GSB Pods: Where Not All the Peas Are Green
A look back at the creation and impact of the Stanford GSB Diversity Committee’s new DE&I programming
“Going into [Pods], I was a little bit skeptical, but it ended up being one of the highlights of my GSB experience.”
— Ece Aygun
By Samantha K. Abrams
People tend to avoid topics that make them uncomfortable. They worry they will offend or misrepresent their opinions. But as recent events make clear, being able to engage in difficult conversations is more important now than ever, as we reckon with our country’s history of systemic oppression and racial injustice.
Because of the incredible diversity at the GSB, from racial to socioeconomic to country of origin, and because we are going to hold disproportionate amounts of power, we have a unique opportunity to have these difficult conversations and be part of the solution for our country and the world.
The new mandatory Diversity, Equity & Inclusion programming for all first-year MBAs, called Pods, has started these conversations and put GSB on the path to becoming a more inclusive school that faces social issues head-on.
What is Pods?
A year ago, a number of MBA1s were frustrated by the feeling that, while there were a plethora of opportunities at the GSB to build community around commonalities, there were not enough opportunities to build relationships and empathy across differences. We created Pods to provide that opportunity: a way to share about our identities and dive into the difficult topics of diversity, equity, and inclusion. While this program was a reaction to something that was missing from the GSB experience, current events only evidence more sharply how much empathy, understanding, and compassion are needed in the broader society.
Pods happened only because of the tireless work of the eight students who ran the Diversity Committee from 2019–2020 — Ladd Hamrick, Madisen Obiedo, Chris Williams, Maddie Dean, Elise Smith, Lynn Farran, Andrew Jakubowski, and me. Since the inception of the idea in the spring of 2019, creating Pods has become a full-time job for the Diversity Committee members, from coordinating logistics, to planning the budget, to designing the curriculum and corresponding lessons, to getting the support of the administration, to recruiting, interviewing, training, and coordinating 70 MBA2 facilitators, to planning makeup assignments, to communicating with stakeholders, to data collection, analysis and integration.
The first edition of Pods involved three two-hour sessions over the course of fall quarter 2019. The GSB administration helped us create diverse groups of seven to eight MBA1s. And seventy MBA2s volunteered to be facilitators and went through online and in-person training.
The first Pods session involved creating group norms, doing ice breakers, and reflecting on a panel discussion about DE&I in the workplace. The second session was focused on identity, with each person sharing an object of meaning and a five-minute version of the story of their lives. And the last session focused on people’s shared and differing experiences with their identities, through a “raise your hand if” activity. Groups could always stray from the script and let the conversation follow its own course.
At the end of fall quarter, groups could opt to continue Pods in the winter quarter. The winter topics were more specifically focused on diversity, equity and inclusion, with each Student Association identity group submitting an activity from which Pods facilitators could choose.
MBA1 Experience with Pods
Since we are at business school, I will start with the numbers. With a ~70 percent response rate, 52 percent of Pods participants elected to continue with Pods, which exceeded the Diversity Committee’s goal of 50 percent.
Additionally, 72 percent were satisfied or very satisfied with their Pods experience, 66 percent said Pods had a positive impact on their quarter, and 69 percent said Pods should continue. This was a good indication to us that another 20–25 percent of students felt that Pods was valuable and should continue, even if they didn’t elect to continue.
From the survey feedback and interviews I conducted, multiple themes emerged around the value and impact of Pods for MBA1s.
Pods was a safe space to talk about difficult topics that would otherwise go unaddressed (or addressed only reactively).
There are some conversations that can be challenging to have and people are nervous that they are going to say the wrong thing, or it’s going to be misinterpreted. And so to be in an environment where people are really supportive, understand that mistakes can happen and that we’ll forgive you…and you’ll get feedback and a diversity of opinions and you’ll understand different ways to think about a problem — I think the environment that Pods created is a good environment to have these types of learnings.
— Kyle McAndrews
I feel very close to my Pods-mates and felt it was a safe space to voice things that I hadn’t voiced in the GSB setting before.
