as sexy as you might hope, unfortunately.

Nick Calabro:
I’ve seen you turn some bland sentences pretty sexy, so I’m sure… Give it a shot.

Claude Eguienta:
It is really just data. The origin of Mimo is that before being Mimo, Mimo was TenX, and TenX had a lot of users in Europe and a lot of community members. What we could see as a really resounding ask was a proper Euro stable coin. Proper Euro stable coin, maybe be proper yield after Euro, Euro based yield instead of just a dollar or Eth based yield, and this thing was asked by a lot of people. For those who don’t remember TenX was a company that built the first card to spend your Bitcoin. So really the whole play was that TenX wanted to be the bridge between crypto and fiat, not on the fiat to crypto, but on the crypto to fiat, they were only to be a proper bridge instead of going to an exchange and selling your crypto and then having it back sent to your bank account, and then having it spent with your card, it was really a proper shortcut of all these steps.

Claude Eguienta:
What Mimo intends to do today is to go on the other side, is really the bridge between your fiat to your crypto by way of stable coin. We realized that, well, the crypto to fiat has been kind of solved by a lot of companies, and when I joined TenX as a CEO, I realized that, well, we have a lot more demand for a proper product that interfaces with a Euro stable coin than for a crypto card. Because other companies had addressed this need in a way that users liked a lot, so we thought, okay, well, let’s jump on this one.

Claude Eguienta:
We had a lot of things to build. You cannot just build a Euro table coin like that, again, because of the negative interest rate. So we’re like, okay, you want a Euro stable coin and you want yield on Euro, what do you have to start with? The issuance of the token. How do you issue the token? Well, maybe with some collateral. How do you find this collateral? Well, let users deposit the collateral. Mimo was born.

Nick Calabro:
I love it. So, and this is actually something that makes you very unique because even in the previous organization, and now Mimo, in both times you care about the consumer and how they’re actually spending their money. I mean, everyone else is just like, all right, here’s our DeFi, here’s our farming and everything, and then it ends like, all right, you want to take it out, and then we don’t want to have anything else to do with you. But by going for the Euro, for actually doing the transactions live and spending your Bitcoin, it’s a little bit opposite of how Mimo handles it, because you’re obviously spending it instead of locking it up. But everything that you’re doing, was that intentional, that you always just seem to care about how people are actually spending their money?

Claude Eguienta:
I’ve been always, in my own entire career, I’ve worked more with consumer product. I was in gaming industry before even mobile gaming. I was working in Japanese company called CyberAgent, where we made extremely popular games for dozens of millions of people and we had a lot of money transacting that always really passionated me to see all those things moving. Really, focus on the consumer was big.

Claude Eguienta:
Then I was at Telcoin, where I had to learn more of a B2B side. Telcoin is real B2B2C play, you focus on the Telcoin first and on the consumer, but the consumer was never too far from the equation, because then if you forget the consumer, you can’t sell to your partner because your consumer is their consumer.

Claude Eguienta:
Again, I’ve been consumer focused for quite a while, and there at TenX, TenX was really a consumer brand, so the core design of the product was really, how do we integrate the consumer into that? The consumer was really at the core of the thing. It was not, we make a platform and then try to bring the consumer, it was, we see what the consumer wants and then we build a platform that will, little by little, be all the way close to the consumer.

Claude Eguienta:
We know that, for example, today Mimo cannot reach a consumer. Today, Mimo is not exactly a consumer platform. It is for people in the DeFi world that already have some ETh already have some Bitcoin and want to enjoy their assets better. But it is okay. WE know that things are built step by step, and even though we have a consumer vision and a consumer goal, it’s okay, you need to know that every part of your product will have a different vision, a different view, a different target market, that will little by little expand to the consumer, what some people call the mass adoption, what we just call people.

Nick Calabro:
It’s really community. So how do you feel about now running a company that’s more community driven than consumer driven?

Claude Eguienta:
To be frank, it does not feel that different. Because when at Telcoin, we did feel like we’re really taking a lot of input from the community and our community were for a lot of people the type of people that would be consumers of the product once it is there, and then the product came there and we had a good translation of community members to users.

