“Bobby Deerfield”
An Interview with Niia
Rubin Carter “Hurricane” could have been the middleweight champion of the world and “could take a man out with just one punch / but he never did like to talk about it all that much,” sings Bob Dylan in his 1976 hit “Hurricane”. In the video for her new single “Alfa Romeo”, American singer, musician and songwriter Niia performs the role of a martial arts fighter who’s just as powerful and effective as Dylan’s Hurricane when it comes to throwing a knockout punch.
Master magician John Mulholland could roll five coins simultaneously across his fingers. He had invented a sleight, a hidden movement of the hands to make objects disappear and reappear. Niia knows how to electrify her audience too by using the art of illusion and the tricks of a magician. Larger actions hide smaller actions. In her new album “Bobby Deerfield”, released on 23 June 2023 and titled after an ill-fated Al Pacino 1977 movie of the same name, she uses the plot of the film as a smokescreen to tell us a different story. Her story revolves around her father, how to heal old wounds and carry on with your life despite old grievances. And we, as listeners, are mesmerized.
On Friday 30 June Niia and I shared a long conversation about her work. She’s an expert in astrology, I’m not. Whether or not that particular day had any astrological connotation I don’t know. All I can say is that I really enjoyed our conversation.
Niia, I’ve been following your career for a while now and I really enjoyed your new album. I even did my homework and watched the film “Bobby Deerfield” before talking to you.
My God. What did you think? Terrible, uh?
What I think is that it’s a bit dated now. There’s a few scenes I could see how they might have inspired you. I thought the slightly deranged lady Al Pacino falls in love with at the end was more credible than him in a way.
Totally, totally.
Let’s talk about your music. Your albums, they slowly grow on you. They are a sublime exercise in minimalism. Sometimes the music or the instrument part is just hinted at, as if we as listeners had to imagine the rest of its development.
I think simplicity is very hard to achieve. Now we have so many tools to create music, so many instruments and all these recording devices that you can get a little carried away. I think sometimes stripping things back is really important, but also still having a full sound. This is where film music and film scores really inspire me because they take you from something really small and intimate into something really loudish and grand.
The instrumental track, “Bobby Deerfield”, is glorious. A sort of reminder of the water/meditation songs you did on a previous album of yours. Is there a connection between the two things?
That album you’re talking about was my ambient record called “Mouthful of Salt” and I’ve released it with Offair, which is a label. I think, to your point, creating music where there isn’t vocals on it is just as rewarding for me as a musician. I can play piano, I can compose music but when I made that record there wasn’t as much vocal on songs. It was about creating an experience, a mood, a tone where you can really immerse yourself in it and not be distracted by lyrics or someone singing. And for “Bobby Deerfield” I really wanted to have at least one track where I’m not singing, where you can really dial in, almost like a trailer for the movie I’d write a soundtrack for. And, yeah, I think it’s cool not to sing on everything. Forget that I’m a singer. It’s nice to create something that’s all about the music.
In the closer, “The Moon Is a Beautiful Lonely Woman”, I hear a xylophone and it gives me that old time jazz vibe. I can feel the history of music in your songs, the origins of jazz, reminiscences of old classics, traditional standards. I particularly like the way you blend them with modern technology and modern styles in order to convey a message that’s relevant today.
A hundred per cent! I’m so happy you said that, that’s exactly what I’m trying to do. I grew up on those old standards but I don’t live back then, I live in 2023 now. I’m obsessed with astrology just like everybody else now. You’ve got to modernize stuff or make it your own. I don’t want to just emulate my favorite singers from the past. Even with the lyrics. I know I’m swearing, I’m saying some bad words. It makes it all feel a bit fresher, or contemporary. It’s definitely one of my goals to kinda remind you of the past but feel present and look towards the future in a way.
I think that’s the most fascinating part of your music. I grew up listening to jazz but I can feel the new vibe in your music. It’s modern, it’s the new language, the new idiom.
It’s interesting to see who relates to it. You know, sometimes — and that’s why I’m really grateful that my fans are so mixed age — sometimes I have older fans and they like the nostalgia, their era of music, and then I have these younger kids because they really like the lyrics, or something else. Or, they ask “what’s that instrument?”. “Well, that’s a xylophone”. But to them it’s a crazy new sound. I do really believe that the goal of being an artist is educating, trying to be fresh but protecting what’s important about music and where it’s come from and to make it your own. So thank you for your question, it means a lot to me. Joni Mitchell was a big influence for this new album of mine. It’s all about the lyrics.
