Interview Session w/ the founders of Lalita Project: Grace Kadiman & Abigail Limuria
Kenalan Yuk eps.4
Hello everyone, how are you? Happy new years from our team over at MyEduSolve. As we all know, New Year means New Episode of #KenalanYuk! Jadi ada yang baru nih di interview series ke 4 ini… Apa ya kira-kira? Nah ada 2 hal yang baru. The first one, this interview is conducted in collaboration with Spark Indonesia (@sparkindonesia). And the second, in this interview, kita berkesempatan menginterview dua orang sekaligus, yang merupakan founder dan co-founder dari Lalita (@lalitaproject), ada Grace Kadiman (@gracekadiman) dan juga Abigail Limuria (@abigailimuria). Lalita tuh apa sih? Kegiatannya ngapain? Kapan Lalita terbentuk? Jadi sebenernya Lalita itu apa? Penasaran kan jawabannya, langsung aja dibaca yuk hasil interviewnya!
To start off, tell us your story! What are you passionate about, what are your hobbies?
Grace: I’m grace, I’m currently a journalism student, I’m a senior, I’m the founder and co-writer of lalita project. I think one of my passion’s itu tuh lies in telling individual stories because I think that’s really powerful and it can break a lot of stereotypes especially since a lot of people, we tend to put a lot of people in boxes right, so that’s where I’m trying to go with journalism. My hobby, I like to bake. What else am I passionate about? I guess I’m really passionate about, the same with Abby. We have a lot of the same interest, I guess that’s why started becoming friends and starting this project, because we’re both interested in digging/thinking deeper the meanings of life, and the big ideas, kind of the things that tie everybody together.
Abigail: My name is Abigail, I graduated two years ago, I graduated with a media management major. Pernah kerja di government di balai kota, and I’m the co-founder and co-writer of lalita project and the buku lalita. On the daily basis I’m the admin for lalita project’s Instagram, replying DM’s, bikin content, nulis-nulis.I also do freelancing watercolor and branding, I’m interested in philosophy and stories and ideas because I think , a good idea, a well executed idea can change the world and a good idea is your all access pass to the world so you don’t have to be somebody first to make a difference.
So, in a glimpse, what is Lalita Project? And what inspires the name?
A: Lalita Project is in our instagram Bio, itu merayakan dan belajar dari kehidupan dan pencapaian perempuan-perempuan Indonesia. Pertamanya cuman merayakan kehidupan dan pencapaian perempuan-perempuan Indonesia, tapi kita tambahin belajar cause we realize that in celebrating you also learn, so in a nutshell that’s what lalita project is.
G: so Lalita itu datang dari bahasa sansekerta, well lalita is the root word dari jelita. Lalita artinya pandai berucap, senang bermain, cantik, menarik, aktif, tapi kalau misalnya dari bahasa sansekerta jadi bahasa indonesia jelita kan artinya cuman cantik gitu kan, jadi buat kita lalita itu benar-benar mendefinisikan perempuan-perempuan Indonesia yang sesungguhnya gitu. Mereka itu tak terbatas, mereka tangguh, mereka pintar, mereka juga menarik gitu. Kita mau buat kata ini itu benar-benar merepresentasikan perempuan-perempuan Indonesia.
Going off that, does the word means something different to you now? Diluar dari definisi dari kata itu sendiri, sekarang arti dari Lalita Project di hidup kalian berdua itu seperti apa sih?
G: For me personally, I mean I grew up being taught that there was one way to define an Indonesian woman, tapi bisa dilihat dari buku ini dan perempuan-perempuan yang didalam buku ini tuh sangat beragam semua orang itu punya jalan hidup beda-beda gitu, mereka bisa melakukan hal — hal yang beda dan sukses. Jadi lalita itu tuh, emang merayakan kehidupan perempuan Indonesia, karena they can’t fit, they shouldn’t have to fit us into a box and we don’t have to conform to a certain definition to be successful.