Claude Eguienta:
We expect something really similar with Mimo, because the thing is that your consumer does not exist. The end consumer, really the one that will be the mass market, is not there yet at Mimo because we are still at a certain development state of our product where what we could call a consumer today is more of a user of the DeFi platform, and these people are really one to one to the community members. So even you are community in certain way, but you are actually more user driven, which is the same thing as being consumer driven, so it is always the same thing. You have people who are using what you do, and they have a certain target, they have certain goals, they have certain problems. You listen to them, you try to use a little bit of foresight to see what they will want when you build that feature, and you try to meet them at a place that solves their needs.

Claude Eguienta:
I really like that, to be honest. I think at Mimo, we have a very solid team that does understand where our consumers are going, and it’s one thing to think about where consumers are going, it’s another thing to know what you want to do as a company. But finding good way to match the two in a way that people still understand that the company is moving forward. You don’t want to appear still because you work in the background for the next step, but you also don’t want to only focus on the short term. Having a type of team that can work on two things at the same time is really difficult to build. I’m pretty happy. I feel like we have that.

Nick Calabro:
I love it. So then to kind of expand on that a little bit, you’ve run a few different organizations, what ultimately is it like being CEO at Mimo? I mean, I also want to get a little bit into the culture and really what it is that you’re, are maybe not what you’re doing day to day, but I mean, I’m very interested in seeing how you’re spearheading this and handling the growth.

Claude Eguienta:
That’s an interesting question, especially in this specific context, because you work there, right?

Nick Calabro:
Absolutely.

Claude Eguienta:
We’ll pretend that you don’t work here for now. We will get back to this a little bit later. Bu being a CEO at Mimo, before I tell you exactly how it is, I have to remind everybody who is listening that Mimo is more of a distributed company. Everybody’s operating in a work from home setting, and this started before pandemic forced that. I mean, even though Mimo was built in the middle of the pandemic, most of the people working for Mimo are actually okay with the work from home setting. There was, I would say, a little bit of a natural process that made it such that people who are not really okay with working from home and who prefer an office setting, left the company or thing like that. So with time we ended up with a proper remote company because the culture of the company had to be remote.

Claude Eguienta:
I mean, I’m based in Dubai, some of the execs are based in Dubai, we have other execs based in Singapore. We have people based in Western Europe. We even have people based on the American continent, people in Canada and all that. It is, as a CEO naturally, I would say, challenging to deal with people in all these different time zones.

Claude Eguienta:
What is the day to day life? I mean, how do I start my day? First thing I do when I wake up… I mean, you ask me how I spend my day, I’ll tell you how I spend my day.

Nick Calabro:
Please.

Claude Eguienta:
I wake up, I just take a notepad and write what I think I should do for the day, what I think matters, what I think I should do, and this and that. Then I recoup this with whatever I wrote the day before to make sure I have achieved and, whoops, I drop that one and this and that, and those things in that specific order, make me feel like I still stay in control of my day and I don’t forget stuff that I had to do.

Claude Eguienta:
After that, check up with the team, make sure that I didn’t receive messages during the night, send messages to those who are going to sleep before… Because you need to pay attention all the time. If I’m here in the US then when I start my day, guys in Singapore’s going to sleep soon so like, guys, before you go, this, this, and that. We just make sure everybody knows that I’ve heard them and that they have some form of answer for me, or I can know that they know what I need them to know at that moment.

Claude Eguienta:
Because it’s not about tasks, it’s more about information. The way I tend to work is not by giving people task or by giving them stuff to do, is by discussing with them and having them convinced that there is something to do based on the information that I’m giving them. Look, this thing is happening, that thing is happening, looks like really that should happen. We should do this. And then, depending on your specialty, you go and you do this, you go and you do that. And everybody organizes themselves.

Nick Calabro:
It almost operates like a DAO.

Claude Eguienta:
There’s a reason why we’re like that. It’s important to me, as a CEO of a company, especially on the blockchain, you want to treat your staff as contributors. The whole vertical organization does not really exist in crypto unless maybe you’re working on the type one exchanges are really like, okay, there’s a big buzz and then there’s this and then there’s that. Most crypto companies we talk to, and you know a lot of them, operate more on a rather flat structure, and it’s not only flat because it sounds like it, it’s also flat because at the end of the day everybody mints tokens and everybody tries to work on an equal footing, everybody can propose [inaudible 00:16:07] protocols.

Claude Eguienta:
This is the way the products are naturally built, so the companies tend to follow the type of structure, and so as a CEO you tend to become more of a person that makes sure nobody’s starving for information and you become a form of a salesman. You sell problems to other people in your organization to make sure that they agree with the problem, they agree on a certain type of solution and then they can go for it. So that’s the way I spend my days.