Interesting. She did a jazz album with Charles Mingus once. She was trying to create a bridge between different genres.
Yes, definitely. You know, I love jazz, I love R&B, soul music, but I was really a little tired of it for a while. The ambient record was totally a new world, creating something totally different and I really enjoyed that. And so I said I wanna try to learn something else, inject some rock, some folk, even some stuff you wouldn’t think of me like electric guitar.
I enjoyed the electric guitar solo, the one at the end of “Alfa Romeo”. And there’s more in other tracks.
Yeah. That’s the sound you’d never think I would want to use. And still now I wonder “do I like it? I don’t know”.
I do.
But it’s fun to grow. As an artist you have to take risks. And that’s where the Joni Mitchell repertoire and rock bands are very influential this time. In addition to bringing the jazz and the things that I love, always, trying to create something new and fresh was the goal here.
I remember not this time but a few years ago you did something like a Christmas album. I love gospel and I love listening to preachers. Have you ever thought of doing some gospel?
Of course. It’s funny you said that because I was actually at the Blue Note in New York the other night, the jazz club. My friend was playing and he had a woman come up and she sang this insane gospel song. And I said “I’ve got to go back to church”. Gospel’s got some of the best voices and some of the best singers in the world. I would love that, I think it’s just hard. I think that would be my next goal. And I’ve got to get focused and learn Italian once and for all! Give me one year!
Do you know what “niia” means in Italian for the older generation?
No, what?
It means “military service”, the “draft”.
That’s funny. It means “military service” or it is one?
When I was young it was compulsory. We all had to do one year in the army. And that period, the “draft” was called “naja” (pronounced as “niia” in Italian).
I love it, so dramatic!
So if you talk to older people and say “hi, I’m Niia” they might not have good memories of that period.
A fun fact.
Both your new single “Alfa Romeo” and the film “Boby Deerfield” contain memories of the protagonists’ father and their family. At the end of the song’s video there’s the father that says things about you being like a switchblade or a knife or a thorn on his side. And there’s something about the father figure in the film. Is there anything you want to say about this?
I’ll give you the origin story. Al Pacino, right? We all love Al Pacino. As Italian-American he is kind of our father, right? I thought I knew every movie he was in. And then I met him at a screening.
Let me get this straight. You met him in person?
Yes, him. Al Pacino.
In the flesh? You could touch him?
It was real and I was freaking out. And it was like, “my mom’s from Italy, and we’re obsessed with you, we watched The Godfather so many times”. You know, he’s our guy! And he’s so cool and he said ”Ok, we’re going to watch my favorite movie I was in: Bobby Deerfield.” And I thought, “what the fuck is that? What movie is that? I’ve never even heard of it”. And then we watch it, and it’s terrible. I mean, it’s not terrible but it’s not a classic Al Pacino movie. After the film he just started talking about why he was so devastated that this movie didn’t go very far. They thought it was going to ruin his career. He thought it was this awesome film, that he would be taken seriously now. And for where I was in my life I just kept thinking about this movie after I left, and what he was saying and how he was heart-broken. And I realized where I was in my life. I thought I was playing it a little safe. Was I going to make another “La Bella Vita” again? What am I going to do next? And then I realized I really need to make my “Bobby Deerfield” which could be a disaster and might be really misunderstood but something I need to do for myself. And while I was doing it Bobby Deerfield the character related to me a lot, he was this dramatic and brooding character who didn’t give a shit about other people, kind of where I was a little bit in my life. Just a little bit. And I started to realize, wow, I think Bobby Deerfield is a sort of metaphor for my dad. The obstacles and the patterns in our lives where we don’t want to end up. And I love my father, Italian is all around the family but I was starting to feel that I was growing into some bad habits that he has and I don’t want for myself. You know, the saying “I am my father’s daughter” or “I am my mother’s daughter”. And I realized I don’t want to be just like him. I want to learn and grow and I think the whole racing element in Formula 1 in the movie and Al Pacino and all was kind of connected into breaking away from the past and driving as fast as you can in a new direction. But really in a race you’re driving in circles. So it was all these metaphors and symbols about self-identity, who you are, who you come from and how you become yourself. I think my father was really the last person I needed to confront in my life personally to grow into the person I am now and where I want to be. And thinking about nature, the moon and the stars helped me understand these things I was going through. And that’s my actual dad talking on that track.