A: For me, I think kata lalita itu, it reenforce the definition yang udah bagus, but it redefines the definition of an attractive woman, a desirable woman. Jadi yang seperti Grace bilang juga, as seen di buku Lalita each of us have a different talent, a different hardship, a different path, and a different dream, jadi we shouldn’t compare ourself to one another, we shouldn’t try to fit ourself into a mold, cause everyone’s unique, everyone’s different. and therefore, if you try to change yourself or if you stop contributing the world will loose a valuable asset because we are unique. Jadi I think, the world Lalita itu represents the diversity and uniqueness of women.
Wow — that’s very insightful! Jadi penasaran, sebenarnya asal muasal dari Lalita Project itu seperti apa sih? Apa yang membuat kalian peduli dengan hal yang kalian tulis dan bicarakan di dalam buku dan social media kalian?
G: Well first me and Abby were roommates in college and we have the same interest, we like to talk about philosophy, talk about life, different issues, and one day pas kita diskusi, kita sadar bahwa tiap kali kita ngomong role model pasti muncul pertanyaan “oh who’s your role model?” dan jawaban yang selalu come up itu kalau gak laki-laki, perempuan tapi dari luar negeri.
A: Coba deh tanya sekarang ke orang sebelah, siapa lima perempuan Indonesia role model kamu, gak ada yang bisa jawab, mentok paling dua orang. Jadi dengan premise itu kita juga mulai nanya-nanya, gak ada yang bisa kasih kita jawaban yang satisfying, jadi mulai mikir dong, masa sih gak ada perempuan Indonesia yang hebat? Masa gak ada sih perempuan Indonesia yang layak jadi role model? so I told Grace to think of the craziest occupation you can think of. So I typed in Google “Astronaut Perempuan Asia Pertama/First Asian Female astronaut” and apparently it’s from Indonesia. Ibu Pratiwi Soedarmono, first female astronaut of Asia is from Indonesia and we don’t know about her. Pasti ada banyak yang kayak dia lagi, yang kita gak tahu, so we dig more and we found a lot. But we don’t have any one stop medium, a book, cause we like to read juga, yang tells the story in an interesting way, in a relevant way yang presented beautifully, so we came up with the idea three years ago.
In essence, enlightening the future generations about Indonesian, women role models ya! Going off that, sebelum menulis buku ini, siapa sih role model yang berdampak di hidup kalian selama ini?
G: if you ask me, jujur, dulu I used to say my mom, I still look up to my mom, I don’t mean to discredit the lessons she’s taught me in life and the person she helped me grow into but at the same time, these women also deserve recognition, because, yes our mom is a force in our lives, we should learn about other women juga jangan cuman in our circle, we should learn about people who are outside.
A: for me honestly, I don’t have a role model. never had, which I think I gravitate towards this book and that’s why I say this book is actually about role model, soalnya emang growing up I’ve never found anyone yang menurut gue, “oh I look up to her or him” and I’m looking for that person. So while writing it gue mau tau, perempuan yang hebat di Indonesia itu gimana sih? can I make them a role model?
That’s the perfect segue to my next question! So — why does the book focus on women and women in leadership positions?
G: I mean for me at least, I gravitate towards that topic, especially because I was talking to my mom last night and I remember when we find out Ibu Pratiwi Soedarmono, astronaut pertama Indonesia, I called her. I said “mom tau gak, astronaut pertama dia Asia yang perempuan itu tuh dari Indonesia” dia bilang “oh ya, tau bu Pratiwi Soedarmono” my mom bilang gitu, and gue bilang “loh kok gak pernah ngasih tau gue?” “why didn’t you ever tell me?” gitu and dia bilang “ya tapi kan, I can tell you but I don’t know her story, I don’t know what’s going on” and I think we need that, to pass on to the next generation biar mereka juga tau perempuan-perempuan hebat Indonesia itu tuh ceritanya seperti apa, bukan sekedar nama aja gitu. People need to know mereka punya pencapaian apa, apa yang kita bisa belajar dari mereka gitu.