— Jovanna Alvarez
Usually [the conversations] happen in response to some pain point…But I think there’s an even better opportunity when you can have the conversation, kind of get a clean slate and then there’s no sense of blame, there isn’t this guilt that comes into the conversation.
— Wes Adams
Pods helped build empathy for and understanding of those different from us
There were clear differences in experiences that were really illuminating, like understanding why it is really challenging for international students to adjust to campus and how there are some things that as an American, you don’t recognize are US-centric, but jump out immediately and are inaccessible to someone from a different country…I did leave with more empathy.
— Belinda Niu
Pods gave me an opportunity to see how experiences that I have had were lived differently by people with different identities…We had an exercise where a statement would be read out and you would raise your hand if you’d experienced that. And there was one prompt that was something like, raise your hand if you’ve ever been misunderstood because of how you look. And all the women in our group raised their hands and none of the men did. And that was something that was very powerful.
— Korn Lapprathana
I realized people attach different weights to these sorts of things, like cultural appropriation. Domestic folks, Americans in particular, they seem to have much fresher memories of, you know, these sorts of things…Internationals don’t necessarily have that historical baggage fresh in their minds, and so for them, it’s not as not as raw, offensive, not as sensitive to them….You know, people might seem the same, like Hispanics and Latinos, or black Americans and African Africans…but …the way they think about these things is different, which is just a matter of their upbringing. And the culture with which they were brought up is just a very different way of thinking about these things and sensitivities around these things. And that was a very big ‘aha’ moment for me because of Pods.
— Pablo Lagos Allegre
Pods catalyzed deep relationships that otherwise may not have developed
It was a really interesting way to get to know people on a deeper level. Obviously everyone was already in my section… But we weren’t having the depth of conversations we started to have during Pods. It is special to learn about people’s backgrounds and what was really meaningful to people.
— Michele Spitzer
I feel like I understand these people a bit better… I know their stories, their values, who’s important to them in their life. Ultimately, I got to a point where I always feel comfortable reaching out to them on whatever basis needed. It provided the level of relationship-building in, let’s say 2–3 months, that I would expect an entire two year MBA program to provide you.
— Tim Lin
It gave a clue into somebody’s life beyond LinkedIn, beyond the class discussion…Everybody was in my section but the most interaction that we were having was still within class…I think this really did help break the ice to get us talking a little bit more deeply than just like, ‘My name is so and so, I worked in Private Equity. Let’s talk about this class assignment.’
— Vivas Kumar
I came away thinking how thoughtful and respectful and smart everyone was…and left saying, This is one of the reasons I came to the GSB, to have those types of moments.
— Kyle McAndrews
Pods catalyzed learning around DE&I and helped develop more comfort in engaging with DE&I topics
I think it was quite eye opening to me as an international student because I don’t think we have the same experience when it comes to the history or the ongoing racial tension or the sort of ethnic tension that you have going on in the US…In Turkey, for instance, you get to choose to exercise your identity or not….In the US, if you’re black, you’re black. And both the identity and all the difficulties that come with it, is imposed on you and you have very little control.
— Ece Aygun
This is an experience which helps me turn up the openness with which I engage on some of the questions that come up like, what is underlying in someone’s personal life? How do we think about aspects of one’s economic position when people are thinking about spending on skiing holidays? …I think it has widened the openness and willingness with which I will tackle these types of questions head on, rather than let them be underlying questions.
— Kanishka Narayan
Coming into GSB, in my corporate career, diversity always had been a check the box exercise. And this was a real education. This was not just a check the box, watch a presentation… I really liked learning about the whole concept of privilege, because I don’t think I had appropriately learned about the concept of privilege before Pods. So, for example, I’m an immigrant. But at the same time, I was a legal immigrant, so there is some privilege in being a legal immigrant, who has never had to worry about concerns that illegal immigrants have had to worry about. So I was like, Wow, okay, that’s a form of privilege I didn’t realize I had.
— Vivas Kumar
Pods helped underrepresented groups feel seen and supported at the GSB
I felt seen and connected with, for this to be a focus. Obviously whenever it’s the first year, everybody’s a little uneasy in terms of like, what is this, what is it going to be, but I think it just was a show of like, it was clear that [DE&I] was a priority.
