Conversation #2: Pamela Fisher, Director of Economic Development at Indiana Department of Transportation
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Cross the U.S., states big and small are grappling with long range planning amidst a rush of automotive innovations. At the recent 2018 International Transportation and Economic Development Conference, I connected with Pamela Fisher, Director of Economic Development at Indiana Department of Transportation, to talk about how a midwestern state like Indiana looks for opportunity in connected and automated vehicle (CAV) technology. The discussion has been edited for length and clarity.
June 2018, Washington DC
Kathy Zhang: Could you give us an overview of the economic landscape of Indiana — what sectors are particularly important, and how is it changing?
Pamela Fisher: Indiana is located in the midwest, and we have several major urban centers including Indianapolis. The majority of the state would be considered rural, which means that agriculture is a major industry for us. However, we are in the direct center of the automotive manufacturing corridor. We’re home to 5 OEM, so automotive manufacturing is of critical importance to the state and all of the supporting industries.
KZ: Broadly speaking, the applications for connected and automated vehicles can be split into goods transported and passenger transport. How do these two different applications apply to Indiana’s CAV plan?
PF Because of our geographical location, we’re within an eight hour drive of two thirds of the U.S. population, which means that we are major logistics hub. We’ve got the second largest FedEx center, strong UPS and United States Postal Service hubs also.
That makes us front and center on the commercial transportation side, which means that we’re very interested in the application of this technology for moving goods — both in terms of the products that are being manufactured in Indiana and moving goods to consumers throughout the U.S.
In addition to that, we’re very interested in the passenger vehicle side because, again, being home to five OEMs we have that talent, industry, and the supplier network. So both goods and passenger transport are definitely areas of interest.
KZ: Something you highlighted in your presentation, which I think is front and center in this discussion is labor. The research out thus far basically says we’re going to gain some jobs and we’re going to lose some jobs. What do you think is the responsibility at various levels of government for jobs training and transitioning people out of jobs? Is this on such a long time scale that it’s not necessarily something that people are trying to solve now?
PF: I think the workforce is the number one issue that I hear about regardless of who I’m talking to. We’re partnering with trade organizations that are involved in any of our transportation related issues to identify programs that are out there. So this could be for training for entry level workforce or for the skill engineering talent that we need to design transportation infrastructure.
We’re working closely with our universities to ensure that there is a pipeline for civil and mechanical engineers to join the transportation workforce that we need within our state. We’re working with federal highway on training targeted towards women and minority high school students to introduce them to transportation industry as potential STEM careers.
KZ: But what about the fear of drivers losing jobs?
PF: This is a very valid issue concern for government to be considering as we’re making decisions on adoption of new technology. But I do want to point out that, specifically in the motor trucking industry, they are having record labor shortage issues. While I recognize the concern over the impact that this is going to have for their future for their current workforce, I also do think we need to acknowledge all of the job openings that they’re currently unable to fill. So maybe this technology is a way for us to actually help motor truckers more effectively move goods and services.
KZ: Connected and automated passenger transportation is coming to dense urban areas first. What are some passenger transport applications you see for Indiana? And where is the citizen’s voice or interest or concern in this?
PF: For those of us who are living in urban centers, we need to be focused on and looking at opportunities to educate the general public that isn’t involved in this on a daily basis, when they find driverless cars to be frightening. I personally don’t see [CAVs] having impact on rural communities in the near future.
When you look at the infrastructure that needs to be installed to even have broadband — and we’re not even to that point yet — it makes it difficult to imagine that passenger vehicle technology is going to be coming to a rural community in the near future. In terms of the elderly or people who have mobility issues, having access to this type of technology could be life changing.
KZ: If we can switch over to the federalism issue for a bit — how is INDOT working with cities and localities in terms of their transportation options for economic development?
PF: Indianapolis is one of the cities that’s under consideration for the Amazon second HQ, so obviously Amazon has been very clear that having access to multiple modes of transportation is of critical importance to talent attraction. Businesses thinking about locating in Indiana are going to project the availability of labor within a certain drive time. Again, what I see is not having access to autonomous vehicles — I see it having access to maybe van pooling or looking at new ways to bring talent to the jobs.
How does government provide access for potential workers to get to work? So I don’t see an expansion of bus service for everybody, but maybe it’s targeted towards a workforce that needs to get to a specific region.
We are planning years out, and it’s difficult most times for us to be agile and transitioning to the new technology. So our new commissioner has tasked us with trying futureproof our transportation investments so that we can be looking at ways to incorporate technology into those infrastructure improvements.
There are dueling technologies. We don’t know what’s going to be the winner in terms of data collection. And I think it’s very difficult for a state to be making decisions without having more clarity on what is going to be the winning technology.
KZ: It seems the core understanding of the technology is almost entirely housed within the private firms. There’s this massive information imbalance, and they are working to drive the regulation to be favorable to industry. Where do you guys fit into this conversation?
PF: CAV is new for us, and so we don’t somebody that is experienced in helping us adopt this new technology. And I think that it’s fair for me to say that’s the case for the other 49 states too. We’re all doing the best that we can to get up to speed on all of the news that’s out there. As you know, it’s like to you from a fire hose. There’s so much information on a daily basis. It’s difficult to keep up with everything.
And I think that’s one thing that’s different about this monumental change to transportation technology, is that industry is already far ahead of government, and government is used to being ahead of industry and making sure that everybody stays in their lane.
We have to have been having conversations with other Midwestern states, most recently with Ohio, to look at opportunities for potentially designing a multi-state platooning test that would help our state’s shipping businesses.
KZ: But in terms of CAV testing and deployments, there is this catch-22 where we don’t want to put out there because it’s untested and and we don’t know if it’s safe without testing. With safety being paramount, what’s Indiana’s position in allowing for pilots and testing of the different AV companies?
PF: In our most recent legislative session, we had legislation drafted for CAV technology that was not successful in getting through the legislative process. Our platooning legislation, however, did advance. So we’re currently working with other state agencies, as well as Indiana State Police, to understand how can we do test deployments on an interstate and understanding what would be required for that. I don’t see actually having on-road CAV testing anytime within the next 12 months.
KZ: What are the state level concerns on infrastructure funding, specifically for connected infrastructure?
PF: We are had a lot of support from our legislators targeting funds towards infrastructure, so we have significant funding made available to us over the next 20 years, which is a very good thing. However the needs are many, and we’re focused on preservation of our existing infrastructure and then finishing existing projects that we had. We’ve got roughly a billion dollars a year to be used for transportation infrastructure for a state of 6 million people, just give you an idea of how large we are.
But I will tell you from being in communities, they’re incredibly appreciative of the funds that we have. But the needs far outpace the funds that we have. Indiana is a well-funded state. I can only imagine in states and in many other Midwestern states are struggling with transportation budgets, and it’s very difficult to maintain your transportation infrastructure let alone invest in new technology.
KZ: People may not know or care about the latest technology, but they want a means of transportation that’s affordable and reliable.
PF: Right. We have to be cognizant that whatever technology is being proposed is something that our average constituent could afford to use. But I didn’t mention this earlier when we were talking about technology — I think in our rural communities rather than it being passenger vehicles, we may be seeing commercial agricultural vehicles being a prime example of how CAVs may be deployed.