A: I actually did the same, I called my parents. But again to the question, kan why women? not men, not fifty one amazing people of Indonesia maybe. Mungkin karena perempuan itu tuh, perception of women itu tuh it impacted me personally, directly and I do believe in Indonesia masih ada inequality in how people view women as, ini kan lima puluh satu cerita perempuan hebat Indonesia dalam karir, iya kan? bukan dalam hidup. Dalam hidup definisi hebat ada macem-macem, tapi ini dalam definisi karir dan menurut gue perempuan Indonesia masih gak imbanglah dilihat di dalam, in terms of, career, contohnya occupation, dokter, semua orang kalau orang jadi dokter pasti bilang “wah! hebat” tapi kalau misalnya jadi yang dibilang kerja di factory atau mungkin pekerjaan yang gak sepopuler dokter gitu, atau misalnya jadi fine artist lah, jadi painter, which sekarang udah lebih di appreciate sih cuman kan skalanya masih lebih gak se-prestige dokter. Buat apa gue bikin buku “sepuluh alasan kenapa pekerjaan dokter itu hebat” orang udah tau itu hebat, tapi mungkin gue bisa bikin buku tentang “sepuluh alasan kenapa kerja sebagai seniman itu keren” karena orang itu masih ngeliatnya belum disitu. Belum di appreciate as much. Jadi kenapa bikin lima puluh satu cerita perempuan hebat Indonesia dalam Karir karena masih ada persepsi yang gak imbang disitu jadi kita alasannya itu, for me.
That’s a very different take of life! Jadi pengen tahu, sekarang what motivates you the most and what still keeps you up at night?
G: For me, I think growing up, I’ve never felt Indonesian, I grew up in the International system, I grew up speaking mostly english and I always wanted to go overseas, find a job there, settle down and maybe come back, maybe not. I think what motivates me now gara-gara this book juga, throughout the process kita tuh mewawancarai perempuan-perempuan ini dan mereka tuh make me aware that there’s so many things that can be done still in Indonesia, buat apa gue ke luar negeri gitu and then I just like to work for a foreign company, work in an established system gitu while here gitu we really do have the opportunity to create and to make something new, to bring something fresh to the table to innovate, to push Indonesia forward ya kan. that for me, that’s what drives me sih.
A: For me, juga maybe from the book ya, I realized suka denger cerita kan, cerita juga ada satu lowongan nih di perusahaan gede, yang apply tiga ribu padahal yang dicari cuman satu orang jadi 2999 itu kecewa dan jadi jobless. Waktu itu aku pernah interview sama namanya Butet Manurung dia bilang “ saya tuh dari kecil saya bingung loh ngeliat orang lomba-lomba coba apply untuk pekerjaan, untuk saya itu absurd” dia bilang, kenapa? “harusnya pekerjaan yang ngejar kamu, soalnya kamu itu tuh seharusnya bisa differentiate yourself and do something yang needed ya kan, if people need you mereka yang akan nyari kamu gitu, kenapa kamu coba masuk ke satu job yang seribu orang bisa lakuin” nah terus aku wawancara ibu Herawati Sudoyo, dia ahli genetic. Jadi ibu Herawati dia itu pelajarin genetik suku-suku indonesia supaya dia bisa bikin obat yang pas untuk mereka, nah dia bilang “ saya nih gak bisa selesaiin ini sendiri, saya butuh generasi muda yang mau bantuin saya” jadi sebenernya banyak kerjaan yang sangat penting, dan anak-anak muda yang hebat, tapi mereka coba fit themself di satu lubang yang kecil banget, yang semua org mau kesitu padahal itu lubang-lubang yang lain masih ada yang banyak. Nah itu, I hope dengan buku ini banyak yang bisa tahu.
Out of all the different interviews that you’ve done, you must have heard different kinds of stories and perspectives. My question is, which of these perspectives really made you go “why didn’t I think of that before?”