— Wes Adams
Sometimes Stanford feels like a bubble where everything is perfect, but I’m also feeling sadness and outrage at the violence against black people happening outside of campus. I’ve felt really heartened and supported by everyone who has reached out and said, “I don’t know what to do or what exactly to say, but I see you and know you must be showing up to class through pain and I appreciate you for that. Let me know if I can help you.” I think Stanford has allowed us to get vulnerable with each other outside of business, and programs like Pods have allowed us to go deep with topics that can feel taboo or uncomfortable like race. For that I am forever grateful.
— Tamar Nisbett
Pods taught the importance of suspending judgment, assuming best intentions, and being compassionate
We all draw conclusions about people around us based on our limited exposure. And so I think we actually talked about how what we were hearing from people was different from some of the assumptions we’d made about them and how it was very special to get to address that early on. And as a reminder about how that applies to all of your relationships here.
— Michele Spitzer
You never know what someone’s struggling with…until you have these types of conversations. I’ve learned that these types of conversations are really valuable to truly understand people… I’ve learned, within this type of context, to give people the benefit of the doubt, assume best intentions, try to be compassionate and understanding that they might be having tough days or tough weeks.
— Kyle McAndrews
…And so I made sure to check in a few times and I was able to understand aspects of the person’s behavior in a different light. And I’d like to think hopefully in a more empathetic and substantive light. And generally, I kind of went around being far more aware that differences in how people were engaging…weren’t based on individual characteristics but were impacted by things going on in their lives.
— Kanishka Narayan
I was really surprised because there were people in my Pod that I put in a box in my head and I was wrong about those people. So it was very interesting to listen to their stories and what shaped them as people. Sometimes you don’t realize that the reason people do certain things is because of their personal history.
— Ece Aygun
Pods helped people find similarities across differences
It’s created a strong sense of shared experience. While I’ve learned a lot about the value in our differences from the stories / prompts, I’ve also felt comforted and supported in hearing similar themes in the way we are feeling about our GSB experience and approaching campus life.
— Belinda Niu
It was interesting, having people share anecdotes of their upbringing, any trouble they’ve gone through with their specific identity and how those common themes kind of resonated with other people from what you would imagine being like a completely different identity…It was pretty cool to see that everyone shared similar sentiments, similar lived experiences to bring us all closer together.
— Tim Lin
MBA2 Experience with Pods
Pods wasn’t just a value-add for the MBA1s. In addition to touching on a lot of the themes mentioned by the MBA1s, MBA2s found additional value in being Pods facilitators.
Pods filled a gap in the MBA1 experience
Pods provides a cross-cutting look at a lot of different identities…Identity groups are valuable, in terms of having people who can more fully understand some important aspects of your identity. Whereas Pods, since everyone isn’t necessarily part of the same identity group, there’s a lot of learning that can take place across identity groups and the same questions that might feel silly or challenging or difficult to ask in a broader setting, Pods provides the safety to ask those same questions.
— Bechir Pierre
For me, spaces to talk about diversity and inclusion topics, and not just with people who I talk to all of the time about those topics, felt missing from MBA1 year…Engage is only one day and anything worth figuring out is not something that can be accomplished in one day.
— Kavya Shankar
In our [first year] experience, I just felt that we opened all of these broad topics, like for example, at Engage or other events, and we never got to close or even go back to those topics like they did with Pods…And I like to think that this is a Pod for life, where, if you ever have a diversity and inclusion issue or if you want to run something by people, you can actually go back and run it by them. Versus for us [Class of 2020], I have to think, who are the seven or eight people that I should run this by?
— Diana Nassar
Pods provided valuable practice with facilitating conversations on important topics and developing more comfort around talking about DE&I
I found it super valuable, particularly for me as a white male with effectively zero real experience engaging in, let alone leading, conversations around diversity, to be in a role where I had the opportunity to facilitate these conversations and get a variety of perspectives…I think it will make me feel more comfortable having those types of conversations and being aware of those dynamics going forward in the workplace.