Wow. That’s him?
Yeah, my real dad. Through this album we’re actually much closer now. He was a little scared, like “how much are you revealing of how shitty I was?”. “You know what, dad,” I said “it’s for my art, and you have to suck it up”. But it became more about a…
A catharsis?
Yes, exactly, which is what I believe music is for. I didn’t have a clue it was going to be about this. It just kinda revealed itself.
I think it’s a wise approach for an artist not to play it safe. And you did “Bobby” Deerfield. But take also “Bobby” Dylan who used to be the hero of the folk community and then decided to go electric. He made lots of enemies but he was right. And then he was considered the so-called hero of rebellion and he converted to Christianity from being a Jew. Can you imagine? I mean, you’ve got to follow your own guts.
I got into Bob Dylan through his lyrics. I study voice, so for me growing up it was all about the way artists sounded. But I didn’t like Bob Dylan. I didn’t like the way he sounded. “He can’t sing, he’s terrible,” I said. And as I got older I started to realize it’s not just about accuracy, how good you are singing, or what your sound is. He’s a whole other kind of artist. And I started reading his lyrics and now I could read his lyrics all day long. And now when I listen to him I have a different appreciation for the artist he is. Before it was “ha, he can’t hit high notes”. And I mean it’s so inspiring, and this is why these artists like Bob Dylan and Joni Mitchell are ahead of their time. I’m just doing it in the time that makes sense for me, I think, but some of my fans they’re like “hey, what are you doing?”. But you’ve got to take risks. It’s important to grow. Even if my music is more successful when I’m dead, great! Because then maybe I’m ahead of my time.
Well, it’s a bit too early days to talk about your death. But anyway, touch wood. Now I would like to talk about a previous instrumental of yours that I love, “Mulholland”. It’s my turn to take risks now because this is a crazy question. “Mulholland”, like many of your songs, is very atmospheric. Does it have anything to do with David Lynch’s film “Mulholland Drive”? I love the piano in that track. Did you know there was a famous magician called John Mullholland who died in 1970 and specialized in coin tricks. When I was watching the movie “Bobby Deerfield” there’s the female protagonist asking Al Pacino, while they’re watching a magician performing a coin trick, “do you think it’s a trick? You think he can pull it off?”. Then you see again the coin in another scene with two lesbians dancing. The film even finishes with the magician performing on stage. These elements about coin tricks, David Lynch and Mullholland Drive were at the back of your mind when you were writing the song or are they just part of a weird fantasy of mine?
I feel like you know me. I’m an introvert, a little shy. But, like Easter Eggs, I love connecting things without telling people. I used to live on Mullholland Highway. That was the original reason. And then I loved David Lynch’s movie “Mullholland Drive”. I didn’t know about the magician but I will tell you this, that I like doing tricks with things that go through my videos and so, yes, you could say that.
Check him out: John Mullholland, famous for his coin trick.
I will. Good point.
I’m going to quote myself and read something I wrote about Leonard Cohen once. Maybe it applies to your music. In the film “Bobby Deerfield” the female protagonist is crazy, in a way, but she sees through things. Suzanne, the protagonist of one of Leonard Cohen’s songs, is “half crazy”. There is paradoxically something very uplifting about your music. Something similar happens to me when I’m listening to Leonard Cohen. Whoever defined Leonard Cohen as depressing made a huge mistake. If you’re feeling down and out, on the contrary, his songs have a way of taking you by the hand. They comfort you while you’re descending and help you get back to the surface. You know deep inside they will never leave you during that healing process. They are faithful songs. Take “Anthem”. It remains to this day the best antidote against any obsession with perfectionism because it teaches us that “there is a crack in everything / that’s how the light gets in.” Let’s keep that in mind: salvation seeps in through our inadequacies, not when we feel we are at our strongest. Cohen’s main purpose has always been to write “a manual for living with defeat”. Are you writing a manual for living with defeat, Niia?
Yes, for sure! Of course. Let me tell you I’m very flattered by that compliment. I think as an artist that’s my job. And I think Leonard Cohen is so inspiring. When I’m upset I listen to him. He’ll be the one to talk me off the ledge.
He heals me.
Totally. I don’t know if you heard my last EP, it was called “If I Should Die”. And I was singing “what happens to me / if I should die”, but these are things people think about. They want to hear comfort in stuff they’re afraid of and I think for this I wanted to feel that you can be whoever you want to be even though it’s devastating when some of the people around you have hurt you so much. You can be hurt by the ones you love the most. But you can do something about it and you will be ok. You can find yourself through it all. But having good lyrics you’ve got to go through the pain. Great question, I love that.