Nick Calabro:
I love it. I have a very good friend who, at one point, I don’t know if it was your video or maybe your image on the site, or something, and she said to me, “How does Claude do it? He seems like he’s getting pulled in a million different directions.” And I was like, I don’t even know what got them that idea, and she was just like, “I don’t know. He just looks really, really busy.” And it’s so on brand because, especially in DeFi, you have the community, you have product, you have us, the marketing team and everything, you must be getting pulled in a ton of different directions.

Nick Calabro:
Obviously they all have to balance out, but how do you know which one to dive into more this week? Like maybe this week I got to spend all my time on product, next week, we’re at the conference right now, so maybe you got to be doing all marketing this week. How do you divvy that up and keep it balanced?

Claude Eguienta:
That’s a pretty good question. To be hones, I am not sure I’ve found a solution to that. I’m still looking.

Nick Calabro:
[crosstalk 00:17:34] the age old question to figure this out.

Claude Eguienta:
To be frank, it starts with, I mean, in my opinion, again, it starts with one very, very key thing, I’m a strong believer in the team, in the hiring. So I only hire people who are better than me at whatever they’re doing. My immediate team is very good at what they’re doing, which means that I don’t need to be pulled in that much, because if you’re working with me and you’re next to me as a C level, you’re very likely better than me at what you’re doing, so you will bring me in for the decision. You don’t need to bring me in for everything you’re doing. I’m here to bring you some information, for sure. I’m here to help, because I’m more of a, I would say, the polymath type, let’s say I’m decent at many things instead of just being a full expert type.

Claude Eguienta:
I’m an engineer. I’m a dev before [inaudible 00:18:28]. But let’s say curious enough and old enough to have developed some little bit of proficiency in many areas, thanks to, again, being with people like that. Because when you spend your day with people who are very good at what they’re doing well, luckily you become somewhat decent and you can help them at their job. So I’m more of a helper, so those people help me, but they also know that I’m very busy. So for me to help them, before they come and ask for help, they think a lot.

Claude Eguienta:
They also talk to each other. Because again, they know that my hiring strategy is based on hiring people that are better than me, so they know that if they need an answer in finance, well you go talk to Sven, he will know better than me, Claude. So they can talk to each other. They just make sure I still have visibility on everything, and because I have visibility and I have the vision of the company, and still, I do understand what everybody’s doing, because I watch everything, but I don’t peek over people’s shoulders because they just give me a window into their work.

Claude Eguienta:
I have it at really pretty easy. It’s all about having the right team. So I do work 14 to 16 hours a day, but it doesn’t feel like life is hard because it’s a lot of work with extremely good people and I’m more here as a helper, so I’m pulled in different directions, but again there’s always a synergy. The engineers and the product people, I make sure that we have conversation, they work together. When you want to have a product in marketing, again, we have a couple talks together here and there, but in general they know themselves well enough so then they can work together without having to pull me every time. So that’s an advantage.

Claude Eguienta:
Make sure that first you hire good people. Second, they know that they’re all good. Because if everybody’s good, but they don’t know that they can rely on the others you are getting nowhere. But if everybody knows that, damn, those guys I’m working with pretty good and maybe we can get a lot of stuff done without having to pull a CEO every time, so instead of working in a star structure that everybody goes towards me, it’s more of a… It looks chaotic from the outside, but it does work very well.

Nick Calabro:
It’s a tough thing to balance, but it’s critical to keep that DAO like structure within the inside, keeping everything organic, and it really is. I mean, no DAO is going to have someone looking over their shoulders. If you operated like that, I don’t think I would’ve been…. It would’ve been a dreadful role from the very beginning.

Nick Calabro:
Obviously you are very DAO like in your management style even, and it’s actually interesting because it’s probably, as we’re transitioning into this new world, it’s almost like changing our minds a little bit and how we’re operating and how we’re actually just seeing everything.

Claude Eguienta:
There is one thing. I mean, what you mentioned, being DAO like, I mean, why do we become DAO like? It’s because these people like us that are building the companies, we’re just building what we like. We’re finding the structures that are matching the products and the communities and the problems we’re solving. It turns out that the DAO type of structure works for us. I mean, we’re not trying to shoehorn DAO into us, DAO is born from us. That’s just how it works.