G: For me ada dua sih, satu Talita Setyadi, she’s a pastry chef dan kehidupannya dari kecil memang sekitar pastry. Her perspective is she’s always looking for outlets to express herself jadi waktu dia kuliah dia belajar music majornya double bass in New Zealand, but then she realized that she had a passion for cooking gitu, and with her food dia juga bisa express herself gitu so now dia tuh bener-bener, the truest most raw form itu she puts it into her bakery, BEAU bakery, she doesn’t really care about anything but solely about how she can represent herself the most accurately in the stuff that she does and success will come after, I think that’s one of it, just being unapologetically yourself will get you so far. And the second one Ibu Sidrotun Naim, dia tuh ilmuwan bioteknologi kelautan ya, Aquaculture. So what she does is research, right now she’s doing work on this venture where she’s developing actually obat for shrimp, you know when we think of ilmuwan gitu we think of think of scientists, kita selalu pikirin “oh they’re doing all these grand research” gitu “they’re doing all these crazy things” tapi bu Sidrotun Naim ini dia solely focus on how she can help people, so she’s one of the most down to earth people I’ve ever met. Dia udah pernah dapet penghargaan dari the king of Spain, dapat fulbright, she’s taught at Harvard, MIT, but now she comes back she is solely focused on helping everyday people. Dia dateng udah gitu dia bantuin mereka ngobatin udang mereka supaya bisa di export gitu buat dia itu tuh achievements and success or a validation from other people gak matter, what matters is pushing other people or helping other people through the work that she’s doing.
A: Buat saya, seperti yang sudah disebutkan sebelumnya yaitu Butet Manurung, beliau merupakan pioneer of alternative education untuk indigenous people atau penduduk asli, anak-anak suku yang berada di pedalaman. Salah satu hal yang beliau sampaikan adalah “Sebenarnya, kamu tau gak? gak ada orang yang bodoh cuma ada orang yang ngebohongin hati mereka” artinya, ada orang-orang tertentu yang sebenarnya mengetahui dalam hati mereka hal apa yang harus dilakukan, tapi memilih untuk tidak melakukannya.
Beliau juga bilang, contoh orang yang membohongi hati yaitu yang bilang gini “saya pengen dong ikut ka butet pergi ke hutan tapi saya takut gelap” beliau mengatakan “coba deh kenapa sih kamu ngomongnya gitu, harusnya dibalik, kak aku takut gelap tapi aku suka ke hutan.. pasti kamu pergi, tapi kalau kamu bilangnya aku suka ke hutan, tapi takut gelap kamu gak akan pergi” lanjutnya “jadi sebelum kamu mau complain kamu beresin dulu “tapi tapi” kamu dan stop bohong ke hati sendiri” itu adalah hal — hal yang benar benar berkesan untuk saya dan dalem banget maknanya.
Yang kedua adalah Evvy Kartini, bu Evvy Kartini, seorang ahli nuklir yang gelarnya hanya dimiliki sepuluh orang didunia. Beliau sempat ditawarkan kewarganegaraan dari hamoir semua negara maju seperti Amerika Serikat, Kanada, Jepang dan Singapura. Tapi beliau menolak dan bilang “gak saya mau di Indonesia” beliau punya karamter yang lucu, quirky, and she’s very confident.
Beliau menyampaikan “saya gak harus tinggal di Amerika atau di Kanada, saya di Indonesia mereka yang datangi saya karena mereka butuh saya”. Beliau membawa sisi yang berbeda dari orang Indonesia, mungkin beberapa orang akan beralasan bahwa meskipun seseorang pintar tapi masih kurang dukungan dari pemerintah dan pendanaannya kecil sedangkan beliau bilang “oh gak ada dana? saya cari uangnya, oh gak ada yang support? gakpapa saya panggil temen-temen internasional saya, gak ada materialnya? saya buat materialnya di Indonesia” beliau buat material gelas sendiri.
Mindset yang dimiliki beliau benar-benar eye opening banget. Just because you live in not the most comfortable country, but if you have the skill, people will come to you. itu bener-bener keren for me.
What was your biggest lesson throughout the making of this book? Dan apa sesuatu yang kamu tadinya nggak kepikiran perlu belajar, tapi malah belajar banget karena pengalaman ini?
A: I think I mentioned it already, it’s in the kata pengantar sih yang gue bilang, for me a good idea is your all access pass to the world. Banyak orang yang limit themself with their own mind I think “tapi kan, gue kan gak punya koneksi, tapi kan gue all my life gak gitu kenal orang indo, gue begini, tapi tapi tapi” ya samalah ada tapi tapinya tapi if you have a good idea even if you are a nobody like us right, kita siapa sih? Tapi we have a vision, an idea and somehow that idea opened doors, jadi ya itu sih number one lesson yang I learned. if you have a strong idea, strong vision and you execute bener-bener well, conscientiously, it will open doors.