— Jack Strabo
I’ve always sought out conversations around DE&I on the participant end, but this was the first opportunity I had to take on the responsibility of facilitating and shaping the conversation. That was something I was eager to learn and practice while here at the GSB, and this felt like a nice sweet spot for it: the Diversity Committee had thought through the broader structure, but I was able to put my ideas and style into shaping the tone and culture of our Pod. It felt like a big responsibility — I believed strongly that this was an important initiative, and I wanted to see it succeed and flourish as a pillar of the MBA1 experience. I knew that we as facilitators played a big role in that. But I also could feel that my Pod members really wanted me to succeed, too. They brought curiosity and vulnerability to each session. It felt like we were all mutually bought in and supportive of the learning that was taking place in that room, both for them as community members and for me as their facilitator.
— Allegra Tepper
Building the muscle to feel comfortable talking about diversity and inclusion issues…requires constant practice and attention.
— Kavya Shankar
And finally, 80 percent of MBA2 facilitators surveyed mentioned unprompted that they appreciated that Pods gave them a stronger connection to MBA1s. And every single one of the MBA2s I interviewed also mentioned this as a highlight.
Going forward
Last winter, the Diversity Committee spent many hours combing over Pods feedback, working with the administration and the amazing staff from the Student Life Office, and revamping the Pods curriculum. Five objectives informed our work: Establish a common level of understanding about DE&I concepts, support students from marginalized communities to ensure they feel included in the GSB community, communicate that the GSB values DE&I as a holistic part of the student experience, foster community and trust among students, and facilitate learning across differences and engaging with difficult topics.
We proposed an arc of learning that integrates Pods, Engage (a half-day mandatory DE&I training during Week 1 that has been going on for 13 years), and Fitting In Standing Out (a student panel at the beginning of the year where second-year students give honest and varying opinions on what it takes to both fit in and stand out at the GSB). These changes are based on feedback that we received from both MBA1s and MBA2s about Pods and Engage.
One big change in the arc of learning is that Engage will be split in two, with the session in the fall focusing on increasing comfort with DE&I vocabulary, and the one in the winter digging into higher level concepts. Additionally, Pods will begin before Engage, with Fitting In Standing Out being the new Pods kickoff, so that trust and community can develop before diving into more difficult topics. Pods groups will be used to reflect on FISO and Engage sessions.
The Diversity Committee is also asking the administration to take on more of the work and help provide more comprehensive training for Pods facilitators (now called Pods Inclusion Ambassadors). As Wes Adams, co-leader of the BBSA, put it: “I love that students are showing that DEI is a priority through their leadership and engagement with Pods. But beyond this, I feel that it’s important for the administration to cement this as part of the MBA educational experience. Making it mandatory and providing budget this year was great, but Stanford has an opportunity to be a first mover and really institutionalize it. If the GSB wants to stick to its mantra and core value to drive change, I would hope we’d position ourselves at the forefront of these conversations and actions as an institution.”
Living a Life of Consequence
In two of my classes this year, “The Art of Self Coaching” and “Lives of Consequence,” we talked about the difference between living just a happy life and living a life of meaning. In her Atlantic article, “Meaning is Healthier than Happiness,” Emily Esfahani Smith ends with, “Does happiness lie in feeling good, as hedonists think, or in doing and being good, as Aristotle and his intellectual descendants, the virtue ethicists, think? From the evidence of this study, it seems that feeling good is not enough. People need meaning to thrive.”
Business school is inherently a hedonistic place. We are encouraged to self reflect, grow, and learn to become the best versions of ourselves. From international trips to the GSB Show to Beer Pong League, I lived the happiest of business school lives. And don’t get me wrong, I don’t regret those feel-good moments of seeing the world or dancing or singing or bonding with my classmates for a moment. But the thing that gave my GSB experience the most meaning, the thing I feel most proud of on the eve of my graduation, was creating GSB Pods with my seven amazing classmates. Seeing injustices in the world and finding a way to make a difference in the little corner of the world which you inhabit, leaving the GSB a little better, a little more inclusive, and a little more connected than I found it — to me, this is living a life of consequence.