Nick Calabro:
It’s very interesting. I kind of want to just dive a little bit deeper into this for a second, because I’m fascinated now. But we heard from the head of growth over at Balancer that two of the most important things for a community would be inclusivity and accountability, but unlike a career, there is no consequence, is there, in a DAO?

Claude Eguienta:
I do think that there is a consequence, actually. Because think about it. You have your name on GitHub. You have all these stars on your repositories. You have this name on Twitter. And you come and contribute for project like Balancer, and if you say publicly on the forums, “Guys, I’m taking this task, I’m going to get it done. You guys can trust me,” but you don’t deliver on it and you do this once and twice, and three times, and then people start to believe “This guy is not really reliable.” Accountability is built in the internet persona that you build.

Nick Calabro:
So reputation does fall into that accountability [crosstalk 00:22:40].

Claude Eguienta:
For sure. I do believe so. Again, I mean, we’re not yet at Mimo at this stage where our community members are becoming contributors to the protocol. Just a little bit. They do submit some vote, but we are still the ones doing the code. Hopefully we can have more people interested into helping with the code and then we can go with that and have some bounties and all that. This is something we do intend to do. And as somebody who’s worked a lot in open source before, I would be thrilled. So I will naturally steer the development of the company towards in this direction. But is also a [principles 00:23:16] programmer, so it’ll be pretty cool.

Claude Eguienta:
Fareed, our mobile lead right now, is also a principles programmer. Today, still contributing to libraries like some React Native libraries and all that. So again, we’re pretty lucky. We have people who love open source and this model we’re talking about has been working for open source for quite a while.

Claude Eguienta:
Essentially, crypto companies are adapting the open source development model into something that is a little bit more interesting from a financial point of view. Instead of just having issues and volunteers that come and code or large organizations that divide a budget of developers to go and solve issues on the principals project, you have companies that use their own tokens or maybe their Eth reserves, or whatever, to pay the community to develop on their protocol.

Claude Eguienta:
That’s very close to what the open source has been. To me, it is not as revolutionary as some people would say. The real revolution was the Linux Colonel and we’re just a second step in that revolution. But it is revolutionary from, let’s say, financial industry perspective. It just never happened. And we are just the first wave making that much money with that.

Nick Calabro:
It is fascinating that software really had this distributed model figured out already. Git is nothing than just, or actually DeFi, or crypto, blockchain, is just Git for life, anyway.

Claude Eguienta:
That’s an interesting way to put it, but yeah, I mean, we are [crosstalk 00:24:54].

Nick Calabro:
Git was trying to be DeFi and they just weren’t quite there yet.

Claude Eguienta:
Look the way the Colonel was developed. That one guy starting with his code and then bringing some other contributors and then-

Nick Calabro:
You’re talking Linus?

Claude Eguienta:
Yeah. And then eventually he even built Git, the same guy who brought us Linux [crosstalk 00:25:15].

Nick Calabro:
Built Git, was using Git while building Git to track his project called Git.

Claude Eguienta:
Really, Linux, to me, is one of the figures. Again, I don’t want to be sidetracked into our heroes and all that, but again, I do believe that it is important to be happy about the model that we’re all using as crypto companies and all that, and to understand that the value of distributed software development. I mean, software development in the distributed manner, not necessarily building distributed software, even though this is what we’re doing, but this comes from the software industry, and that’s somebody who’s been in software since I’m like 16 year old. Is just for me, it’s just, yeah, we’re just doing software. People go like, “You run a distributed company. It must be so hard,” and all that. I’m like, “Have you ever seen how an open source project runs? Those things been running for decades.”

Claude Eguienta:
We have a lot of best practices to apply, we don’t even have to call management consultants, we just have to look at how the Colonel is doing it. There is a proven track record of things that work.

Nick Calabro:
Right. I love it. So, let me take a step back, because you’ve said one line maybe about a dozen times so far this episode, but that you love hiring people who are smarter than you at one thing, maybe not smarter than you, but doing whatever they’re doing better than how you would do it. How are you finding these people? Where are they?

Claude Eguienta:
Well, I’m pretty lucky. You take the elevator and then you meet your next head of growth. I don’t know. I mean, I’m kidding. But it’s pretty much that. There is something that is rather interesting, is that when you’re in that mindset of, I need to hire people who are better than me at what they’re doing, but you still try to be good at everything, or at least at a lot of things, well, you end up meeting people who can connect with you at a professional level, because they understand that you understand what they’re going through.