“Bobby Deerfield” is also a road trip around Italy. Is that what draws you to the film?
I think so. I have so many memories of driving around with my family in the countryside of Italy. We would always rent a car from Rome or somewhere and just go. Even during Covid when I was in L.A. the only thing I could really do to escape sometimes was get in my car and drive. Driving became a real friend to me. Throughout my life and even more so as I’ve gotten older and lived in L.A. I listen to music in my car, I do everything in my car. It’s like my safe space.
Have you ever dreamed of acting? I think you could act, you know.
Definitely. I act every day of my life. I would love to act. I almost went to school for acting. It was either acting or singing and I was so in love with singing. I definitely do wanna act. I think that’s something that’ll be easy to do for me. But still a craft, you’ve got to learn it. It’s really just connecting with your feelings, which is all I do.
“Night Ride”, track number 3, has nice groove. “Sick in My Mind”’s got another great solo there at the end.
I also like that some of the music, as you said, goes into grooves, different moods and tones. It’s almost as if every song is its own crazy thing. Either it’s this beautiful weird slow thing or suddenly there is this fast song. And in some ways you may ask yourself “how does all this make any sense together?”. But it’s like a road trip. When you’re driving in the morning the sun is coming up. That’s a very different mood, that song that you’d be listening to as the sun comes up it’s very different than when the sun is going down, or it’s 1am and you feel like dancing. You can listen to a lot of different music in your car. So I feel that’s also something that’s important, the different grooves, the different styles for all the emotions you can go through in a road trip too.
Maybe that’s one of your strengths, the fact that you’re unpredictable. I would say that’s a good definition. I’ve been very nice to you so far and now I’m going to end with a criticism and ask you a difficult question, okay? This is not something I was thinking while listening to your new album. It’s something I had been thinking some time ago. I remember I was listening to the track you mentioned before, “If I Should Die” which by the way is a beautiful meditation on time with some great Spanish canto and electric guitar riff at the end. I hope you won’t take offence.
No. Go ahead.
If I may point out a limit in your lyrics is that they are mostly oriented to the “You and I” intimate aspect of the relationship, and to the dissatisfaction of one of the two partners, usually you. Have you ever thought about enlarging the perspective, maybe trying to write about global or spiritual issues? Or do you still prefer the basic approach, meaning that after all is said and done, the world would be a better place if we were able to solve our personal relationships?
This is a great question because I was tired of writing about myself and my boy-friends. I thought this album “Bobby Deerfield” was going to be my Dylan record. I thought I was ready, I could write about the world. Even writing about nature has been hard for me. That’s why on this album it was a challenge to write a song about the moon, about the stars without relating it back to me. I’m still in a place where if I don’t connect to it it’s hard for me to write about it. And a huge goal is to be able to take that step to write more universally, to write about things going on in the world, to write more abstract even, about nature and to take me out of it. And I think what happened was when I started this album that was my goal and then I realized “oh shit! There’s still somebody in my way to get there,” and it was my dad. I’m still in my own way working through some shit to get to that new terrain to grow as a writer. I think for me that is the dream. And that’s why Dylan and Joni Mitchell, Crosby Still & Nash, these folk artists are influential for me, to make me work a little bit harder. Write a song about a star. That’s hard for me. This album took way too long just because it wasn’t necessarily about a boy who broke my heart. But it is still you and someone and feelings, so yeah that is hopefully where I will take my lyrics but it’s hard, it’s really hard for me. I think it’s because I grew up singing jazz songs that are all about heart-ache, and you and me and my heart. Learning how to write differently is a skill that I have to practice.
I think if you did that it would be such a breakthrough. It would give that added value to your art and make it even more universal.
Totally. And I also don’t know if this is true with Italian music now in pop, but everything became very confessional in the last couple of years. That was the real trend in pop, being confessional in rap, like “I said…you did…” Everything was literal, nothing was metaphorical anymore.
I love it when there are other strata, deeper layers. You don’t tell me everything, I have to guess, I have to work it out. Maybe I get it wrong but it was worth the effort.
I think that’s coming back around. That’s where I’d like to start to shift to be more poetic. And what you’re saying, I’m happy you said that! That is one of my goals. Am I going to write about a boy for the rest of my life? No!