G: For me I think I learned that, gini a lot of people stay in the mind set, oh the world is against me and I can’t do anything about it gitu there’s no way I can be successful karena banyak orang yang bilang I can’t do it, tapi you can, you just have to be willing to work hard, and you have to be willing to commit yourself dan berkerja keraslah untuk make your dream a reality. Honestly, aku gak pernah bisa mimpi buku ini bisa segini bagus gitu jujur loh dulu pas kita baru mulai Abby bilang “ eh bikin buku yuk” and I said “ yuk yuk yuk” tapi sekarang jadi bikin passionate juga karena how much work we put in, how much important conversations we’ve have with many people juga gitu.
What was the hardest challenge that you guys faced in the three years that you guys did this and how did you overcome it? If you haven’t, how do you think you’ll overcome that challenge?
G: For me ya, the biggest challenge, me and Abby kan kerjanya long distance karena I was in school kan and that was the biggest challenge for me to be present gitu and to constantly be there, karena kan if I’m away from life disini what’s going on here, When I’m over there gitu I have homework, I have other stuff, I was volunteering, I was doing PERMIAS LA gitu kan, jadi banyak banget kerjaannya sampe it’s hard to keep my mind present disini where I actually am not, karena my surrounding bukan disini and for me the hardest part sih, it was a long distance relationship sih kita bikin appointment, “oh setiap minggu harus telpon at this time” every week harus, kalau gak akan susah . We’re learning how to communicate well.
A: For me, it’s the writing, jadi me and Grace didn’t grew up speaking, writing in Indonesian right, we feel more comfortable speaking in english. But we know right off the bat that this book needs to be in Indonesian because it’s about indonesian women, it’s about indonesia jadi ya harus nulis buku bahasa indonesia, tapi bahasa Indonesia kita tuh jelek banget, sampe- sampe harus belajar, gue ngerasanya dari 0 sih soalnya karena gak pernah nulis anyway di bahasa indonesia, nulis buku ya, dan tadi sudah sempet mention awal-awal waktu bikin instagram kan aku yang nulis di instagramnya tuh, maybe grammarnya banyak yang salah jadi salah satu narasumber buku ngefollow instagram kita terus dia text dia bilang, kalian nanti pake editor kan? soalnya bahasa indonesianya banyak yang salah loh di instagram itu. terus gue bilang “Wah ya I know!” terus dari situ ya harus baca lagi, harus belajar lagi, belajar lagi, belajar lagi, sampe akhirnya bisa nulis buku bahasa indonesia itu struggle banget sih.
So you guys started with: I didn’t know what it meant to be Indonesian — so what do you guys think it means to be Indonesian now?
G: I think for me ya, I think mentioned a little bit about it earlier, tapi I don’t think there is a specific way to define what being Indonesian is, karena kita liat aja kehidupan-hidupan ini, semuanya beragam semua jalan hidup mereka berbeda, datengnya dari beda, sekarang sampe nyampe the point to where they are now juga udah beda gitu kan, being indonesian, I think for me, being able to do whatever makes you content honestly, having all the opportunities there, I think the opportunity is there you just need to like to work for it.
A: kalo for me, as long as you’re willing to participate, jadi, in the two years I interviewed I learned more about Indonesia than the 17 years I lived before I go to college disini, soalnya I never wanted to watch indonesian movies, or listen to indonesian songs, we want to live in this continual bubble, I think as long as you dengerin aja lagu bahasa indonesia, nonton film bahasa indonesia, baca buku indonesia itu cara superficial sih, atau mau bergaul sama orang indonesia yang berbeda latar belakangnya from you, atau willing to read the news about Indonesia as long as mau participate sih, soalnya if you’re not willing to participate even though you look indonesian I don’t think you are indonesian.
This is a question from Tamara (@tamarawuu), What is your ideal world or what do you want our society to be more of from this project?
G: from this project, I don’t want this book to just be received by somebody and then you put on a bookshelf and forgotten gitu, I don’t want this book to be in a bookstore on the shelf yang di paling bawah atau gimana gitu di paling belakang gitu gak kebaca, atau in a library dilupakan, I don’t want it to be like that, I want actual kids to bener-bener baca jadi mereka bisa belajar gitu and they can learn and be as inspired as I was throughout the whole process of making this book. Karena, I’d rather honestly ya bener, I’d rather see bukunya udah robek-robek, kotor-kotor, daripada masih baru dan gak pernah dibaca karena for me the knowledge inside is very important, yeah it’s a very pretty book, a very beautiful book but the knowledge and the intellect that you can take away from it is also way more important, what’s your ideal world?