Claude Eguienta:
You meet somebody like, “This guy actually understands what I’m going through,” and I’m like “But you are better than me at this. Maybe you can work with me, because I need somebody who’s better than me.” And then they feel trusted from the beginning, and then you can have a solid work relationship.

Claude Eguienta:
It is just that I believe that everybody meets people who are better than them in whatever they’re doing every day. The only difference with me is that I let those people understand that it matters to me.

Nick Calabro:
Yeah, no, I like it a lot. So it’s ultimately… And plus, I mean, doing this stuff, and a lot of the kimono is down on a lot of DeFi stuff, so especially now, having these conversations and stuff like that, people understand how we work a little bit more now. I think it’s going to really open up some of what we’re up to here. Well, Claude, what am I forgetting?

Claude Eguienta:
Well, there’s a little thing. I mean, it’s a company. I think there’s one thing we’re forgetting. Tell me what it is to work at Mimo.

Nick Calabro:
Oh man, where do I begin? Do we have another hour for this episode here? No. Ultimately I found you on Hacker News. It was a very interesting post that you had there. I was immediately intrigued. It was technically still called TenX at the time. The site was beautiful. I knew that it was very consumer driven. It was like a card. Everyone loves taking pictures of their cards and showing pictures of, “I just bought Wendy’s with my crypto.” It was so fascinating. And even at the time, I wasn’t the most… I wasn’t super deep into DeFi. I definitely was a holder of Bitcoin at that time, as far as DeFi was concerned much less sophistication there. And I’ll tell you, I absolutely felt… At the time, I didn’t know what it would’ve meant to be DAO like, but I felt the DAO like in this.

Nick Calabro:
It was very organic as far as what was going on and who doing what. I’ll tell you, even the marketing department, I feel like, is very good at doing Exactly what you’re saying. If everyone knows that everyone else is good, as you were saying that I was just nodding my head like crazy, because it’s crazy how organic it is when everyone just has a good head on their shoulders and they know what they’re they’re doing.

Nick Calabro:
I would say the only thing, if I had one complaint about working at Mimo, it’s that since everyone is overseas, that when we do the company calls, I’m getting up at 4:00 AM, which isn’t too bad. I mean, I have to get up a little early anyway. But I mean, those things are always very interesting.

Nick Calabro:
What an eclectic group of people over here at Mimo. An amazing staff, a lot of different… I do all the networking that I can inside the group, even considering being so far away, but overall working at Mimo has just been incredible as far as the products that are coming and everything as well. I think a lot of people probably, unfortunately, don’t have a lot of passion for what they’re working on. There’s probably a ton of people who are just stuck in a job and just chugging through their career. But what we’re building here is just such a foundational, important thing that is going to probably outlive up us. I mean, we see what’s happening with basically Mimo’s competitors and other stable coins out there and how unsound so much of the DeFi world is.

Nick Calabro:
So to know that we’re on the right side of things, it doesn’t only make… It just makes doing the job so much more fulfilling, because I’m confident that when this ends we’re going to be on the right side of things. And so right there, that piece alone is… Because or else you’re just working on something that’s just not going to last and it’s not going to… I don’t even care about the fulfillment at that point, it’s like, when you were looking back, were you on the right side of things? So it really does check a lot of those boxes for me. Thank you for asking. It’s really good stuff, ultimately, though.

Claude Eguienta:
That’s good. I just want to shout out to your manager, who makes it possible for you to work from New York, sometimes, from the team calls at 4:00 AM.

Nick Calabro:
Absolutely.

Claude Eguienta:
Thank you very much. I think somebody like him makes it easy to be in my position, because he understands what it is to work with distributed team. He understands what it is to have specialists who are very good, but he also understands what it is to have specialists take on some generalist tasks. For example, you would take somebody like Stephan or somebody like Thomas, that we have on the community, and yes, he is the person that will help these people outgrow their original role. He did this at Telcoin before and he’s going to do it at Mimo again.

Claude Eguienta:
You start with one job and you grow with your job being more large and you grow into somebody that can take maybe a totally different position. And that’s something that is facilitated by having somebody like [Yas 00:32:03] working with you. And this is something that I know I want to do with my contributor and my direct contributors, the C levels at my levels at the company, and I’m glad to see that other managers, like [inaudible 00:32:14] are able to do that. The fact that you’re saying that you’re happy and you have a trust in your teammates makes me understand that he’s done a great job there. I’m pretty happy.

Nick Calabro:
One thing that I definitely do appreciate what you’re saying is that he absolutely trusts my judgment. And if my judgment wasn’t trusted and I had to be blocked doing… I would rather do something wrong and then we figure out what to do better next time, than just be blocked immediately. It’s even happening. I mean, it’s happening right now in the Mimo team, where there’s some things that I would maybe do a little bit differently, but that doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t go out and try it that way, because I’ve been wrong before.

Claude Eguienta:
Everybody has.

Nick Calabro:
I’m certainly not going to block any type of production that way. But of course then we just do an analysis after, see did it work or did it not work, and then assess from there, and so Yas has, from day one, just been very, very cool with… We don’t know exactly… This industry is so new, fine, let’s try it, and then we’ll just decide after if we’re going to do it again or not.

Claude Eguienta:
Being data driven this way, sometimes knowing that you don’t know and giving it a try, but make sure that you learn whatever happened, is something that all of our guys are actually pretty good with.

Claude Eguienta:
Just so you know, I do know when you mention something. So Yas would be transparent and say like, “Nick is suggesting that,” and this is something that Bud will also do and this and that, so what it creates is that they don’t only tell that to me, they tell that to the entire team. It makes it that in such a way that, again, the whole group of contributors tend to know that everybody in the company is pretty good, because we all know that idea is flowing from the lead directly to the core, and then it makes the leads look pretty big, and then we realize, well, actually it’s not a tree, it’s a whole flat thing that is pretty cool. So it’s-

Nick Calabro:
It falls back on you, because I know that everyone in the company is going to be solid or else they wouldn’t have made it through you.

Claude Eguienta:
Exactly. I’m trying to make sure everybody knows we got good standards. [crosstalk 00:34:18]. What you say is actually very important to me. I want everybody to know that I only hire people who are better than me, and I want this to be replicated by the people who I work with, so then at the end of the day, you must believe that if I’m at this position, well, it must mean that I’m good and the person next to me must be pretty good.

Claude Eguienta:
Once you have this trust, when you work remote, it’s actually pretty easy. You don’t need to go and walk and look what people say and walk and look on people’s computers and stuff like that, you trust that they’re doing a good job. And when things are not going great, you know that it’s not because somebody’s not doing their job, it’s because things are hard, and then you just suggest solution and you talk to people, and those people will listen to you because they know you’re good. And all those things work [crosstalk 00:35:01].

Nick Calabro:
It’s a very loop that just gets created and then snowballs on itself.

Claude Eguienta:
At least that’s what we’re trying to do.

Nick Calabro:
I think it’s working.

Claude Eguienta:
That’s what Mimo… And hopefully this becomes a good ad for people to come and work with us.

Nick Calabro:
Absolutely. Send over some maps.

Claude Eguienta:
So that’s good.

Nick Calabro:
Very cool. Well, cool. I think, I mean, we definitely went over a lot of stuff here and I feel like we’re going to have to have a part three, four, and even five, at some point, but anything else that you want to leave us with? Anything that I I missed here?

Claude Eguienta:
Well, yeah, if you want to work with us, if what we just talked about sounds good to you, please come, send tech@mimo.captiol if you’re an engineer or anything related to tech or just claude@mimo.capital if you want to work there. Anything. Or you will see me every month religiously on Hacker News, posting on who’s hiring. So that’s the thing. So thank you very much. And please, please, shoot out, join the community, join the Telegram.

Nick Calabro:
Yep, absolutely. You’re floating around in the Telegram at some point sometimes as well, so yeah, very cool. All right, so that’s how we find you and everything. No Twitter or anything like that, right, for you?

Claude Eguienta:
I don’t use Twitter that much. I use it to consume news more. I’m more of a Telegram person.

Nick Calabro:
Gotcha.

Claude Eguienta:
This is really my thing. I’m a Telegram guy.

Nick Calabro:
Very cool. Well, Claude, thank you so so much. This was a fantastic episode. As always, I am NickCalabs on Twitter, if you want to get over there and send me an application, I’ll get it to the right people for you.

Nick Calabro:
Thank you everyone for listening to the Mimo DeFi podcast. Of course, as always, hope you enjoyed it. Do not forget to subscribe, leave us a five star review if you found it useful, and if you did, of course, be sure to check out mimo.capital to open up a vault and access the world of DeFi.

Nick Calabro:
Claude, thank you very much once more.

Claude Eguienta:
Thank you.

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