A: for me, Ideal world, mungkin maksudnya Ideal Indonesia kali ya, more diversified, as I said tadi, lebih banyak orang yang tau, there’s so many other options so many occupation yang mungking from waktu kecil you never know is possible for you, jadi astronaut, jadi pembalap mobil F1, jadi genetic population scientist, jadi dokter udang, jadi guru di sekolah rimba, banyak banget yang mungkin stop trying to fit yourself into a mould yang everyone aleady have, jadi more diversified, terus abis itu more proud, karena taun bangsa Indonesia itu perempuannya keren-keren loh, nnggak cuman Malala, and Oprah and Michelle Obama, we, our women are pretty badasses, they’re really cool, terus abis itu more confident. they should stop yang itu, yang tapi, tapi, tapinya diberesin, mereka kejar aja, hajar aja, nekat aja dulu to do something.
That was really enlightening you guys, thank you so much for sharing! Jadi what’s next nih untuk tim Lalita?
G: what’s next? in the immediate future sih, what we wanna do is actually we wanna raise money to donate over, well the goal, the goal we set for ourself is 10,000 books buat anak-anak di berbagai daerah di indonesia, karena bukan cuman orang yang bisa beli yang should read it, tapi people who are in need of this kind of information juga live in places out of reach from jakarta and can’t get here juga kan, jadi we want to really spread the news jg sih, so we’re going to be working wiht different organizations, different companies, untuk bisa help donate these books to kids all over Indonesia.
A: long term, continue the movement, soalnya this is not a project, this is a movement. Maybe it’ll take another form, belum ada yang set in stone, so I don’t think it’s safe to say, cuman right now we want to push this book dulu sih, soalnya kita kan self publish jadi we rely everything on marketing for distribution jadinya, cause right now kita belum ngeluarin satu rupiah pun buat marketing kan jadi kita pengen lebih seriusin marketingnya, get the word out more, maybe do roadshows, supaya gak terlalu jakarta centric, dan ya itu targetnya 10,000 mungkin 100,000 juga gue mau sih sebenarnya sih honestly
Lastly, what advice you have for anyone who wants to start their own thing?
G: I think just start, I think that’s the advice I would give. Karena honestly first draft always come horrible, lets get real. Karena for the first time its not about how good it is, its about how you improve on it. Jadi don’t overthink it and just start.
Nah udah tau kan sekarang apa itu Lalita dan siapa sih wanita di balik Lalita. Selain itu juga pasti pada baru tau kalo ada banyak banget wanita hebat di Indonesia tapi kurang ke exposed, saya juga baru tau. Ternyata di Indonesia ini gak cuman para pria yang hebat namun juga banyak wanita hebat dengan karya-karyanya namun memang kurang jadi bahan pembicaraan karena gak banyak yang tahu. Jadi buat para wanita di luar sana yang merasa kurang percaya diri, lebih baik stop berpikir seperti gitu, and do something. Karena sekarang udah bukan jamannya yang pria doang yang bisa berbuat banyak hal, wanita juga bisa! Well, that’s it for now guys, hope you enjoy this series, sampai jumpa lagi di episode berikutnya yaaa.
MyEduSolve adalah perusahaan edutech yang fokus dalam meningkatkan kualitas tenaga kerja Indonesia melalui literasi digital. Dalam series ini kami menginterview seorang yang melakukan pekerjaannya atas dasar saying dan peduli terhadap lingkungan untuk mengajak anak muda untuk lebih peduli terhadap lingkungan kita, terhadap tempat yang kita tinggali, terhadap planet kita sendiri. Untuk kalian yang ingin tau lebih kenapa kita harus peduli lingkungan, semuanya bisa kalian baca disini. Dalam interview series kali ini kita berkolaborasi dengan Spark Indonesia. Spark Indonesia is a network of passionate and purpose-driven individuals dedicated to create social impact.
